Draft Clonsilla Framework Plan?

wirecotton

Opinions?

https://consult.fingal.ie/en/consultation/draft-clonsilla-framework-plan#:~:text=This%20Framework%20Plan%20will%20guide,for%20existing%20and%20future%20residents.

daymobrew

Tell us your opinions first :-)

HMS Erebus

If it gets the same level of delivery as the one commissioned for Castleknock back in 2008 you can move straight to trash - seems to be zero accountability for putting plans in to action.

Instead they went with the 'stick Lidl in the Village and don't worry' model.

Castleknock Urban Strategy

HungoverMau5

I really like the plans! The biggest issue on Clonsilla Road is traffic, especially during schooltime hours. With the DART+ upgrade leading to the closure of the level crossings along the route, traffic will only be coming from the Clonsilla area, and with the traffic claming measures and other active travel schemes, it should get more people to walk and cycle to school.

I think that Clonsilla in 2025 is not the same place as it was in 2005, and with the rail line becoming a DART route soon, we should see more housing and more initiatives that look to reshape the village into a proper suburban town and not a sleepy village

wirecotton

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123061822#Comment_123061822

I've little to no faith in anything decent coming of it 😂. I'd imagine the Castlefield residents are delighted at the idea of turning their green area into a playground that can be set alight and graffitied…not to mention cutting down all the boundary trees to build a cycle lane. Not good at all

Gerlad

All this dependence on the upgrade of the line to DART. I'd be surprised if its up and running in 15 years

daymobrew

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123117242#Comment_123117242

Planning permission has been granted - that's a massive step.

ozmo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058389101/draft-clonsilla-framework-plan

Total land grab by Fingal of the poor people in Castlefield - Whose houses are not even part of the plan. I know people there, and they are very upset—they have to deal with a lot of antisocial behavior as it is and don’t want any of the hedgerows removed—and to add 3 playgrounds!! The one nearby in Coolmine was burned just weeks ago. Theres 3 other well guarded and equiped playgrounds. with parking, within 15 minutes walk. What consultant thinks it’s a good idea to have a playground right on the corner of a busy crossroads—opposite a busy shopping center and busy builder’s yard—and proudly state in the plans that there will be no railings…
Some of the trees on that line they want to remove are 300 years old and the old woods they want to cut through are home to hedgehogs, bats and squirrels.

wirecotton

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123153726#Comment_123153726

Hopefully the castlefield folks and their very valid objections are heard, there's no need for another playground or for cutting down any trees to make a cycle lane (that won't even be used anyway by 99% of the people who claim it's a great idea), the cycle lane will only be a great asset to the toerags looking for opportunities

daymobrew

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123154155#Comment_123154155

I would like a cycle lane to get between Clonsilla roundabout and Lidl and the graveyard. Drivers make it a scary road.

Maybe the road could be made one way for cars with a two way cycle lane. That would save the trees, hedgerows and all the animals.

wirecotton

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123154209#Comment_123154209

Agree with you and I would support and would like to see a design concept that caters to the local residents, trees, hedgerows and wildlife. A cycle lane done right would be great but forgive me….I've massive reservations about the council's intellectual ability to do things correctly.

The residents living in Castlefield especially near the boundary must be incensed. I certainly would be if I lived near the main road. As for the one way thing that was tried further up if I recall correctly up at kirkfield cottages twice only to be changed again to a two way system less than 2 later (money literally p***** away). This is all stuff that should have been considered and done right 25-years ago, there is too much of a sprawl now IMO and getting rid of green space isn't the solution.

Flinty997

Very poor planning for 50yrs. They've allowed ad hoc development which destroyed any village center made it concrete jungle

Then made no coherent road plan so it's feature less walls and no linked up cycle lanes or pedestrian routes.

No one wants to cycle. One reason is the routes do not link up. Theres also the canal Greenway being ignored behind it all.

They are building kellystown with no links back to clonsilla.

wirecotton

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123154937#Comment_123154937

100% also (going off topic a little) but have you seen what was done by the council to the little village green square in Lucan that had the trees and benches in it for years?

This might be wrong but someone was telling me that the eventual plan is to turn that little lucan square into some concrete plaza nonsense…..then have a cycle lane going through it that will eventually join both canals (Royal & Grand) together 😒

Biodiversity…….yeah right

Flinty997

I saw the building work wondering what was the plan.

Lucan is kinda ruined by the sheer volume of traffic. As is everywhere.

We need to move to that idea where we have central pedestrian / shopping areas, with orbital road routes that you park and walk in.

Just can't see any vision or method to what they are doing in clonsilla.

daymobrew

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123154996#Comment_123154996

I think that you are a bit wrong. The PDF with the plans for three public space developments don't seem to have bike lanes (and how would a bike lane in Lucan village join the canals that are good distance from that plaza?)

https://www.sdcc.ie/en/active-travel/villages-districts/lucan-village/lucan-village-enhancement-plans-feb-2025.pdf

wirecotton

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123156153#Comment_123156153

Yeah when I heard what the plan was it sounded a little too "grand", if I remember correctly the new plaza area in Lucan village (and this new bike lane) was to somehow feed into Sarsfield park and onwards from there towards the Grand Canal, I'll ask the person about it again who told me as they're from the area,

https://www.sdcc.ie/en/services/transport/active-travel/canal-loop-greenway/

They've a great track record the SDCC council in Lucan and the surrounding area, I think they've been building that swimming pool now for 10 years, if that canal project is a go it should be completed by the 4th millenium

ozmo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123154253#Comment_123154253

If anyone is from D15 - you could do them a huge favour and add an observation as such. Ive done one.

They were told they need at least 100 observations for Fingal to reconsider the plan - a lot of the plan is fine - clean up of village etc. But just to post to request leave that fantastic green space in the village as is and out of any plans, and leave the hedgerows, trees and wildlife alone - would be most apreciated by many.

Its free to post a message or observation as they call it.

https://consult.fingal.ie/en/node/35951/submissions

More info on this: https://sites.google.com/site/castlefieldwoods

🙂

wirecotton

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123158447#Comment_123158447

Hopefully it is reconsidered whether it reaches 100 posts or not.

I do wonder what area the "consultants" hired by Fingal who conceived this plan live in…….I'd imagine it aint D15

Sorry hard to edit my post as I'm reading the castlefield woods site (very well done btw) but my goodness 3 playgrounds and a "market"? Plenty of for sale signs going up if that happens I'd say

Former Former Former

There are a lot of good elements in the plan but it's completely OTT. Traffic calming will be welcomed by everyone and any sort of cycle infrastructure would be great.

But taking the green spaces away from the residents of Castlefield and turning them into civic amenity spaces is a massive precedent for the entire county and it's utterly mental. I presume the residents will fight it tooth and nail as well they should.

I've said it before but Fingal are incapable of devising any plan that does not wreak massive havoc on the environment and this one is no different, the number of trees and hedgrerows that will be cut down is massive. They have a weird view of the environment which is entirely centred on chainsaws and strimmers.

wirecotton

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123159128#Comment_123159128

100% agree and many of the folks wiedling those chainsaws and strimmers seem to be taking a life of frustration out of plants trees and hedgerows. I hope the residents come out on top in this because it simply shouldn't be allowed to happen.

Flinty997

Mental is it exactly.

Fatnacho

Obviously, in an ideal world, we should keep as many trees and hedges as possible. However, the hedgerows on the Castlefield side of the Clonsilla Rd and from the station down to Beechpark need to be scaled back. If you want to encourage people to walk, those pathways need to be widened for safety purposes. Pedestrians shouldn’t be expected to step onto the road if there’s a child on a bike or a buggy on the path as currently happens.
I’d rather have safe spaces for pedestrians and cyclists than keeping a few hundred metres of scrub.

Flinty997

They should have kept the trees and used them as divider between road and pedestrian and cycle track. Would have been lovely.

Instead as they always do they built up to the tree line or road line with no space left for future expansion.

They and (people on here) now want to slash and burn and create another concrete soulless space. Then wonder why it's becomes another unloved space.

If they can't see ugly you can't explain it to them.

wirecotton

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123159811#Comment_123159811

I understand the point on the narrow sidewalk path, but IMO we've enough space on the other side already to cater to bikes, walkers and runners all the way from the train station to St Mochtas.

Additionally there's the Royal Canal Greenway project which is meant to be the the magic answer that'll get everyone out walking and cycling. They tried that there in Leixlip lovely benches, lights and a repair station for bikes. I think the latter lasted 24 hours before it was vandalized

wirecotton

I just feel very sorry for the Castlefield residents it's shockingly bad IMO, it would ruin the estate

Larbre34

To be clear, there is no such threshold of 100 submissions, or any other number that obliges a reconsideration of any plan by the Council.

The Council executive must, under its statutory powers, reflect the content of the submissions in its report to Councillors and make those submissions individually available to them for review, with appropriate data protection redactions.

It will then be up to the Councillors to decide if concerns raised have been addressed, have not been addressed, cannot be addressed or should not be addressed, and how to proceed from there.

daymobrew

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123159963#Comment_123159963

When you say the "other side", do you mean the southern side of Clonsilla Road or are you suggesting widening the existing path inside Castlefield?

It's been 10 years since the the Royal Canal Greenway consultation and not one bit of work has been done. Fingal could have done Clonsilla to Kildare portion but chose to do nothing. What a waste. Meanwhile DCC is redoing portions in their area.

Furthermore the objections of residents of Lambourn prevent it from being accessible from residents there and those in Castlefield.

Flinty997

Is there some reason you'd want access through the middle Lambourne rather than either side of it.

Why they not make access a condition of any of the recent developments in the last decade.

daymobrew

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123161155#Comment_123161155

I suggest access from Lambourn to the Royal Canal Greenway to allow residents go for a walk on the greenway instead of having to go out onto Clonsilla Road to gain access. Access would also make it a shorter walk to the train station. And a shorter distance to LCC and Scoil Choilm schools (I've seen students crossing Porterstown level crossing). It would also make it easier for Castlefield residents get to the greenway.

There is an opening onto Weaver's Walk and I use that if I use the canal towpath to go to/from Lidl.

As for either side of Lambourn, it would be useful if there was pedestrian access between Lambourn and Weaver's Walk.

Similarly I think it would be useful if there was pedestrian access between The Village and the Aldi site (without such access it'll be a 1km walk).

Yes, access should have been a condition of recent developments - I suggested this in my submission for the current Development Plan (I said that boundaries should not have walls so that adjacent developments would naturally have access). There's so many "so near and yet so far" situations where walls force pedestrians and cyclists to take much longer routes and this results in more people choosing to drive.

Former Former Former

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123162233#Comment_123162233

I suggest access from Lambourn to the Royal Canal Greenway to allow residents go for a walk on the greenway instead of having to go out onto Clonsilla Road to gain access. 

No one in Lambourn would want this, just like the residents in every other estate don't want direct access to the greenway.

And this is the problem with applying modern urban planning to long-established suburban estates, it might be what the manual says we should do but it isn't what the residents want, so it's not clear why it's rammed down their throats. This Clonsilla plan is a perfect example of it.

Flinty997

I get the Permeability or connectivity aspect to encourage the free movement of pedestrians and cyclists.

But isn't this for the residents to decide.