The Digital Services Act 2024 [EU] ~ Social Media and You

corkie

The Digital Services Act 2024

The Digital Services Act 2024: Designated Comisiún na Meán as the DSC and invested it with the necessary powers to carry out its functions under the Regulation including powers of investigation, powers to impose fines, the power to issue compliance notices and orders to end infringements.

https://enterprise.gov.ie/en/what-we-do/the-business-environment/digital-single-market/eu-digital-single-market-aspects/digital-services-act/

https://www.gov.ie/en/press-release/71c6a-minister-coveney-announces-the-commencement-of-the-digital-services-act-2024/

This Act was made law here in February, but as far I can see it has yet to be enforced.

We had Micheal Martin ranting recently about Social Media apps and children.

Leading to this discussion.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122023960#Comment_122023960

Some other sites worth linking.

https://www.yoti.com/business/age-verification

https://www.mhc.ie/latest/insights/age-assurance-and-digital-services

https://support.google.com/accounts/answer/1333913?hl=en

So google has it already, do other social media apps have verified age restrictions in the sign up process besides clicking a button? Or because you need google/apple setup to download apps have you already proved age by that means?

Or will we be required to verify our age on things like X, Reddit, Facebook etc?

What about Boards it self, will this site also require more stronger verification of age?

Thanks for reading, hope this is the right forum for this thread?

corkie

I will link the video mentioned above again here, as it was what sparked the creation of this thread.

https://twitter.com/MichealMartinTD/status/1779510400121290955

At first as non-parent adult, I wrote it off as another MM rant about a manufactured crisis.

As I can see now from the news been reported it is a serious matter for parents.

"To the social media companies our message is clear. Take concrete steps to get underage children off your apps or we will impose those steps on you." ~~ Micheal Martin

Don't be to quick write that off as bluster, EU Laws have already been enacted in February to deal with it. As linked in the opening post.

These laws have far reaching powers and will effect adults use of social media as well.

I'm of the strong opinion that Smartphones should not be allowed for under 16s, unless Parents are proactively monitoring the use with Parental Apps.

I was shocked to hear that you only need to be 13+ to be on TikTok. There is a program about it tonight on Primetime and The Committee on Children is airing on RTE News as I type.

I think Parents and their children are presently bypassing Age Restrictions that currently exist on the device and apps. On Android, under 16's you need a supervised google account for the app store to work.

I could probably say more here, but I will wait for replies, because I don't want to find myself in an echo chamber.

corkie

TikTok looking into Prime Time findings as 'matter of urgency'

Earlier, Taoiseach Simon Harris told the Dáil that social media companies "need to get real" about the impact harmful content has on the mental health of young people.

"And if they don't, we need to be ready to act," he added.

The comments come ahead of an RTÉ Prime Time programme which examines concerns published by researchers and advocacy groups about young teens' mental health being negatively influenced by content on TikTok

Mr Harris said that he will watch the programme "very closely this evening".

I will be watching PrimeTime myself tonight, should be an interesting program.

JP Liz V1

I believe cyber bullying has increased even leading to teenagers taking their lives by suicide

They need regulation, parents need to know what sites their kids are on, everyone now even 9 and 10 year olds have phones and likely on some social media platform

What age is too young for a phone?

That Primetime episode will be interesting, there is kid influencers on sites now also

roosterman71

I'm confused about this thread. Is the problem that you may need to provide ID to sign up similar to Revolut, or One4All cards with bigger voucher values?

Or is it that they social media companies are doing enough and the responsibility lies squarely with parents?

corkie

@roosterman71 Or is it that they social media companies are doing enough and the responsibility lies squarely with parents?

It is mainly about Social Media, and no the companies have not done enough and worries that The Digital Services Act will be taken to far and put restrictions on adult use of them.

Don't want to say or have it squarely on parents. But they have a role which is lacking in my opinion.

The Act is wide ranging so may have a role in the cards your mentioning, have not dug deeper into it. Age assurance was my main reason for the thread.

corkie

The prime time program was shocking indeed. Wondering have parents watching have woken up to it and are more concerned about what there under 16's are doing on Social Media.

Concerned raised that the DSA is not strong enough and still leaving it up to companies to set there own age restriction methods on there apps.

Privacy concerned people will not like the idea of a centralized Digital age verification site but unfortunately I can see something like that been implemented in the future if companies don't implement strong enough measures of there own.

Linked this below in the opening post.

https://www.yoti.com/business/age-verification

Wonder would user's be happy to use that system?

This problem is not new, it is as old having the internet on computers. I can remember when my young nephews and niece's where having a computer setup in the house and my advice to the parents was as follows: -

• Keep the computer in a common area where you can watch and monitor its use, not in individual bedrooms. ~~ https://kidshealth.org/en/parents/net-safety.html

Should Parents Monitor Their Children’s Phones? – Controversial Question with Unequivocal Answer

roosterman71

Better verification is needed for sure. It would help 2 fold at least. 1) minimise age related issues and 2) minimise bots which are rampant and spreading false/misleading shite

corkie

@JP Liz V1 What age is too young for a phone?

First of all thanks for breaking the Ice on this thread. Thanked your post last night but forgot to reply.

Age for Smartphone use is a hotly debated topic. As I'm not a parent, it would be incorrect for me to start dictating advice to them, we seem to be setting up a Nanny State for that.

What's the right age to get a smartphone?

Data from Ofcom, the UK's communications regulator, show that the vast majority of children in the UK own a smartphone by the age of 11, with ownership rising from 44% at age nine to 91% at age 11. In the US, 37% of parents of nine- to 11-year-olds say their child has their own smartphone. And in a European study across 19 countries, 80% of children aged nine to 16 reported using a smartphone to go online daily, or almost daily.

"The majority of studies find no association between social media use and mental health," says Odgers. In the studies that did find an association, the effect sizes – both positive and negative – were small. "The biggest finding really was a disconnect between what people believe, including adolescents themselves, and what the evidence actually says," she says.

Edited the above with the comment on social media use and mental health.

Some children mature faster than others, so should be a parents decision. And then install parental apps and maintain responsible monitoring of the same.

What's a Good Age to Stop Monitoring Kids' Online Activity? Parents Weigh In

Ages 8 and 12 are also popular milestone ages; 11 and 9 are not—someone make something fun for 9-year-olds! From age 12 on, the numbers decline, but that’s likely because by that point kids have already cajoled most parents into handing over a permanent screen they can control.

How Google Accounts work when children turn 13 (or the applicable age in your country)

Even with that it varies from country, Ireland: 16+.

My main complaint with the Prime Time demonstration, they skipped that part of setting up a google device, for a child, for play store use and went straight to installing Tiktok.

Sam Russell

Why do 9/10/11/12 year olds need a smartphone? Is it so parents can communicate with them. A dumb phone will do that.

How much bullying goes on between these young kids goes on around the use of smartphone? The evidence is plenty - almost universal - either the bully or the victim has to sustain it. It has a huge effect of the victims.

How much screen time do these kids use on their own - probably in their own bedroom? Again, the evidence is that many use social media well after midnight. This is obviously detrimental their schooling and the normal development.

Does having a smartphone give access to porn? Well, again, evidence is that if you look for porn, the internet is where you will find in seconds.

I would ban smartphone in primary schools absolutely. Dumb phone are enough.

Age verification and identity checks should be mandatory for all.

corkie

I was wondering what kind of guidance advice was been offered to schools by Micheal Martin.

Possible will be from this website: - https://www.webwise.ie/

As the agency/body responsible for monitoring or enforcing the laws.

Something I should have linked in first post: - https://www.cnam.ie/online-safety/

Government press release in February: -

Minister for Education Norma Foley TD hosts social media summit to discuss online safety for children and young people

• the introduction of a robust age verification system to ensure that social media services are not used by children under the age of 13
• the effectiveness of controls in place to prevent access to harmful and inappropriate content
• it was a priority of hers to support parents, teachers and school communities in their endeavours to help keep children and young people safe online.
• Webwise.ie :- for the wide range of information and advice they provide through their Internet Safety Programme, webinars and more.

ISPCC says Prime Time report on dangers of TikTok for teenagers shocking but "no surprise"

The Irish Society for the Protection of Cruelty to Children (ISPCC) have said that the findings of an RTÉ Prime Time report discussing teenagers on TikTok last night was shocking, but also came as "no surprise".

I thought it was right response from them and linking the article as a followup on prior discussion in thread.

Edit:-

For anyone who didn't see the Prime Time show on TikTok. It is on the player now. https://about.rte.ie/2024/04/18/rte-prime-time-experiment-reveals-disturbing-content-recommended-to-13-year-old-tiktok-users-in-ireland/

corkie

This opening paragraph is my speculation and theories.

As the Digital Services Act was formulated, I believe during early days of COVID to tackle miss-information, wonder are EU Minsters and staff suffering from Long Covid. Creation of these Laws where probably brainstormed by them when they where in lock-down. Speculated on that in another post before this thread was created. Was also wondering where the EU got the power to implement these censorship laws? Did the public ever get to vote on them?

End of speculation.

At least there is another group keeping an eye on them when they tried to enforce stuff.

Following the 2023 Hamas-led attack on Israel, Thierry Breton wrote public letters to X, Meta Platforms, TikTok, and YouTube on how their platforms complied with the DSA regarding content related to the conflict and upcoming elections. The Atlantic Council's Digital Forensic Research Lab reported that Breton's letters did not follow DSA processes, and digital rights group Access Now criticised Breton's letters for drawing a "false equivalence" between illegal content and disinformation. ~~ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Services_Act

Please keep Hamas discussion to the appropriated thread and not here. Just using it as example.

Looks like TikTok was in the news again, for their Lite app.

https://www.theregister.com/2024/04/18/tiktok_lite_eu_info_demand/

EU demands answers on money-for-views version of TikTok

• A slimmed down version of the normal platform, Lite's Task & Rewards feature pays users the equivalent of a few pence per day for watching videos and engaging on the app.
• According to TikTok, the maximum daily screen time eligible for rewards is one hour, while users will not be able to earn more than about €1 (£0.85) per day.
• users can only earn rewards on videos suggested by their algorithmic feeds and not videos which they search for specifically.

Why anyone would want to do that for such little rewards is beyond me?

Front page news on the Examiner today: -

Children fed toxic content by social media algorithms, study finds

• Children are being directed to dangerous, toxic online content by social media company algorithms
• point to urgent and concerning issues for parents, teachers, policy makers, and society as a whole
• highlight the ineffectiveness of social media platforms in protecting children and young people.
• means ensuring age-appropriate safeguards are in place and working effectively "If the platforms will not do this, the State must."

Looks like the media here is really out to get the message across. I agree it is a serious worry for parents. But Micheal Martin calling it a Health Crisis is exaggerating and taking it a bit to far. What media storm has he created with this?

Just Like to Thank Mod @Quin_Dub for changing the tittle of this thread from: -

The Digital Services Act 2024 [EU] in Politics

to

The Digital Services Act 2024 [EU] ~ Social Media and You in Politics

Hopefully that title gives more meaning to thread and encourages more people to read and submit content here.

@roosterman71 Hope change in title makes the thread have more sense?

Just a gentle reminder this thread is in the Politics Forum, so please read the Charter before submitting posts.

corkie

Open this thread before finding this Thread on CA!

Should we regulate the internet? [Poll] in Current Affairs/IMHO

That thread has related discussion on ways and means to regulate the Internet. And luckily it is not governed by the Charter of this forum. So If you find a post in this thread that you want to reply to more freely, maybe embed/link the post in that thread or appropriate thread, and reply?

I posted in that forum a link about European Commission to stress-test election guidelines next Wednesday (24 April). It will be interesting to hear the results on that. Will post here when they release a statement on it.

Also replied to someone who replied NO, and I said it is to late, because the Laws have already come in to effect.

But is it to late, EU Elections are coming up and maybe we could question the politicians? On the topic and urge them not to over enforce regulation and take away our current internet liberties?

Open this thread in politics because I believe Micheal Martin made it political in the video linked earlier in thread.

I have been reluctant to post more in this thread because I don't want to be accused of soapboxing!

I also believe this thread is warranted and hope the issues raised get more traction.

It will be to late in a years time when regulations have been enforced to start complaining then?

Good chart on what DSA Changes!

https://twitter.com/sharpmelk/status/1781384232129962360

Large Online Platforms, which means boards.ie is probably not restricted by the rules as of yet? Don't think the site has the number of active members anymore? And is moderated.

corkie

How did we get to where we are now, with regards to social media?

I posted a picture of a book in this post in CA. Which is also embed in the first post above. Which included a counter argument against the contents of same. Book in question: -

'The Anxious Generation: How the Great Rewiring of Childhood Is Causing an Epidemic of Mental Illness.' By Jonathan Haidt which hit the No. 1 spot on the New York Times’ hardcover nonfiction best-seller list.

Is this pure American propaganda that our politicians have been using as bedtime reading matter?

The New Yorker had discussion with the Author about this book and previous ones.

Jonathan Haidt Wants You to Take Away Your Kid’s Phone

• Jonathan Haidt is a sixty-year-old social psychologist who believes that your child’s smartphone is a threat to mental well-being.
• He takes a history trip into how we got here.

^^^ Tip: - Open link in a private window to read, it is a long article.

What is happening now?

Suggestion in the UK for a 12 Hours school days? https://metro.co.uk/2024/04/21/teacher-wants-keep-students-school-12-hours-a-day-new-rules-20687304/

As mentioned above a stress test for EU Elections on Wednesday (24 April).

And the commission maybe going to enforce there rules against TikTokLite.

https://twitter.com/ThierryBreton/status/1782414979968139392

• https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thierry_Breton the current Commissioner for Internal Market of the European Union.
• And the replies to his tweet are interesting.

What can we do?

Suggested in previous post, discussion with EU candidates who come canvassing? It has been pointed out to me there is flaws in trying that.

• Irish politicians running for the EU Parliament won't have a clue what you're even asking them.
• They vote along party lines depending on the political grouping, they are part of in the parliament.

Isn't still worth drawing there attention to it? It absolutely is. Just don't get your hopes up for a coherent answer! So be prepared to have answers ready, if they look for clarification.

Hope this thread has got people curious about it and informed on the matter?

Thanks for taking time to read.

corkie

In an earlier post, mentioned the DSA Stress-Test of platforms for EU Elections, seems there is no public feedback on the results of it. As there where not reports on earlier tests, I don't think we will have public feedback on it.

Last week the FG Party posted a video on 'Digital Age Of Consent' available below.

https://twitter.com/FineGael/status/1783121660549197877

Strange thing back in 2018, Fine Gael wanted to set the age of consent to 13, but lost the Dáil vote on it. Thanks to another boards member for pointing out that fact.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/oireachtas/government-loses-vote-as-dail-backs-16-as-age-of-digital-consent-1.3497921

Children's rights groups angry at Dáil vote setting digital age of consent at 16 (they wanted it to be 13).

• “The digital age of consent is about the age at which young people can agree to the processing of their personal data,” Dr Muldoon said.
• The protection it can offer is limited: it is not designed as a mechanism for protecting children from the multiple risks they may encounter in the online environment.

So why are politicians now using it to seek approval for EU Laws already implemented here in February?

Education Minister Norma Foley [FF] has asked the online safety commissioner to introduce and enforce “robust” age verification across all social media platforms. — as far as she is concerned — it is no longer tenable for social media platforms to “stand idly by”, and said the likes of TikTok, Facebook, and X must take responsibility for protecting younger users. ~~ https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-41383918.html

It was reported on 17:30 Virgin Media news (8 mins approx).

Before anyone asks I am in favor of more rules to protect and restrict childrens online access, my worry is what adult liberates will be lost in the process of implementing tougher restrictions on the platforms?

Thanks for taking time to read.