Deposit return scheme (recycling) - Part 2

bog master

https://www.independent.ie/business/irish/bonus-pay-for-uisce-eireann-staff-rose-17pc-to-1057m-last-year-annual-report-reveals/a1870741801.html

We best hope our fearless leaders in ReTurn don't see this!

jj880

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122316711#Comment_122316711

Dont be silly.

Re-Turn is a not for profit company 👀.

Tony EH

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122316711#Comment_122316711

Imagine how high your water bill would be now if people hadn't protested against the privatisation of our system.

_Kaiser_

The mental gymnastics being exercised here to justify this scam is nuts! FFS I even saw a post suggesting people should buy Coke tablets and mix them in their own bottles!!

It really is astonishing how some people will go through extraordinary lengths to prostrate themselves on the altar of "doing the right thing" - so long as they can be seen doing so of course! There's a real NEED in some for that validation and approval - something most evident during the Covid "crisis".

The only thing more annoying and frustrating than schemes like this is the inevitable bunch that will line up and pat themselves on the back while they're taken advantage of. Not only that but they'll loudly proclaim how great it is and criticise anyone who doesn't just follow blindly.

We already had and still have an effective domestic recycling process which has not only been undermined by this nonsense, but for which people will pay more as a result too. If they wanted to address litter elsewhere, all that was really needed is more bins in public spaces or at least stop removing those that remain.

This isn't about the "environment" or changing habits. It's about enriching yet another bunch of wealthy people at the expense of the ordinary public - something which is working quite well thank you very much! Oh sure, you can claim back your own money but we'll make you jump through as many hoops as we think we'll get away with to make it a chore and hope you'll just give up instead.

If some can't see that then they really aren't paying attention to how things work in this country.

jj880

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122318530#Comment_122318530

Great post. Virtue signalling limelight chasers are a bizarre phenomenon especially when its obvious we're all being taken for mugs. I lean toward willful ignorance as regards those who proclaim they "dont understand" or refuse to discuss the glaring gombeenery at every stage of Re-Turn. It gets to a point there has to be a vested interest somewhere. No-one is that thick.

BorneTobyWilde

Just got rid of two refuse sacks of cans, all accepted, 45 euro returned. And I didn't purchase any of those cans/bottles

BlueSkyDreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122318530#Comment_122318530

You also are not getting your money back from the cost of the product purchased.

You are getting the cost of the recyling charge back, if you decide to recycle.

kabakuyu

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122318616#Comment_122318616

Were u as the yanks say"dumpster diving"?

Gloomtastic!

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122318616#Comment_122318616

@ https://www.boards.ie/profile/_Kaiser_

How many of them would have gone to landfill? We have to raise our recycling levels. How would you suggest we do it?

BlueSkyDreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122318660#Comment_122318660

That is a problem unnortunatley.

People rooting through bins looking for recyclables and leaving a mess on the streets as they scatter the litter/break bags.

Unintended consequence of the scheme, which no doubt will hit poorer areas harder.

BorneTobyWilde

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122318660#Comment_122318660

No, they just fall into my possession . some friends /family can't be bothered, a can here, a bottle there, soon two big bags are full.

Quantum Erasure

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122318236#Comment_122318236

Who do you think is paying for it now, or where do you think the money is coming from?

zell12

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122320347#Comment_122320347

..

c2r

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122227177#Comment_122227177

Agreed with this - I've had problems a few times at the Dunnes on the retail park in Dundalk with the machines both being out of order and ended up going to tesco instead, where it's inside and much more visible.

The retailers aren't purposely going to want this, as people will visit the shops where the machines are more likely to be kept in working order

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122320415#Comment_122320415

You have the option to go to a different store in same area. There's a single RVM in my suburb village. If I go to local shopping centres, most of them just have 1 store with an RVM. For most people, you will only know it is out of order by by the time you get to it and too late to go elsewhere.

Mr. teddywinkles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122318778#Comment_122318778

What was our level before this may i ask?

Mr. teddywinkles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122320347#Comment_122320347

Through all the loads of stealth taxes and our highly progressive income tax rates id say😏 that money tree ya see there is the taxpayers.

elperello

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122320515#Comment_122320515

You'll find a lot of detail here.

https://www.epa.ie/our-services/monitoring--assessment/waste/national-waste-statistics/packaging/

elperello

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122320536#Comment_122320536

All non domestic water supply is subject to charges.

The main part of the UE budget comes from central funds which are of course supplied by taxes.

There is no comparison between Re-turn and UE.

They are completely different.

c2r

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122320470#Comment_122320470

Yes, that's my point really as to why if there are multiple stores in the area, they'd want to ensure that the things are regularly checked - some visual clue on them as to how much more capacity is available also would be helpful, so you know if you're third in the queue with someone in front of you recycling for half of Louth that it'll probably be full and you might as well give up now!

I agree that the scheme doesn't really make sense in the way it has been implemented, my recycling bin was previously full of recycling, but now it's far emptier as a result of all the returns that are made. I know people are talking about doing away with their recycling collection service, or sharing bins between households, particularly given their contractors don't take glass so they need to drive these to the bottlebanks anyway; so there's all sorts of external consequences to the policy decision that don't seem to have been given adequate thought…

Buffman

Me and some family members did a quick pit stop up North the other day as there were OK deals in Asda and Tesco (Clubcard), especially now that soft drinks are also on the shopping list. (24 pack for £8)

We can't even get the 24 packs of soft drinks here anymore, all seem to have suffered shrinkflation down to 18 packs when the DRS repackaging happened.

Just did the math and all in we saved almost €150 in deposits alone, never mind factoring in the actual lower cost of the product itself. We were passing anyway so no real extra fuel cost, but if there was, fuel would be more than covered by DRS savings.

Conall Cernach

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122312740#Comment_122312740

We should also be able to put them in bottle banks like we have been doing with glass bottles for decades (seperate containers obviously).

AllForIt

Since this was introduced I've bought one plastic bottle that was returnable. Yes, 1, that's it.

No idea what I did with it now that I think of it (edit: disposed of it responsibly I'm sure). Would you see anyone retuning one bottle at the machine? Think I'd feel a bit silly for some reason.

Tony EH

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122320347#Comment_122320347

You've missed the point.

Well done.

c2r

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122320851#Comment_122320851

Some of the products also have the label on, and can be returned to get a deposit payment when you go back south…. I've got a load of own brand tonic bottles in the car from M&S in Newry to take in later…

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122320890#Comment_122320890

Sure fire ahead, I am often only returning a few items, especially if I'm on foot.

elperello

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122320890#Comment_122320890

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122321159#Comment_122321159

I think little and often is best if you can fit it in with your routine.

A lot of posters complained of problems with large numbers of returns.

Also it saves having to apologise to people behind you if you are holding them up.

elperello

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122321049#Comment_122321049

Never mind 90% at this rate we're on target to be the first country in the world to exceed 100% 🙂

Mr. teddywinkles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122322390#Comment_122322390

No matter how good or poor the success of this. There going to say its going great.

reubenreuben

Delete

elperello

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122322744#Comment_122322744

I'm sure "they" will because that's just the way of the world 🌎

Meanwhile, my post was just intended as a bit of light relief 🙂

JP Liz V1

The shops should take the emptys being returned when machines are broken

4 machines not working yesterday in Ballincollig

bog master

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/no-choice-but-to-increase-green-bin-prices-waste-firms-warn-charges-could-rise-as-bottle-return-scheme-hits-their-profits/a1040776236.html

Many on here warned of this coming, but we had some doubters. I find it amazing that so many fine posters have highlighted problems and issues before they developed and yet we have this high powered, highly paid ReTurn directors not being able to foresee this!

reubenreuben

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122324276#Comment_122324276

Rip off Ireland at it again

feelings

Surprise surprise 🙄

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/customers-warned-bin-charges-to-rise-as-bottle-return-scheme-hits-waste-firm-profits/a1040776236.html

NIMAN

Does this scheme take cans?

I hear rte radio news this morning say waste operators may have to increase charges as they are losing business to the DRS who have removed large numbers of 'bottles and cans' from the usual systems.

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/customers-warned-bin-charges-to-rise-as-bottle-return-scheme-hits-waste-firm-profits/a1040776236.html

_Kaiser_

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122324276#Comment_122324276

And of course, the Government washes its hands of the situation that they have created. From the article :

On the question of whether a price increase would be justified, the spokesperson said: “Household waste collection in Ireland is predominantly carried out by private companies operating in a competitive market under a local authority permitting system.

“As such, the department has no role in relation to pricing decisions made by individual waste collectors.

TL;DR - you're on your own folks!

One interesting line though was this :

An industry source claimed there was an understanding with the Department of the Environment, Climate and Communications before the DRS began that the waste industry would be insulated against the predictable losses

Hmm.. Meaning what? Top up payments like they agreed with the operators of the M3 motorway tolls for example if revenue targets weren't met? Definitely would like to know if this claim is true and what "understanding" was suggested.

If so/true, who's paying for that? Oh oh course! The taxpayer!! Silly me!

So if that was the case then, you'd....

- Pay any price increase by the product manufacturer.

- Pay any losses for cans/bottles not accepted by the machine (if you bother trying in the first place).

- Pay increased bin charges because the poor private operators need that cash and if they don't get it one way they'll get it another.

- Pay whatever "insulation" sum might have been agreed as general taxation or see less taxes directed to something else.

Great scam this altogether! Goodies for everyone involved except the mugs at the end of the process hauling bags of rubbish around the place!

Daith

If people are going to be charged higher green bin charges, it could potentially lead to people just throwing their cans into the green bin anyway. Which wouldn't be great for the scheme.

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122324276#Comment_122324276

Puts the lie to the utterly disingenuous posts on this thread trying to deny this would impact refuse companies.

ednwireland

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122324276#Comment_122324276

my charges already went up in January (lift and standing charge). so I guess they'll be going up again. might have to start burning .

_Kaiser_

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122324362#Comment_122324362

Be great for the scheme! All those unclaimed "deposits"sitting in an account somewhere earning interest for the operators.

reubenreuben

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122324362#Comment_122324362

Or more dumping when people cancel recycling collections

jj880

We can do feck all right. Correction: we can fairly do quangos to a high standard. World champion gombeens.

Higher bin charges confirmed on top of higher base product prices before deposit added all under the pretense of saving the planet. The French public must have some laugh at what we put up with here.

Floppybits

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122324427#Comment_122324427

What will happen with these prices rises is that people will just throw everything into the general waste bin. I noticed in my house more recyclable rubbish going in the general bin because we are now separating cans and bottles from the other waste. You need to have your own recycling centre in your house to sort through general, food, recyclable and plastic/cans rubbish. Before this it was easy to just throw all the cans, plastic and packaging in the green bin now with this rises not a chance.

The one thing that annoys me about this return scheme is the fact that you are tied to the shop were you bring the cans and bottles back too. For me it when you get the voucher from the machine it should be possible to use in any shop why have it tied to that retailer? Was this something the retailers wanted in the agreement for housing the machines?

BobMc

just cash it out in the retailer you did the return in , we get out money back use it where you choose then

Genghis

That Irish Independent article leads with the waste management business threatening rate increases to householders.

But I think increasing your bill by a few Euros a month is not their goal. Read that article closely and right to the end - What they really want is to be able to reclaim the deposit on items through their waste stream.

The waste management business know just as well as Re-turn do that a significant proportion, I would say 25-30% of items sold with deposit, make their way into household, workplace, event and other collected recycle bins. Volumes like that will amount to something like 9-10m items a week, worth €2m in deposit value (€100m p.a.). Far more than the €15m a year they say they will lose in the article.

That €100m in potentially tax free income is the prize here - they want to be allowed reclaim these deposits. I actually see that as a very acceptable, very fair request from them and I have previously asked on here why Re-turn are not enabling collectors from the start.

Re-turn usually don't care who returns an item (pick it from a bin if you want), as long as they can verify its an item that is part of their scheme. The one big exception to this is when the entity trying to return an item is a collection business. It seems if you are a waste collector they don't want to know you.

Ignoring waste collectors lowers re-turns collection stats (although they are being allowed hide that for the first 12-18 months), it needlessly increases landfill, needlessly increases incineration and we continue to export of in-scope and separated items to far flung mixed recycling facilities while we dream of building a local plant.

For whatever reason, Re-turn just don't want to make it happen. I suspect they probably prefer the mountain-of-unclaimed-cash problem they currently have than bothering their ass to figure out how to work with waste collectors.

And sure - if they don't bother their ass, be that no skin off their nose: its consumers - or rather the consumers who are responsible enough to pay for recycling - who will, after all, make up the difference in their recycling fees at home.

reubenreuben

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122324562#Comment_122324562

The problem with throwing everything in the black bin is an extra charge as there is now another government levy on bins going over a certain weight.

tohaltuwi

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122324276#Comment_122324276

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122324276#Comment_122324276

I was about to post this. It was inevitable. Our government trying to have our pockets thoroughly cleansed.

elperello

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122324276#Comment_122324276

Finally we are getting some information about this issue.

I have posted here many times saying that we need clarity on how much the bin companies are really losing.

Now it seems it's in or about €15 m pa.

They say they have been earning it to date and now they want to be paid for not earning it.

Apparently they want a cheque in the post or else.

That's the sort of thing that happens when bin services are privatised.

Hopefully it will be sorted between the companies, Re-pak and the Department.

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122324689#Comment_122324689

Nope, privatisation is a total red herring.

Kerbside collection was far more efficient, and the collection agents (whether private or public) were funding that through the values of the recyclables.

Instead the recyclables are now funding collections of just those items, from a limited number of retailers.

The kerbside collections still have to happen for all the other waste. So there's a funding shortfall that has to be made up, whether that's higher taxes for those run publicly, or higher charges for consumers in a private system.

This is down to Re-turn and Re-turn only. This is the sort of thing that happens when you create a completely inefficient quasi quango, jobs for the boys, that has to be funded.