Naming conventions for train stations and lines

System

This discussion was created from comments split from: Cork Area Commuter Rail (CACR).

DylanQuestion

Small complaint but I get the train a lot and it always annoys me that the four main Dublin stations are referred to as their names. For example, the announcements on the train say "Heuston to Cork", and the plaques at the stations just say "Heuston" or "Connolly", while Kent says "Cork Kent". Same with the signs at intermediary stations saying "towards Heuston" and "towards Cork". It's such a minor thing, but I never understand why Dublin is afforded the luxury of it while the other cities and named train stations aren't. One rule for the capital, another rule for us, I guess..

The only argument I think they can make is that Dublin is the only city with multiple train stations in the city boundary. The other cities just have a station each in their respectie city centres. I really hope when the new city stations are added at Blarney, Blackpool, Tivoli and Dunkettle that they drop the Cork before Kent - given all four of those stations are already in Cork. Again, minor thing but.. annoying.

spacetweek

The way naming of lines is done in other countries is that light rail and metro is usually colour coded, and systems like the DART are given letters (like in NYC).

So Drogheda-Bray could be A, Drogheda-Docklands B etc.

Charles Babbage

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122583566#Comment_122583566

I suppose symbols are out of the question

Economics101

Are the NTA gone a bit mad? What's wrong with just numbers for bus routes? Are all the prefixes such as S, N, L, etc of any real use?

alias no.9

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122577908#Comment_122577908

Just take Dart North Southbound, when you want to get into town from Malahide and Dart South Northbound to get from Greystones into town but just remember that Dart North Southbound becomes Dart South Southbound on the Loop Line and Dart South Northbound becomes Dart North Northbound on the Loop Line. Couldn't be simpler.

specialbyte

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122583743#Comment_122583743

They have not gone mad. The prefixes are super helpful.

A-H are the high frequency spines into and across the city centre. Almost all have a frequency of less than 10 minutes on the core sections. Some have frequency of every 3 minutes at peak. It's like the Luas you just turn up and hop on a bus without checking the timetable.

N, W, S are the northern, western and southern orbitals around the city. Think Dun Laoghaire to Tallaght or Tallaght to Lucan.

X are the express buses.

L are the local buses. They are generally short routes that connect you to your local town like Dun Laoghaire, Dundrum, Tallaght or Swords. They do not go to the city centre.

Buses with just a number like 26, 60 go into the city centre (generally) on routes not covered by the high frequency spines. They tend to have lower frequency than the lettered spines

So yes, knowing just some really simple information many people can just look at a bus route and roughly know how often will the bus come and where it is going.

Peregrinus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122575602#Comment_122575602

Nitpick: Gare du Nord and Gare de l'Est are not so called because they are in the north and east of Paris respectively — in fact, they're pretty much right beside one another, in the 10th arrondissement — but because they are the stations from which you get trains to the north of France and the east of France respectively. If you're on a train travelling to these stations, the names give you no clue as to what part of Paris you will be deposited in; if you're in Paris looking for these stations, the names give no clue as to where you will find them.

The Gare de Lyon is so called because it's where you go if you want to get a train to Lyon. The Gare de Luxembourg is not where you go to get a train to Luxembourg — those trains depart from the Gare de l'Est — but it is beside the Jardin du Luxembourg, a well-known Paris landmark. And the Gare d'Austerlitz does not offer services to Austerlitz, which is in the Czech Republic, but to Bordeaux. Why is it not called the Gare de Bordeaux? God knows.

Tl;dr: Paris rail terminus names are all over the place. Dublin's are a model of consistency by comparison. They are all named after historical figures associated with the 1916 Rising (Pearse, Connolly, Heuston) and for places adjacent to them (Pearse St; Connolly St; Sean Heuston Bridge).

JohnC.

This seems like an issue for people who like to overthink things and will make absolutely no difference to everyone else.

Even the much vaunted Japanese can have odd stuff. Like how Shinagawa Station is in Minato, not Shinagawa. And it made absolutely no difference when I used it. It did it's job, which is what's important.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122572765#Comment_122572765

I can't say for definite on signage but I'm sure in places like Thurles it says "towards Dublin and Towards Cork" but any time I get the train the announcement says "Heuston station Dublin" and my ticket says "Dublin Heuston".

Are people talking about it only being called Heuston when you are actually in Dublin ?

cantalach

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122583960#Comment_122583960

I think folks are referring to things like the automated announcements on the train. “This is the. 14. Hundred. Hours. Service to. Heuston Station. Serving…”

e.g. https://youtu.be/PtNaisGXmaI?feature=shared

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122584012#Comment_122584012

I must keep a listen out next time. I was sure they now said Heuston station Dublin.

Itssoeasy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122571119#Comment_122571119

It might have changed but in Kent station when I’ve been getting a train on the Cobh/Midleton line, I’ve heard station announcements listing out the stops for the cork to Dublin train, and it lists the stations out and says “Heuston station, Dublin” as the final stop.

icdg

At one point in the past, at least on the 29000s, the announcement was for “Dublin Connolly”. They deliberately changed it to “Connolly Station” at some point, I’m not sure why. However the name “Dublin Connolly” hasn’t ever appeared on signs at the station, at least since the 1980s, it’s always been “Connolly Station”.

cantalach

The point here being that everyone is supposed to just know that Heuston Station is in Dublin. Consider the Dublin bound visitor with poor English who changes train in Mallow or Limerick Junction and then hears an announcement saying that the train is going to Heuston Station. Their ear is hearing “blah blah blah” and hoping to discern “Dublin” but doesn’t.

cantalach

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122584043#Comment_122584043

I suspect it is a bit inconsistent but, as you can hear, in that clip I linked it just says “Heuston Station”.

spillit67

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122577372#Comment_122577372

I agree with preferring names that show off a bit of character but let’s be honest, recent “namings” have become political hobby horses.

cantalach

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122584055#Comment_122584055

This recording suggests otherwise. The English announcement says “Pearse Station” but then “Dublin Connolly” which is weirdly inconsistent. And more inconsistent again is that the Irish announcement uses “Stáisiún Uí Chonghaile” (Connolly Station).

https://youtube.com/shorts/iHEdd8C3Lag?feature=shared

icdg

That’s not a 29000, it’s a 22000 ICR.

And no they’re not the same! The format of announcements various widely between different rolling stock…there’s no “Iarnrod Eireann welcomes you on board…” on the the 29000s.

csirl

Names should have the location - something permanent.

Not like the Luas, where the Blackhorse stop is called after a pub that no longer exists!

whisky_galore

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122583905#Comment_122583905

Gare Du Nord, Gare de l'Est were originally built by and named for the old pre SNCF railway companies. Austerlitz is named after the nearby Quai d'Austerlitz, in turn named after the battle.

loyatemu

I really don't see the need for line numbers on the Dart - the destination tells you where the train is going, it's not like there's a load of alternative routings.

Peregrinus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122584582#Comment_122584582

The Gare du Nord was build by the Chemin de Fer du Nord company, right enough but Gare de l'Est was built by the Compagnie du Chemin de Fer de Paris à Strasbourg. All of the principle termini in Paris predate the SNCF and were build by different companies; that's partly why the naming conventions are not consistent.

But of course the same is true of Dublin; the termini were all built before anybody thought of CIÉ. Pearse was built by the Dublin and Kingstown Railway and was orginally called "Westland Row Station"; Heuston was built by the GSWR and was called "Kingsbridge Station"; Connolly was built by the Dublin and Drogheda Railway and was originally called "Dublin Station", despite the fact that there were already other stations in Dublin. It was renamed "Amiens St Station" ten years after it opened. Broadstone, now closed, was built by the MGWR; Harcourt St, also closed, by the Dublin, Wicklow and Wexford Railway Company; and North Wall, still open (just) for freight but closed to passengers since 1922, by the LNWR.

Despite the diversity of railway companies, the naming convention is pretty uniform; all of the termini were named to indicate where in the city they were, although it took about 10 years for the Dublin and Drogheda Railway to come to that particular party.

PlatformNine

I dont see why they shouldn't be named, as long as both the name and destination are shown. For regular rail users it might not mean much but for newer or occasional users, or especially tourists it would be helpful. Now that assumes the naming system is easy to understand, but I definetly don't think it could hurt the network. Honestly DART SW, W, N, and S, aren't too bad for names, just maybe if they went with that option having a name for services between Malahide/Howth and Bray/Greystones, to seperate them from north and south services terminating at connolly. (at least its my understanding not all services would operate the full length?)

DrivingSouth

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122583836#Comment_122583836

What are the P routes? Peak?

If so what is the difference between X and P?

Do X have fewer stops?

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122587444#Comment_122587444

Exactly that.

P = Peak only routes that serve all stops.

X = Express routes.

DylanQuestion

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122583960#Comment_122583960

I was in Kent the other day and the announcement actually said "Dublin Hueston". I looked closer and the large digital displays showing up coming trains show Dublin (Hueston), as does the digital display next to the train. On the train's external digital display, it says Dublin (Heuston). In the older trains, the voice over now says Dublin Heuston, while the newer trains say Heuston Station. The signs at intermediate stations like Thurles say "towards Cork" and "towards Heuston". The blue plaques in the station all say "Hueston Station". Not one of the Irish translations include Dublin, except on the old trains when they pull into the station. They all just say Heuston Station in Irish. On the digital displays in the commuter stations up to Portaloise it says Heuston Station only. On the Cork commuter stations, it only says Cork or Cork (Kent), never just Kent.

Meanwhile, for Kent, it's all Cork (Kent) on digital displays in stations, while blue plaques say Cork Kent. The digital displays outside and inside the trains just say Cork, except for when you just pull into Cork and the announcement says Kent Station Cork.

Basically, there seems to be zero rhyme or reason as to which is used or not. I'm also surprised that the Irish isn't the same as the English. I wonder if there is some law that is breaking

OisinCooke

Been thinking about a few station renamings recently and I just thought id share a few thoughts.

Heuston West could be completely renamed to Islandbridge. My thinking is, it’s much too big a walk away from Heuston Station to provide a reliable passenger transfer, and naming it after the area it’s in could attract more people to the station than otherwise…

Would renaming Castleknock to Blanchardstown have a similar effect on ridership…? It’s only 500m from the Main Street and could arguably be renamed anyway as it is closer to there than it actatlly is to Castleknock.

And finally I never really understood why Kishogue wasn’t called Clonburris ahead of the brand new giant development going in there…

jlang

Calling the existing Castleknock station Blanchardstown would lead to more confusion rather than less. To many people who are not from Blanchardstown village or nearby, the word Blanchardstown means "Blanchardstown Centre" which is definitely not near the station. And people who are from nearby already know where the station is. Them not using it already is more a factor of frequency, routing, connections, parking, etc and DART+ might help in time with some of that.

Hotblack Desiato

Tl;dr: Paris rail terminus names are all over the place. Dublin's are a model of consistency by comparison. They are all named after historical figures associated with the 1916 Rising (Pearse, Connolly, Heuston) and for places adjacent to them (Pearse St; Connolly St; Sean Heuston Bridge).

Wha'?

I've lived in Dublin all my life and never heard of a Connolly Street.

Apple and Google haven't heard of it either.

L1011

As well as the Connolly Street clanger, Pearse Station didn't exit to Pearse Street until about a decade ago and, as quite a long street, it is really sub-par to use as a station locator too.