New bus gates on Bachelors Walk and Aston Quay

cgcsb

I wonder what solicitors advised them that DCC went 'beyond their power' the local authority is well within their part 8 powers to do so.

Daith

The Chairperson of that Traders group is a solicitor afaik?

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122968037#Comment_122968037

Yes, but also owns one of the carparks (which he's intending on mostly turning in to a hotel)

Worst person you can ask for legal advice is yourself!

breezy1985

Councils can't decide what to do with paths and roads 🤣🤣

This fake traders group really just needs to admit defeat if this is what they resort to.

Daith

I dunno, I've been surprised by court decisions around this

If the council wins, they should just implement the original plan as designed. Not the one they watered down to appease the people now taking them to court

loco_scolo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122965881#Comment_122965881

I honestly thought it had gotten better to the point that it didn't happen, even on a Thursday or Friday at Christmas. Genuinely surprised it's still THAT bad. This was 7pm on a Friday, not 8am on a Tuesday or Wednesday.

We considered getting out and walking a number of times, but most of those times were not at a bus stop. Or, naively, we believed the bus would start moving soon.

Fully acknowledge that most bus drivers would likely have allowed us to disembark even if not at a bus stop, but we didn't ask.

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122968547#Comment_122968547

Again, as I posted above, it isn't normally that bad at that time. It's normally about 20 mins max.

Thursday and Friday evenings in the two weeks prior to Christmas are peak social nights out with far more taxis in the city centre, and things just get snarled up.

markpb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122967994#Comment_122967994

They might be hoping that DCC aren’t willing to spend the money defending the case and buckle now.

They might also be hoping for a repeat of the mental shenanigans surrounding Strand rd and another judicial decision that cripples DCCs ability to remove road space from private vehicles. It’s a long shot but it would be a huge boost to them if it happened. They could block pretty much any road space reallocation project for the next five years while the appeal winds its way through the courts.

VonLuck

My bet is that there was some really minor and insignificant procedure that was not followed and then the works to the quays will need to be reverted. It's always a technicality that wins these cases.

bikeman1

Do we know a list of traders that this group represents? I will gladly boycott them.

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122970531#Comment_122970531

Its primarily carpark owners. Arnotts, Brown Thomas and Louis Copeland are all involved or otherwise in opposition to the scheme

cgcsb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122970531#Comment_122970531

The car parks, the restraunt association (which may be a front for more car parks) and Louis copland. So no actual traders

lordleitrim

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122970816#Comment_122970816

Is Louis Copeland not a menswear trader with shops in Wicklow St and Capel St?

Daith

Yeah the same Traders Alliance didn't like the changes to Capel St either.

cgcsb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122971007#Comment_122971007

OK so it's a traders alliance or 1 eccentric trader

BlueSkyDreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122968947#Comment_122968947

What is the Strand Road case?

Viscount Aggro

Thomas street and Brown Thomas car parks … its the Keoghan family, and their neighbour Noel Smyth. Sandyford - Roth Rua and Liseux hall.

They are the main protagonists in this legal action.

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122972384#Comment_122972384

Have a look at this...

https://irishcycle.com/2024/07/29/strand-road-cycle-path-judgment-expected-at-least-20-months-after-last-court-hearing/

BlueSkyDreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122972412#Comment_122972412

Thanks. And still no hearing date for the appeal on this?

The thoughts are that stacking up the cases against DCC will cause them to cave, as they cannot finance the challenges at Strand Road and now with the Bus Gate?

markpb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122972444#Comment_122972444

DCC have an indirect budget exceeding €1.4bn. They can easily afford to defend these cases. The question is whether they think it’s a good use of money and I’d imagine some senior people are wondering if it would be a good use of political capital, a much more finite resource. Shakespeare seems to share a lot of values with his predecessor, I can’t see them backing down on this one.

CatInABox

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122972444#Comment_122972444

Just on the date for the hearing, it's actually already happened, what we're waiting on now is the judgement. The judges that heard the case have to publish their decision, but so far despite a rather lengthy time period, they have given nob sign of it.

From what I've read of the hearing, it certainly seems like the judges were a little shocked at the decision of the original judge to completely ignore DCC saying that it was a trial, as that's not the standard procedure at all.

Personally, and this has no insider information at all on it, I think that they're trying to find a way to deal with this without landing a colleague in trouble, a colleague who has since been promoted.

Daith

Does any one know when the courts are looking at this?

blanch152

I would guess that the car park owners are more than a little nervous after the most recent High Court judgements on wind farms. The courts have effectively said that we can't continue with business as usual in the face of the climate emergency and overturned two planning rejections by ABP.

If that logic follows through to reducing emissions in city centres, then DCC could have a free hand very soon.

Daith

Yeah, am hoping that recent judgement is positive news for a few things

CatInABox

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123055761#Comment_123055761

It's still very early in that case I'm afraid. Went in during October, and is currently in the preliminary stages. No sign of which judge it's been assigned to or anything.

AlmightyCushion

Is it possible the court rules that the council should have gone with the original implementation instead of the half assed one they actually went with to appease the car park companies? That would be pretty funny. It might even stop further stupid court cases like this.

Daith

Probably not, but what the council would be hoping for a is a strong judgment in favour of their ability to make these plans and changes.

Tbf, it was the council that watered down the proposals in order to appease the people now taking them to court!

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123056890#Comment_123056890

It is possible. Given what happened in the windfarm case, the court could rule that the Council was derelict in its duties under the Climate Act by listening to the car park owners and watering it down.

cgcsb

Would be great to see the council ordered to implement the full scheme

CatInABox

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123057978#Comment_123057978

The courts will only rule on what's in front of them, and the question being put to them is along the lines of "does the council have the power to implement the changes in the manner that they have?" Essentially, the court will rule yes or no on that question, and won't involve the previous plan in the ruling at all.

In saying that, in the judgement, the courts could expand on what we've talked about here, they could say that not only does the council have the right to make changes to traffic, that they should be going further. That won't be legally binding on the council, but it would be a precedent that could be used against any other JR, which would be incredibly useful.

There is a limit to what the other wind farm case means as well. Yes, it's not business as usual anymore, but that doesn't mean that the council (or anyone) can just fire ahead with a project without doing their due diligence. In this case, the alliance are probably going to argue that the changes should have followed a report on their economic impact. The council definitely didn't do one, but are they required to do one? The wind farm ruling almost certainly won't have an effect on their requirement to do one, so it's going to be interesting as to which side the judge comes down on.