New bus gates on Bachelors Walk and Aston Quay

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122076630#Comment_122076630

Presumably only a certain number of signatories are needed to bring a motion.

That does not equate to it being passed.

_Kaiser_

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122076601#Comment_122076601

You may not like it, or agree with it, but that doesn't make it nonsense.

The facts are that businesses have invested in those car parks and equally motorists are paying for a car that they need to get around reliably. Plus, many people don't actually LIKE "active travel" or public transport or find it convenient or attractive - seeing it as the worst of the available options which in many cases, it is.

The cycle/walk everywhere lobby will need to accept that not everyone agrees with them, and that a plan will need to find a balance between all sides - not just what's trendy or advocated for by a small group of ideologues in Government (the Greens).

Tenzor07

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122077664#Comment_122077664

Well, the same could be said for the "Drive Everywhere lobby", I'm sure that the reversal of pedestrianisation in Henry St. and Grafton St. is on the agenda?

Not to mention opening up of the Bus lanes when the "traffic's busy" eh? The removal of parking charges and disbandment of Clampers may also be on the wish-list too?

Maybe a Multi-Billion Euro metro system would placate the objectors, just rip open the heart of Dublin for 5 - 10 years while it's being built "won't be that bad.."

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122077664#Comment_122077664

The facts are that businesses have invested in those car parks

To be fair, they all received generous tax breaks!
It would also be rather naive to think that they have not been receiving a good return on their investment and this would help explain why they are determined not to see it disrupted in any way!

https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/homes-and-property/tax-breaks-fuel-car-parks-drive-1.62064

https://www.independent.ie/news/multi-storey-car-parks-tax-breaks-ending-soon/26183182.html

and equally motorists are paying for a car that they need to get around reliably. 

Nobody will be stopping us from using our cars. However, there will be some curtailments put in place within city centres to favour those utilising mass transit and other forms of sustainable transport.
Also you should remember that this wasn't done by "a small group of ideologues" given that they don't control Dublin City Council (Greens = only 9 of 63 councillors)!

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122077664#Comment_122077664

The cycle/walk everywhere lobby will need to accept that not everyone agrees with them, and that a plan will need to find a balance between all sides 

You mean like the plan the consultation found overwhelming support for?

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122077664#Comment_122077664

Those car parks have been goldmines for years and years, not a single one built in the last 20 years, hardly ever upgraded.

Close the car parks and build apartments.

Thelonious Monk

https://twitter.com/donna_cooney1/status/1785013205645058390

Dunno what Donna means here. She seems a bit away with the fairies this one, not in a bad way. I see her cycling around Fairview regularly.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122079160#Comment_122079160

Basically the plan stays as is, but some more specific consultation. The motion was to scrap it completely and start from scratch.

Disturbing it was that close.

Ezeoul

Plus, many people don't actually LIKE "active travel" or public transport or find it convenient or attractive - seeing it as the worst of the available options which in many cases, it is.

Or are physically capable of using it.

But damn those pesky annoying Disabled People Organisations and their members for looking for more consultation on this. The cheek of them.

And I wouldn't consider approx 3.5k people surveyed as representative of "overwhelming" support - not in a city of over a million people.

MJohnston

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122079193#Comment_122079193

I read elsewhere it was mostly only that close because some of the opposed had their own separate amendment they wanted to vote on, which would have done vaguely the same thing.

Not that much actual support for the original motion to restart the whole thing.

sameoldname

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122081707#Comment_122081707

I don't understand this argument. How many physically disabled people are there that can't use a kneeling, low floor bus with access ramp and disabled bay but instead, can only get around by car?

bk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122081707#Comment_122081707

3.5k people would be statistically considered a perfectly representative sample size.

Ezeoul

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122082003#Comment_122082003

Are you disabled?

It's a lot more complicated then just wheeling yourself onto a bus. Those that are accessible usually only have one wheelchair space, and if you're lucky its not already occupied - or being (ab)used by someone with a pram, or standing passengers.

I suppose you need to be living it, and not just talking about it in theory from an able-bodied point of view, to get it.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-41300122.html

https://www.irishtimes.com/life-style/2023/09/16/broken-glass-dog-poo-full-buses-and-out-of-order-ramps-a-day-out-in-dublin-as-a-young-wheelchair-user/

Anyway I won't bother wasting my time trying to change anyone's mind here. But I'm glad the DPO's are at least speaking up for the interests of the disabled.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122082211#Comment_122082211

And when you get to where you are going, you think it is easier to get around town with hundreds of cars causing congestion and blocking footpaths by parking on them? It is going to be far easier for a disabled person to get around a pedestrianised College Green then the current mess. South Williams St is basically inaccessible to someone in a wheelchair with the state of the paths at the moment - if that was pedestrianised properly it would be grand.

Disco24

What about blue badge holders being allowed access to cross city same as a taxi? Numbers aren't going to impact traffic.

Am sure people with agendas will find some other reason to protest.

Tenzor07

Whilst the DPO are standing up for people with disabilities who can afford a car and who are able to drive, the report doesn't mention those who cannot afford to run a car and/or cannot drive and who would be better served by an efficient bus service.. Even if the wheelchair space is occupied there would be another Bus along much quicker with bus gates in operation.. Plus not everyone with a disability would use a wheelchair and can use the seats around the door area of the Bus..

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122081707#Comment_122081707

Surely what you should be asking is why did they not participate in the public consultation when it was on?

Ezeoul

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122082462#Comment_122082462

Yeah, clearly not disabled.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122082612#Comment_122082612

You got me. I gave the game away that I'm clearly not disabled cause I think the right picture is probably easier for people in a wheelchair then the left.

Ezeoul

Deleted double post.

Ezeoul

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122082624#Comment_122082624

And yet there are no wheelchair users in the picture. Funny that.

Look, you can gloss over the whole "how they get there" in the first place. They can put in as many pedestrianised streets and plazas as they like, and claim they are accessible all they want.

But if the disabled can't get into Dublin City Centre easily in the first place, well, it pretty much defeats the purpose.

And no, using public transport is not easy, when you are disabled. Point already made.

But I'm sure you will continue to ignore it.

Marcusm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122082462#Comment_122082462

I’d like to believe you but i suspect the same shite approach as is seen in the rfubr’d square in Temple Bar and the changes in height and immediate breaking of the new paving will likely predominate.

starlit

Will that apply to the green bus aswell not just the Dublin city buses?

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122082790#Comment_122082790

Oh the implementation is key and I'm not suggesting they always get it right.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122082748#Comment_122082748

There are no wheelchair users in the picture as it is a rendering.

I'm not glossing over how they get there. How are bus gates on the quays going to stop people accessing the city centre? The vast, vast majority of people driving into and through the city centre are not disabled. If you discourage them it makes life easier for those who need to drive in to do so. The changes are designed to make transiting the city centre more difficult, not entering it.

Many disabled people also have no choice but to use public transport so the more efficient we can make it work the better. The easier it is to get around the city centre when they are there the better.

Marcusm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122082801#Comment_122082801

change “always” to “ever” I would say! I’m a fan of driving into the city. I was a fan of using those car parks. I can see that it’s better for everyone not to have it. That being said, I’d prefer to ban taxis from the quays also but allow the Guinness trucks. It’s rarely that I see a Guinness truck acting like a twat. Equally 99.9% of taxi drivers do so.

AlmightyCushion

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122082612#Comment_122082612

My mum has been using a wheelchair for years. My family come down to Dublin a bit and getting around the city centre is a fúcking pain in the hole. I know this personally because I push the wheelchair when I am with her. It is a hell of a lot easier to do it on streets that have a lot more room for pedestrians/have less cars. I can't see how anyone who has ever used a wheelchair or been with someone who does could think otherwise.

Ezeoul

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122083596#Comment_122083596

Again, you're jumping to talking about navigating a wheelchair in a pedestrianised area once you're already in the City Centre. Not about the commute into the City Centre in the first place.

Have you ever been left sitting at a bus-stop at the side of the road while two or three buses go by because the one wheelchair space on the bus (if it has one - not all do) is already occupied? Would you rely on that level of service on a daily basis to get you to work on time? I know I wouldn't.

Have a read of those links I posted above. Those are real experiences too.

Your Mam is lucky she has someone to push her around in her wheelchair when you come down on your visits to Dublin. And even at that, you still find Dublin City Centre a pain in the hole!

There is more and more plans being made to exclude private cars from the City Centre and contrary to popular opinion here, it will not make "everyone's" lives easier. Just some people's.

AlmightyCushion

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122083678#Comment_122083678

It is a pain in the hole because of all the narrow streets and cars. These plans will improve that. They have the option to drive into Dublin but they don't. They get the train in to Dublin.

Ezeoul

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122083702#Comment_122083702

I've lived in Dublin all my life and never got a train into the City Centre.

No train lines from where I live.