Naming conventions for train stations and lines

riddlinrussell

If I wanted to get to Glasnevin Cemetery after Dart+ and Metrolink are done, what station would I want to get off public transport at? (Let's assume I'm getting either Dart or Metro)

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123174927#Comment_123174927

Glasnevin (on either mode) and get a bus about three stops up, or walk.

riddlinrussell

Sounds like a sensible enough name for the station so, given the potential for alternatives to mislead (Phibsborough) or be too geographically specific (Cross Guns), though I don’t really have an issue with that as an alternative

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123175034#Comment_123175034

Glasnevin Cemetary is partially in Finglas, though.

It's not a useful tool to determine where Glasnevin "is".

The proposed station is very close to the original Glasnevin station, and in the area originally known as such, but an area that isn't always seen as being Glasnevin anymore weirdly.

riddlinrussell

I don't see how the council jurisdictions has any impact on anyone who is trying to get a train there (esp tourists)

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123175053#Comment_123175053

Finglas is in Dublin City. Finglas is a place.

FingAL is a county and Glasnevin - all definitions thereof - is not in it.

loco_scolo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123175039#Comment_123175039

Where was the old Glasnevin Station? Didn't realize there was one. It's becoming clear to me that there isn't a correct answer on this one. Where exactly "Glasnevin" is located, is not clear. There isn't an obvious village center, and a very large area can, or does, claim to be Glasnevin.

That being said, I stick to my view that the name is misleading, as it's on the periphery of a much larger area.

I would suggest the following Dart/Metro station names:

• Glasnevin Junction or Cross Guns Glasnevin

• Glasnevin Botanic or Griffith-Botanic or Glasnevin Griffith

• Collins Avenue DCU / Collins Avenue West (the avenue is 4km long)

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123175453#Comment_123175453

Eatyard area of the Bernard Shaw pub has the tiny remains of the old station

Citizen Six

Glasnevin Junction makes sense. It’ll be an interchange station, but also retain the original name of the rail section there, which most people wouldnt know about anyway.

McAlban

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123175453#Comment_123175453

An Usual Island Platform Station Just East of the Bridge on Prospect Road. The Original red brick Station Building still exists in Eatyards Beergarden and is used for Storage IIRC.

Citizen Six

Picture of the building from Eiretrains, taken from the tennis courts.

gjim

Interesting that the name of the bridge on that old map is Westmoreland Bridge. Where did “Cross Guns” come from, I wonder?

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123178017#Comment_123178017

This should help…..

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2056559237/placename-phibsboro-cross-guns-bridge

plodder

One way of resolving competing claims to station names would be to name (some at least) after nearby landmarks, that people might want to visit. Eg I think I suggested before that "Botanic Gardens" would be a much better name for the planned "Griffith Park" station on Metrolink. The overriding consideration should be utility and information value. Agree with the OP about Connolly and Heuston as well. You have to put yourself in the shoes of the people who use the services, and who actually need the information like tourists and visitors, not so much commuters who are using them every day. The name of the city/town should be in all mainline station names. You can have slightly different names for the same station when it's part of a local network as well. Eg. you have "München-Ost" (East) as one of the mainline stations in Munich. The same station on the local network is just called "Ostbahnhof"

Sam Russell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123182969#Comment_123182969

On the Red Luas line there is HOSPITAL and JAMES, plus MUSEUM.

Handy, but James is a hospital, as is Hospital but a long distance apart.

Museum is next to the prison, but Prison is unlikely to be the name of a stop.

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123183188#Comment_123183188

I’m not sure what prison you’re thinking of?

Museum is right beside the entrance to Collins Barracks which is now part of the National Musuem.

The nearest prison is on the north side of Arbour Hill which is an 8 minute walk away on a completely different street?

plodder

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123183188#Comment_123183188

Yeah, good examples. Regular users won't even see it as an issue but what was wrong with "James Hospital", "Tallaght Hospital"? Murphy's law would dictate that someone has probably hopped on the Red line for James' Hospital, but ended up in Tallaght by mistake. Museum is also ambiguous. Why not even Museum (Collins)? Is space really in such short supply on the signage?

Sam Russell

Arbour Hill was originally an army prison and part of Collins Barracks, formally Royal Barracks.

There are more museums than that one and it is difficult to see why it has that particular name.

KrisW1001

It should be "Tallaght Hospital", but St James's is a parish in Dublin and not just the name of the hospital, so that should stay as is. (The lands now occupied by the Guinness brewery were named for being on the edge of this parish).

"Museum" is not a problem. This is the largest of the three sites within Dublin, and the only one reachable by Luas - it's unlikely to cause much confusion (signage at the gate, which is right at the luas stop, directs people to the other two collections). If Kildare St or Merrion St get a tramline, then it could be renamed, but it's fine for now.

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123183692#Comment_123183692

Arbour Hill prison was (when a military facility) and is now (as a State prison) on the northern side of Arbour Hill Sam. At least accept you’re wrong on that. It is not beside the LUAS stop.

The barracks have housed the museum for almost 30 years (since 1997), which I think is what most people would associate with it.

Sam Russell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123184045#Comment_123184045

I am taking licence in that names appear random.

Some are named after individuals, some after nearby places or streets (or maybe not), and some after nearby functions - like Hospital because it is near a hospital - while another one actually running through a hospital is named after James (whoever he was) while the hospital is actually named after Saint James the apostle.

Some of the names are a mystery where the original name is lost in the fog of long forgotten history. I am thinking of Limerick Junction which is not in Limerick City or County Limerick but in County Tipp. Why call it that? Are other stations called 'somewhere junction' because it is a change point for passengers heading for 'somewhere'. Moyasta Junction was a junction on the West Clare Railway which separated into Kilkee and Kilrush. It could have been named after either destination but was not.

A bit of mild absurdity in the process needs little exaggeration to make a point.

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123185647#Comment_123185647

No Sam, frankly you’re just posting nonsense.

spacetweek

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123185712#Comment_123185712

Agreed, I don’t see what is hard to grasp. There are many things you could name a station after. As for railway junctions, surely it’s obvious that Limerick Junction is because the Cork line splits for Cork and Limerick at that point? Manulla Junction is named after the nearby village of that name. And so on.

plodder

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123200068#Comment_123200068

But, they aren't the only junctions on the network. Others are just called after the places they are in, like Portartlington. Limerick junction should have been called Tipperary imo. Interestingly, Howth junction is now called Howth Junction/Donaghmede. If it were opened for the first time today, they would have just called it Donaghmede, I'd say.

KrisW1001

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123203985#Comment_123203985

Yes it would be “Donaghmede” if opened now, but in fairness, when Howth Junction was built, "Donaghmede" simply didn’t exist. All of the housing near to this station dates from the 1950s and ’60s. Here’s what the area still looked like long after the Howth branch opened (the station is in the centre of this map):

“Limerick Junction” wasn’t called “Tipperary” because Tipperary town had, and still has, its own station (info here: Tipperary Station).

Sam Russell

On the London Underground, Aldersgate was renamed Barbican to reduce confusion with Aldgate, but also because of the opening of the Barbican Centre.

So names can change if there is reason and pressure to reduce confusion.

plodder

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123204103#Comment_123204103

My bad about Tipperary. Maybe Tipperary Central, and Tipperary West? 🤔 No, I'm not being serious. That would not be a good idea. But, I still would have picked a local townland for the name, rather than Limerick junction.

I only just learned that you can't travel to/from Manulla jct (as in enter or leave the station there). I wonder was that always the case? If so, then that should have been called Ballina Junction maybe, as the relevance of the location is moot. I agree with your point on Howth jct as well. That's why I said "if it were opened now".

By the way, I still don't agree about "MUSEUM" on the Luas. Whether it's the largest or most important national museum site isn't the point (was also news to me, as I'd have assumed Kildare St was the main one). Or even that it's the only museum on the Luas is not relevant either. The Luas is only one component of the city's transport system.

plodder

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123204256#Comment_123204256

It's not just about reducing confusion, which is important. It's about facilitating people other than regular users. Lots of people make occasional trips to the Barbican. It just makes sense to have the nearby station named after it.

Sam Russell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123204700#Comment_123204700

The nearest train stations to the Barbican are Liverpool Street and Farringdon plus St Pauls and Moorgate. Barbican Station is not the closest.

So people looking for the Barbican have plenty of choice. Many tube stations are very close together but on different lines. Some are very close on the same line. It is quite common for people on the tube to change lines to get to their preferred stop and not realising that their original line has a closer stop to their destination.

Peregrinus

My bad about Tipperary. Maybe Tipperary Central, and Tipperary West? 🤔 No, I'm not being serious. That would not be a good idea. But, I still would have picked a local townland for the name, rather than Limerick junction.

Limerick Junction is in the townland of Ballykisteen. Be honest; you;ve never heard of Ballykisteen, have you? Calling the station "Ballykisteen" would not be helpful. Whereas calling it "Limerick Junction" is quite helpful; it will dawn on even the more slow-witted travellers that Limerick Junction might be the place where you change trains if you want to go to Limerick.

Remember what the function of the station is; it's to serve passengers who want to go to Limerick. While it also serves people who want to travel to or from Ballykisteen, such people are few. Almost nobody who uses Limerick Junction station would be benefitted in any way from knowing where it is.