Etiquette while commuting on public trasport

Charles Babbage

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122691497#Comment_122691497

they are always willing to try and prevent motorists reaching their destination , but not willing to coerce gurriers.

Burt Renaults

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122691655#Comment_122691655

It's about making it quicker and easier for people to get to their destination.

Charles Babbage

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122692135#Comment_122692135

Which assumes that people the bus suits are more important than others. If you proposed similar discrimination against black people then there would be no end of complaint.

Burt Renaults

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122692141#Comment_122692141

Well, that escalated.

The Mathematician

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122692141#Comment_122692141

No, what it does assume is that 80 people on a bus are more important than one person in a car.

Hotblack Desiato

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122692141#Comment_122692141

What a ludicrous post.

Yes of course a bus carrying up to 80 people should have priority over cars often carrying one person. If the car occupants are unhappy about that they can always take the bus.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122691655#Comment_122691655

What measures were taken that prevented motorists from reaching their destination?

Charles Babbage

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122692225#Comment_122692225

This is thread about behaviour on public transport, and I stated, as at least one previous poster had done, that making public transport attractive was part of the package. You then came along and implied that people should be made use public transport by restricting other modes, whether public transport was attractive or not.

It is a simple point; providing a comfortable seat, coming on time, having a proper temperature on the vehicle, preventing anti social behaviour, these are all elements in encouraging people to use public transport. There are other threads to bash motorists on, so back on topic.

Burt Renaults

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122694661#Comment_122694661

As long as they're impeded by private cars, they won't come on time. They can neither climb over them nor drive through them. As a daily commuter, I would always choose a quick, unimpeded trip on an uncomfortable seat, or no seat at all, over a long one on an air-conditioned luxury coach. Also, anti-social behaviour is rarely an issue during busier times of day.

The only way to make public transport attractive is to make it as quick as possible. You cannot have this discussion without addressing the elephant in the room. You call it "bashing motorists" - I call it addressing the reality that buses don't have enough priority over them.

_Kaiser_

Buses are slow, wandering, overcrowded as it is at peak times (without trying to force more people onto them), filled with behaviour ranging from mildly irritating to outright dangerous.

In Cork the reliability has gotten so bad as to cause street protests a few weekends ago. What was the response? Reduce the number of services! 🙄

They will never be an attractive option to anyone with a viable alternative. Rather than address that though, the approach is to remove or actively disincentivise that alternative so everyone can suffer together.

These are the facts. The anti-car lobby that makes up most of this particular forum can dispute and whataboutery that all they wish, but that's not going to change it.

It's the option for those who have time to waste, who are willing to put up with the above mentioned nonsense and behaviour, and who "need" to be on the "right side" of a populist cause. That's fair enough, but at least own that.

For motorists it'll never be a better option unless by making driving worse.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122698460#Comment_122698460

Have you considered speaking for yourself instead of pretending that you're a spokesperson for motorists?

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122698460#Comment_122698460

Can I ask you a question?

When did you last use the bus service in Dublin?

Also did you regularly use it for your commute, and if so when was that?

Zebra3

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122698460#Comment_122698460

Wait until you find out about the behaviour of those in cars and how many people they kill each year.

_Kaiser_

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122698504#Comment_122698504

Last used it 6 months ago. Waited about 40 minutes for a service - the 27 - that back in the day wasn't much better off peak . Still wandering, still slow with too many stops, still filled with people you'd not ordinarily want to spend time with but now with added phone noise!

I spent 30 years using public transport in Dublin (up to the mid 2000s), including routes like the 27 and 39 back when they were Cityswift and high frequency. Commuter rail and DART services that were overcrowded and frequently delayed - including a 10 minute delay on the tracks outside of Connolly. The number of times I ended up stuck in Pearse for an hour in the evening because of delayed DART services was ridiculous.

My sister still uses the bus daily and it takes her two buses and twice as long to get a few km than it would in my car. Plus she gets the joy of being harassed by junkies looking for change while she waits among other such highlights.

I have to commute into Dublin weekly again in recent times, but despite the fact it takes me an hour and a half to get there (half motorway, half city traffic), I'd still rather that than dealing with Dublin public transport and its clientele.

_Kaiser_

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122698594#Comment_122698594

Oh please! Accidents while tragic will unfortunately always be an issue so long as humans are involved - and that's across everything.

Irrelevant to the post you quoted.

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122698610#Comment_122698610

Clearly you haven’t used it regularly in almost 20 years then.

Every corridor has direct routes that do not “wander” and have done since Network Direct back in 2010.

Please stop peddling this nonsense.

I’m assuming you’re talking about the northside section of the 27?

The 27 diverts around Coolock to serve the estates there - are you suggesting that those people don’t deserve a bus service?

The 15 provides a direct service along the Malahide Road.

We now have far more orbital routes that avoid the city centre and provide significantly greater connectivity.

You can’t expect a direct bus to meet everyone’s requirements - public transport can only do so far, but recounting experience from 20 years ago as being relevant today is pushing it.

Your anecdote about junkies is nothing to do with public transport but more to do with society in general I would suggest.

I don't understand why they can't plaster things about not playing music/tiktok on your phone all over the place on them.

It actually seems like the people doing it don't realise there's anything wrong with it.

The worst is the parents giving their kids tablets at 8 in the morning.

_Kaiser_

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122698654#Comment_122698654

I haven't used it primarily because I don't live in Dublin anymore, but anytime that I have in that time it's just reminded me why I drive and that I should have just driven on that occasion as well. That's across buses and LUAS (although the latter is at least more frequent).

Buses have their place absolutely, but not if you have a better option or value your time or comfort (at all) which was my point.

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122698674#Comment_122698674

I’m sorry but you have repeatedly posted here that buses wander around unnecessarily, and that simply isn’t true, and hasn’t been for over a decade.

The addition of additional and more direct orbital routes in Dublin is now making public transport an option for far more journeys than before.

The notion that the bus service is going to be slower for journeys into and out of the city centre than driving is just not true for most journeys.

Real time info means that you don’t have to stand at a bus stop waiting.

There have been giant leaps in the quality of public transport since the mid-2000s, particularly in the last five years, and to base your argument on experience from prior to the mid-2000s, or one random day, is nonsense.

Sure of course there’s a lot more to do and that’s what BusConnects expanded network and infrastructure investment in core bus corridors will help with.

The Connecting Ireland programme is delivering the biggest expansion of bus services across Ireland in decades. It’s making a real difference in rural Ireland where new or improved services have been delivered. Record numbers of people are now using public transport all across the country. But hey they must all be wrong and you must be right!

Also I think I have to also comment on your reference to Cork in the earlier post. The bus company in Cork is short staffed currently due to the industry wide recruitment problems.

Rather than continuing to cancel buses randomly every day, they are introducing a temporary timetable that they can deliver. I think that people there would prefer a timetable that is delivered rather than the random cancellations that they are suffering at present.

It’s not a good situation but I would argue it’s better to be realistic rather than fictional.

Zebra3

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122698615#Comment_122698615

Accidents? There are very few accidents caused by motorists.

You had a go at the behaviour of bus users while wanting to bury the behaviour of killers on our roads.

I’d suggest shame on you, but it seems unlikely you have any.

_Kaiser_

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122698976#Comment_122698976

Hysteria and hyperbole don't make your argument any stronger, nor does nonsense about shame.

You don't like cars or motorists. I get it.

Still irrelevant to my post though

_Kaiser_

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122698774#Comment_122698774

You're still completely missing my point.

Buses are simply not an attractive alternative to someone who has a better option. The slow, unreliable, and antisocial nature of them will never trump the flexibility, availability, and comfort of the car.

The only way it can compete is by handicapping the car - reduction in lanes, reduced parking availability or higher charges etc.

You may say that my experience is no longer valid, however there's enough posts on this and other threads describing situations and experiences to the contrary that I'm pretty confident that not much has really changed.

My own admittedly sporadic experience certainly doesn't inspire me to use it more and I'm exactly the type of person who should be convinced (not coerced I add!) - but the public transport option would still involve a significant drive, parking/park and ride, a luas trip and a walk to the office.

At a minimum it would take the same length of time vs my current direct drive (I just looked it up), but that's not including wait times, crowding and likely standing for most of the trip, additional costs for the park and ride, and then having a walk at the end as well.

No thanks. I would rather sit in my big, comfortable, climate controlled, and solitary motor (it's a big 3 litre diesel too - I know, I'm the devil to some!) with my choice of music or none (not some randomers phone blaring at me), and with the flexibility to take alternative faster routes if I need to.

The only way that I might be forced to change is if parking became an issue (I have onsite parking) or the commute time increased significantly (it's on the threshold of what I'll accept at the moment because it's not every day), but in such a scenario I'm more likely to just change jobs to something that suits my drive better than switch to the "alternatives".

As I said though, there's a place for buses and public transport for sure - but it'll always be secondary/lesser for those with better options.

Hotblack Desiato

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122698460#Comment_122698460

They are slow because of cars clogging up our streets.

They are overcrowded because of cars clogging up our streets. The same fleet of buses could deliver many more services a day if they were not so slowed down - by cars.

Your posts are a great argument for congestion charging.

Dial Hard

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122698674#Comment_122698674

I have a car and value my time greatly, but I just can't justify the expense of parking in Dublin City Centre four days a week, which is how much I'm required to be in the office.

I don't mind the bus at all at the weekend, if I'm heading to a match or show or into town for whatever reason. The daily commute, though, is a hellscape of phones on speaker, dopes bashing into everyone with their massive bags and people who insist on standing when there are seats either upstairs or down the back and block the middle doors for everyone.

Oh, and for those who seem to think the blasting phones thing is a uniquely Irish behaviour, I can assure you it's not. I was in Milan for a few days the other week and every second person on the tram was doing the same thing.

_Kaiser_

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122699798#Comment_122699798

What you describe in your daily bus experience is exactly the same sort of nonsense I put up with for 30 years (minus the phones - though I'd forgotten about all the idiots crowding around the stairs and front part of the bus making it a pain to either get off the bus before the driver would sail past the stop, or get on in the first place).

Personally if I was told I had to be in the office - especially a city centre office - 4 days a week, I'd be moving on. I'm already considering it at just 2 days as it is. My role is such that I can be effective from anywhere as proven long before Covid. Half of my current team is offshore anyway, and I get less done in the office as it is because of distractions and lack of privacy for sensitive calls etc.

_Kaiser_

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122699649#Comment_122699649

Which was also my point - the only way the bus can actually compete as an option is by handicapping the car.

It still wouldn't address the behaviours described by Dial Hard though.

No thanks. I put up with that nonsense for 30 years. That was more than enough and not much has changed.

LXFlyer

What people experience can vary significantly from one route to another.

The likes of the 13, 27, 40, G1 and G2 in Dublin are pretty obvious candidates for potential problems given the social problems that some of the communities that they serve suffer from.

But to judge the entire public transport system based on certain routes is a nonsense. I get a seat every morning at 07:00 on my bus, and yes it’s busy but it’s also quiet, I can listen to the radio in peace, and I don’t see anti-social behaviour.

The problem is that the bad things are what get reported, and not the thousands of journeys that take place every day without incident.

Akrasia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122428359#Comment_122428359

The last mile works both ways, its rare to find parking right outside the place you need to get to

Akrasia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122699141#Comment_122699141

Car use, especially if its single occupancy, is almost by definition anti social. I drive a car but would much prefer to take public transport if the option was available. Luckily my kids are old enough now that they can walk on their own from school, and our town is finally beginning to introduce an actual bus service so I'll be looking forward to ditching the car for more and more journeys as time goes on.

Glaceon

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122687053#Comment_122687053

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122687124#Comment_122687124

I was one of them just yesterday. I have a bad knee so I can't stand for long periods without pain.