5 Shocking End Times Prophecies "The earth will become a great graveyard". The end of times

Shoog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122075209#Comment_122075209

The evidence of contemporary accounts of Jesus are extremely dubious to say the least. The only accounts of Jesus were either written by Christians or doctored by Christians. Of course that is not proof of their invalidity, but a skeptical mind will treat those accounts with the weight they deserve - which is not great.

o1s1n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122075135#Comment_122075135

It's basically mankind's longest running game of broken telephone. We're at the 'Purple Monkey Dishwasher' stage now.

Ezeoul

I'm confident that when the apocalypse comes, Sam and Dean Winchester will save us.

growleaves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122075243#Comment_122075243

You are conceding the claim that these accounts are potentially a kind of evidence and then immediately moving on to the question of whether they are good or bad evidence.

The historicity of Jesus is a big subject and there is no consensus among scholars that every mention of Jesus by non-Christians is a forgery.* Not that a consensus necessarily implies a monopoly on the truth.

A skeptic should also be skeptical of their own preferences which they find comfortable. If you want atheism to be true, are you too easily influenced into believing it is true? (Not necessarily you personally, but anyone.)

*Tacitus is generally believed by scholars to be authentic albeit Tacitus is relaying second-hand information and would have been a child when Jesus was alive.

Shoog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122075366#Comment_122075366

The problem is that there is no impartial Biblical scholar - no one bothers to study the Bible unless they are a Christian. They really barely pass the test of been scholarly given their huge bias. And no one bothers to study the historicity of Christian historical claims unless they have skin in the game. A scholar who studies a book of made up stories can only ever come to made up conclusions if he takes the book literally.

Its not much for an atheist to work with really.

I do not agree that Tacticus is a reliable witness since the passages in the texts refering to Jesus were both transcribed by Christian monks and do not fit contextually.

Another interesting fact is that there are only really two Christian accounts of Jesus, one from Paul who never claimed to believe in an actual physical jesus, and the four testiments - all based upon each other so making them a single account in reality, and all written a lifetime after the supposed subject died.

growleaves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122075374#Comment_122075374

There are many modern Bible scholars who are atheists, it's not at all rare. But they aren't impartial either as they often start out by assuming that Biblical traditions must be false and made up (with little justification imo) and end up going off on wild tangents.

Besides which, if there are scholars who have established that e.g. the mention of Jesus in Flavius Josephus may be a forgery due to idiomatic differences in the text - who were these scholars? If they were Christians they must have had integrity since they are holding this account - which is convenient to Christian apologists, if it's considered authentic - up to close critical scrutiny.

growleaves

@Shoog

Few points:

In context Tacitus is discussing Nero's need for a scapegoat for the fire that burned Rome. Then he discusses Nero's persecution of Christians to distract from the fire. Then he says, as an aside, that the founder of this religion was himself executed during an earlier emperor's reign but this religion still spread in Judea and Rome anyway. Then he goes back to discussing Nero's persecution of Christians. That sounds like a contextual fit to me - what am I missing?

The Gospel of John is not based on the Synoptic Gospels nor vice versa. It would be more accurate to say three of the Gospels could be based on each other and the fourth one is different but they all describe the same events.

Then you say the Gospels were "all written a lifetime after the supposed subject died". Well they were written in later life by people who knew Jesus when they were younger. Any biography in a book store could be an account from 40 or 50 years previously. John Lennon died in 1980 but does that mean that if Paul McCartney put out on a memoir tomorrow we should assume he can't remember anything accurate about Lennon? After all, it's been almost 55 years since the Beatles broke up.

The disciples had spent their entire adult lives preaching the Gospel accounts from memory, so they were writing it down after decades of repetition.

barbara73

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122072972#Comment_122072972

For those who confuse the Bible with the Talmud 🙂

..

The Talmud is a sacred Jewish book that teaches, among other things, that the Jews are a superior divine race. The Talmud is a demonstrably powerfully racist tool of the fake Jews, stating that the lives of non-Jews have no value. The Talmud also states that Jesus Christ is in hell today and is boiling there in hot excrement (Gittin 57a). Basically, we can talk about Jewish-Talmudic-Kabbalist faith (false faith), not faith in God. The truth is that Judaism today is not the teaching of the Old Testament! We cannot talk about Judaism, but about false Judaism. Most Jews have everything mixed together - Torah, Talmud, Kabbalah

….

The Jews were God's chosen people thousands of years ago, but he already wrote in the Bible what some of them are..

It wasn't about today's Zionists, etc.

…

1 Timothy 5:15

Some have already taken Satan's path.

Revelation John 2, 9

“I know your affliction and your poverty, but you are rich; I know how you are insulted by those who call themselves Jews, but they are not, but it is a company of Satan!

Revelation John 2, 13"

I know where you live: where satan's throne is. But you hold fast to my name and did not deny your faith in me even in the days when my faithful witness Antipas was slain among you, where Satan dwells.

Revelation John 2, 24

To the rest of you in Thyatira, who do not accept this teaching, who have not known what they call the depths of Satan, I say: I do not lay another burden on you.

Revelation John 3, 9

Behold, I give into your hand those who are of the synagogue of Satan; they call themselves Jews, and they are not, but they lie. Behold, I will cause them to come and fall at your feet; and they will know that I have fallen in love with you.

barbara73

THESE THREE SINS ARE VERY OFFENSIVE TO GOD. MANY ARE NOT AWARE OF THEM.

............

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We invite you to watch a very important movie: 3 SINS - WHICH OFFEND GOD STRONGLY, MANY ARE UNAWARE OF THEM - YOU MUST RUN FROM THEM! According to the teaching of the Bible, sins are actions that offend God himself. Jesus Christ, the Son of God, came into the world and gave his life on the cross for our sins. The church as a community of believers, teaching the gospel, shows us the negative effects of sin and at the same time reminds us of God's extraordinary mercy.

Scripture reveals to us that sin leads to separation from God, who is the source of life and love. By sinning, we postpone our spirituality and move away from the true purpose of our existence - salvation and eternal life with God. Sin damages our relationship with God, with our neighbors and with ourselves. They lead to selfishness, hatred, injustice and suffering.

But God's mercy, which is revealed in Jesus Christ, is extraordinary. Through his suffering and death on the cross, Jesus broke the barrier that separates us from God. His sacrifice atoned for our sins and opened the way to forgiveness and salvation. Thanks to God's mercy, every sinner who humbly repents and asks for forgiveness can receive new life in the Holy Spirit.

Prayer, both individual and communal, is an important aspect of our faith and spirituality. Through prayer, we can express our repentance and ask God for forgiveness. Praying the Rosary, which focuses on the mystery of the life, suffering and resurrection of Jesus, is one of the many ways we can connect with God and bear witness to Him.

The church as a community of believers plays an important role in our spiritual development. It is in the Church that we hear sermons that remind us of the Truth and encourage conversion. Through sacraments such as baptism and the Eucharist, we receive God's grace, which strengthens our faith and draws us closer to God. Adoration, the worship of God, and the witness of conversion are also important aspects of our spirituality and strengthen our bonds with God and other believers.

Through God's mercy we experience redemption. Christ our Savior gave his life on the cross to save us. It is His mercy that gives us back the possibility of eternal life with God. His death and resurrection are a miracle that brings us salvation and new life.

In witnessing conversion and rebirth, we share with others how God's mercy has changed our lives. We show them that there is truth and power in Jesus Christ, who has freed us from sin and leads us to the fullness of life in His presence.

God's mercy also leads us to a life of holiness. The Holy Spirit working in our hearts helps us grow in love, truth and virtue. Community in the church gives us support and strengthens our spirituality, and sacraments like the Eucharist revive our bonds with Christ.

When praying the rosary, which is a beautiful expression of our faith, we focus on the mystery of our salvation. By meditating on the life, suffering and resurrection of Jesus, we deepen our bond with Him and draw on His mercy.

The redemption we receive through God's mercy brings us the hope of eternal life. It is the promise that we will live with Christ in the fullness of love, joy and peace in His Kingdom. God's mercy leads us to eternal communion with Him and to the fullness of our lot as creatures whom He loves.

When we understand that sin offends God, but His mercy is unlimited and ever-present, we find true joy and fulfillment in our faith. We are called to conversion, to receive His mercy

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Z8uAdYQmHGo

smacl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122075366#Comment_122075366

A skeptic should also be skeptical of their own preferences which they find comfortable. If you want atheism to be true, are you too easily influenced into believing it is true? (Not necessarily you personally, but anyone.)

I agree entirely with the above sentiment. Anyone who commits to critical thinking should most definitely question their own assumptions and examine their own biases. By contrast, religious adherence involves faith formation from a young age which is all about accepting passed down truths that are placed beyond critical scrutiny. My opinion is that this leaves a blind spot in the religious adherent's ability to think critically when their own belief system comes under scrutiny, instead they form defensive arguments to protect their own biases. For example, Christianity has striven to forcefully eliminate the contrary belief systems of other religions, and also the lack of religious belief held by atheists. As an atheist, I find the stories and claims made by Christianity, Hinduism, Islam, Greek and Roman mythology, ancestor worship etc… all so far beyond the bounds of probability as to be reasonable to dismiss. This doesn't mean I haven't taken some time to understand them. Nor for that matter would I claim that religion doesn't offer some value to its adherents and host society, but I'd also think it is similarly damaging. For this reason I'd take a secular position that encourages freedom of religion alongside freedom from religion.

smacl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122074470#Comment_122074470

Much scientific progress throughout the ages has been achieved by not dismissing ideas that would seem to be fantastical in their time. The process of using our imagination to explore what might be possible, however unlikely it might seem, is fundamentally important. Significant aspects of where we are today in terms of technology started out as theory unsupported by observation until a much later date. It is not that maths maps well to observation, it is that maths is the language used, modified and updated to describe observed phenomena. It can, and is, also used to describe pure abstracts, giving us the likes of multiverse theory.

For me, dismissing theism is more about probability than certainty, specifically the balance of probability that any given religion's claims are true versus the contrary information, examination of underlying biases etc…

NIMAN

Threads with huge sections cut and paste from the Internet tend not to be very interesting.

crusd

A grown-up discussion looked like it may be emerging from the thread, however Barbara returned to make sure it returned to a childlike understanding of Christianity

crusd

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122075508#Comment_122075508

I would read Tacitus as giving context as who to who the christians in Rome were by referring to their own self professed origin story. Just as a reporter today referring to the Scientologists as believing in immortal alien spirits does not imply that their belief is true.

My own personal opinion is there there likely was a man named Yeshua from Judea. He likely developed a following in his life time. A number of ideas and teachings he developed likely were captured in the Gospels. His growing popularity was likely seen as a threat by both the religious authorities and Roman authorities in the region as the ideals are quite revolutionary. It is quite probable that he may have been among "revolutionaries" executed by the state.

As with many popular leaders who express new ideas, their followers often prescribe attributes and reverence to them in death that they never ascribed to themselves in life. The Gospels and associated writings in Acts act as a hagiography taking a man and trying to turn them into something they never believed themselves to be. The "divinity" was played up to align with the belief in the coming of a messiah and to "sell" the ideas to a wider audience. And who the individual actually was got lost

Shoog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122075785#Comment_122075785

I don't think any scientific theory comes out of pure ideas and speculation, they are always ideas which are precipitated by a piece of data which is not previously modelled adequately. Quantum mechanics, the most predictive scientific theory we have, is a perfect example of this.

I have real issues with things like the multiverse theory and string theory because they are literally unprovable and probably never will be proven in any meaningful way, they are examples of where science oversteps it's boundaries into useless speculation and aping metaphysics and religion. The perceived need for an account of everything when such an account is literally impossible has brought science into grave error.

The whole Big Bang theory is another area where science in the pursuit of a creation story has massively distorted the data to fit with the idea. I have not seen a single credible astrophysicist not acknowledge the huge issues with the big bang theory and quietly declare that the true account of the universe will likely turn out to be very different. The crunch is coming because the new web telescope is daily throwing up data which is impossible in a big bang universe. Egg will be on a lot of faces.

Shoog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122075877#Comment_122075877

A fair assessment which I at one time would have shared. However when I looked into it some years ago I veared towards thinking that the evidence for a historic Jesus was so scant that the real most probable explanation was that he was a fictional mythic character.

The Gospels are a carefully crafted origin story for a religion with ambitions to take over from the Roman empire. None of them were written by eye witnesses and the cohesion of the narrative shows their intent rather than their truthfulness. The fact that they were culled from literally hundreds of Christian gospels - many of which never speak of a physical jesus, also supports the idea that the New Testament is a crafted fabrication. We even have the specific date and place where the deed was done and where official empire building Roman Christianity was born.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122075736#Comment_122075736

tl;dr

Don't leave us hanging. Which three sins are we not aware of please?

screamer

i dont worry about such things, im pretty sure my time on earth will be done long before any end of days stuff….

smacl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122075983#Comment_122075983

I disagree, have a look at the list of existing technologies predicted in science fiction for numerous examples of where imagination preceded scientific discovery. Scientific innovation is often driven by desire of what might be possible rather than observation of physical phenomena. To assert something will remain forever unprovable is a rather dogmatic position to take that to my mind has more in common with religious faith than scientific endeavor.

Shoog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122076157#Comment_122076157

Here's a simple thought experiment, how could you experientally go about verifying string theory ? Its not a trick question. No one has come remotely close to answering it in 40 od years. Same with dark matter and even more so for dark energy. Big bang theory should have been thrown out the window as soon as dark matter/energy were introduced to plug the gaps in the predictions. I think there are around five such fudges needed to keep the Big Bang roadshow going.

The difference with quantum mechanics was they had evidence which allowed for experiments and an unimaginable theory was conclusively proved from a dead start in less than 30 years.

o1s1n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122075733#Comment_122075733

If we're just going to dump random bible verses:

Ezekiel 23:20
There she lusted after her lovers, whose genitals were like those of donkeys and whose emission was like that of horses.

smacl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122076334#Comment_122076334

Simple answer, I don't know, nor am I ever likely to. This is not to say no one else at any point in the future will ever know. In many scientific disciplines, e.g. theoretical physics, conjecture and theory commonly precede observation. For every major scientific breakthrough there are a multitude of failed attempts each of which demanded imagination.

Shoog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122076424#Comment_122076424

Imagination without data is not where science gets its big breakthroughs. There has to be an evidencary basis on which to speculate, it has to answer a question that needs an answer for general progress to take place. To wonder why something is happening is good science, to just wonder isn't.

blackbox

There is only one true God.

You should preface this with "I believe".

Millions of other people in other countries are equally certain that there are other true gods. Why do you think you are more "right" than they are?

smacl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122076434#Comment_122076434

Again, I disagree. We say that necessity is the mother of invention for good reason. Scientific breakthrough is commonly a result of human desire to meet a need. In this case, the imagination (conjecture) typically precedes the collection of any data (experiment). Most experiments in this context fail and these failures are essential to those few successes that lead to breakthroughs. Experimentation based on conjecture is also a method of gathering data and making observations.

Shoog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122076632#Comment_122076632

We are obviously not going to agree, but I say that almost all experimental investigation proceed from asking a question about an already observed phenomena. The idea almost never sprouts spontaneously without the data that first prompts the speculative explanation. Most explanations will fail because they are wrong - but the question prompted by the observation remains to be answered.

smacl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122076859#Comment_122076859

As you say, I doubt we're going to agree here. I would say data is commonly gathered as a result of experimentation. Experimentation is often of the form, 'I wonder what would happen if I did this'. In my opinion, having a creative, imaginative and open mind benefits scientific endeavor hugely.

Shoog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122076890#Comment_122076890

The last bit is not in dispute, but it must be built on sound evidentiary foundations. You can waste a hell of a lot of someone else's money just dreaming - so that not how it's done.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122072893#Comment_122072893

The church don't tackle sharing the wealth because they have a ton of it. Biggest landlords in Europe.

barbara73

After watching this video you will never say a bad word again! Jesus warned us…

Today's video: “After watching this, you'll never say a bad word again! Jesus warned us…”, represents one of the warnings we can find in the Bible. In the Gospel according to St. Matthew we read: "By your words you will be justified and by your words you will be condemned." These are very important words that indicate that our words have great meaning and impact on our spiritual life. Moreover, Jesus taught that our words are a reflection In Luke 6:45 it says, "A good man out of the good treasure of his heart bringeth forth good, and an evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart speaketh." This means that what we say reflects our inner self, our beliefs and our soul.

Jesus often practiced silence as a means of thinking, praying, and acting thoughtfully. Silence can help us understand the situation, calm our emotions and avoid rash speaking. It is also a time when we can listen to others and be more present in the conversation. Jesus taught that emotions can influence our words and actions. Therefore, it is important that we try to remain calm and composed in difficult situations. When we're upset, angry, or convinced we're right, we can say things we later regret. Jesus encouraged us to control our emotions and understand that our reactions affect others. Jesus also taught us empathy and understanding towards other people. When we are silent, we can listen more carefully to others and try to understand their point of view. This can lead to better understanding and conflict resolution.

God's love for us is one of the most beautiful and profound aspects of our spirituality. It is a love that transcends all human concepts and is difficult to fully understand. However, despite its mysterious nature, we can see many signs of God's love in our lives and around us.

The very fact of existence is the first and most important sign of God's love for us. In the Bible we read that God created the world and everything in it, and when we look at the beauty of nature, the complex structure of the human body or the rich variety of life on earth, we cannot help but see in this act the creation of an expression of love and care.

God's love for us is also manifested in His relationship with humanity. Many times throughout history, God has sent prophets and teachers to give us His words and instructions. However, the highest manifestation of this love was the moment when God sent his Son, Jesus Christ, to save humanity. Christ came into the world to teach love, mercy and forgiveness, and finally gave his life on the cross to save us and give us the hope of eternal life.

God's love for us is also manifested in our daily lives. It is He who gives us the ability to love others, forgive, empathize and offer help. It is He who gives us the strength to survive difficult times and overcome adversity.

However, we do not feel God's love for us only in moments of joy and success. She is also present in our moments of sorrow, suffering and trials. That is when God is beside us, supporting us with His love and His promise to never leave us.

It is worth remembering that God's love is unconditional. It does not matter about our merit or perfection. His love is eternal and unchanging, regardless of our faults and sins. It is a love that transcends us and in which we can find true and deep comfort.

God's love for us is an incomprehensible gift that is beyond human understanding. It is love that gives us meaning and purpose in our lives. Therefore, it is worth opening your heart to this love, seeking His presence and following His example, loving others as He loves us.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=QIsWT2L1gD0