New bus gates on Bachelors Walk and Aston Quay

lotas

I read the following article this morning. "From August, bus gates will be in operation on Bachelors Walk and Aston
Quay in order to restrict drivers from travelling through the city centre."

https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/major-changes-to-dublin-city-traffic-to-come-into-effect-in-august-1610937.html

The quays have always been a pain in the a$$ to use, no matter the time of day… So, how will this effect people?

William_Flynn

The council has been pushing traffic onto the quays for decades, by closing alternative routes (which I had no problems with). Now they are blocking the quays in places, without showing where the traffic should go access parts of the city centre (where currently one is forced onto the quays).

William_Flynn

I can’t use public transport during rush hour, due to Asthma. Within 5 minutes of being on an overcrowded commuter train, I got an asthma attack which took two days recover from.

Without medical exemptions, all these car restrictions do is exclude me from the city centre. Or in other words, the policies make me disabled.

Zebra3

Private cars can still access the city, but there should be a reduction in pollution as a result which everyone will benefit from.

Cookie_Monster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121999734#Comment_121999734

no they don't, you still have multiple options. firstly you can still drive and just sit longer in traffic, or taxi or walk or cycle or use a motorbike.

frankly you are just being ridiculous. Have you even looked for information regarding the alternative routes?

Compo82

Dublin City Centre will just turn into a wasteland with scumbags hanging around, no shops as the numbers coming into town will just reduce, it's actually ridiculous what they are proposing. Dublin City Council just ruining Dublin together with Eamon Ryan.

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122000574#Comment_122000574

Nobody is being stopped from driving in to the city centre

It is the tiny number driving through the city centre, not going or stopping anywhere there, but holding up the buses and trams carrying many multiples the numbers of people that are going to be affected.

Tenzor07

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122000574#Comment_122000574

Nothing to do with a Bus Lane, more to do with the Justice system and number of Gardai on the streets.

trellheim

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122000582#Comment_122000582

But it IS only a tiny number. A few years ago I would have agreed, but you look at OCS/OCB now and there's very very few indeed.

MrMusician18

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122000582#Comment_122000582

That's what we've been told but it's not actually the case. The new bus gates limit access to destinations to the east of O'connell St not just through traffic.

Congestion on the quays is bad essentially for one reason, the sequences of traffic lights - particularly the operation of the bus crossover light. This light forces traffic down to a single lane and has poor timings

bk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122000785#Comment_122000785

Rightfully so, we have to prioritise buses over cars. The buses on the quays carry vastly more people then the cars do.

o1s1n

Really looking forward to it myself, should make my cycle commute through the city centre a little bit less life threatening 😁

transportrian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122000574#Comment_122000574

Since the NTA started recording the trips in between the canals of the city centre (2006) sustainable modes of travel have always been higher than car trips. CC business is doing just fine and will continue to do so..

Yet a lot of space is allocated to cars which doesn't represent the fact that the majority of people don't drive into the CC, the bus gates are just one element of the transport plan that will help improve the experience for the majority of people crossing the canals, allowing PT to function better making it more attractive to use thus hopefully increasing usage. Also per the public consultation, people are in favour of this plan.

It's now up to DCC & relevant stakeholders to implement it.

LXFlyer

People need to remember that the number of buses using the Quays east of Winetavern Street will increase significantly when the D-Spine phase of BusConnects happens.

That will see a large number of routes re-routed away from Dame Street / College Green to the Quays which is one of the changes to facilitate the College Green Plaza.

Maintaining the status quo on the Quays just isn’t an option once that happens.

MrMusician18

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122000806#Comment_122000806

I disagree, throughput of people should be the priority. This means that buses should get priority but doesn't mean that others get unduly delayed either.

The sequencing of the bus crossover doesn't appear to be demand led and it certainly isn't throughput led. So what happens is that it turn green for a bus, which may or may not be present. When it does turn green for a bus it stays green for them long after all bus traffic has cleared the crossover.

At the moment it's a pseudo bus gate, designed to delay and frustrate drivers of cars.

MJohnston

Let's get some facts from the actual plan into this thread:

• Private vehicle traffic along the North and South Quays will be removed at Bachelors Walk and Aston Quay, leaving the space for buses, taxis, cyclists and pedestrians only. Arrangements for deliveries and local access will be developed.
• Only public transport and cyclists will be allowed to turn left from Westland Row onto Pearse Street. A new right turn for general traffic will be introduced at this Junction and the section of Pearse Street from Westland Row to Sandwith Street will be made two-way. Westland Row will no longer be a through route to Pearse Street but will allow access towards the Samuel Beckett Bridge instead.
• There were two potential options around Custom House, and I believe they've gone for the option to close Custom House Quay and route all traffic around the back of the space.
• The above will also facilitate the reduction in traffic lanes on Gardiner Street from four lanes to two lanes allowing for safer pedestrian and cycling use of this area
• Traffic will be removed from College Green and Dame Street from the junction with George’s Street eastwards. Deliveries and limited access will be facilitated.
• Following the successful transformation of Capel Street into a traffic free environment, it is the intention to replicate this scheme on Parliament Street, introducing a car free corridor for pedestrian and cyclists on the western edge of city centre retail core.
• Potential for a pedestrianised Lincoln Place
• Access into the Inner Core will be maintained for necessary trips; Car traffic without a destination in the Inner
  Core will be redirected as far as possible via alternative existing routes; On selected streets, general car traffic will
  be removed; A 30kph speed limit will be introduced on all roads in the City Centre
• Access to City Centre Car Parks will be maintained, as required, and will be managed to ensure that sustainable transport and public realm objectives can be realised
• The redevelopment or repurposing of the most centrally-located multi-storey car parks will be pursued
• Not fully detailed in the draft plan is the establishment of a new inner orbital route for private car traffic. My guess would be a Patrick Street, High Street, Dorset Street, North Circular Road, and Samuel Beckett Bridge alignment for this.

These changes are long overdue, and should bring significant improvements to the public transport infrastructure in Dublin. And even some of these changes will benefit car drivers too — for example the change to Gardiner Street, if you've driven on it before you know how much chaos and swerving is caused by the ersatz four lane nature of the street. If this is simplified to 2 lanes, a lot of the traffic conflicts are removed and things will proceed much more smoothly.

Some delivery timelines:

And some prospective drawings of public realm improvements:

MJohnston

Oh and this is separate from the above plan, but thanks to some of the cycling infrastructural improvements along the south quays, we've already seen this drastic improvement in the pedestrian situation:

p_haugh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122000725#Comment_122000725

And most of those cars seen on OCS are there to access the Arnotts carpark

witchgirl26

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122000582#Comment_122000582

Ok but if I live in south Dublin & I want to go park in the Ilac car park to attend the Abbey, I will not be able to go down the quays but rather will have to do a much more roundabout route. I am accessing the city centre, not transiting through but I still need to cross the Liffey. Or are we meant to stay on our side? What about those of us who are in cross-city relationships so have parents either side of the Liffey?!

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122001484#Comment_122001484

You can do the more roundabout route. It'll probably be quicker right now anyway.

CoffeeImpala

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122001484#Comment_122001484

Why are you parking in the Ilac to go to the Abbey? There's a few car parks that are closer and probably easier to get to from the south of the city.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122001484#Comment_122001484

They are not blowing up all the bridges. What difference does it make to anyone who has parents either side of the Liffey if a small portion of the quays are closed to private traffic.

MJohnston

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122001484#Comment_122001484

You'll still be able to do this.

Coming from the South-west use Patrick Street → High Street → Father Matthew Bridge to cross the river, then up Church Street → King Street North → Kings Inn Street

Coming from the South-east, use Beckett Bridge and the Park Rite at the IFSC, or the East Link and the car park under Point Square. Take the Red Line if needed to get to the Abbey theatre.

MJohnston

Oh actually I forgot — if you're coming from the South West, you won't need to make any adjustments to get to the Ilac car park — Bachelors Walk will be the bus gate, which means private cars will probably be forced off the Quays at Jervis Street. Which is where you'd go to get to the Ilac anyway.

And yes, the whole point definitely is that you'll need to take a more roundabout route as a private car driver.

The Quays are an integral part of our public transport network. They 100% need to be more efficient for buses.

MJohnston

Maybe that's worth a summary. Under these plans Eastbound quays private traffic will likely:

• Be able to use the Quays from Heuston to Jervis Street, then forced to turn left onto Jervis Street.
• Be essentially unable to access the Quays between Jervis Street and Talbot Memorial Bridge
• Able to use the Quays from Talbot Bridge to the Eastlink

Westbound quays private traffic:

• No change between Docklands and Talbot Memorial Bridge from existing traffic routes.
• Banned between Talbot Memorial and O'Connell Bridges
• Essentially unable to access the quays between O'Connell Bridge and Grattan Bridge/Parliament Street
• Able to use the Quays from Grattan Bridge to Heuston

Zebra3

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122001484#Comment_122001484

You can use public transport.

magicbastarder

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122002208#Comment_122002208

Will driving as far as capel Street and taking a right onto the bridge be possible?

MJohnston

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122002230#Comment_122002230

I would assume so — the bus gate was specifically listed as being at Bachelors Walk and not the entire north Quays

magicbastarder

Cheers - I assumed the 'forced to turn on to Jervis street' was referring to motorists who want to continue eastbound, rather than a bard 'you must turn here' rule.

Jizique

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122002230#Comment_122002230

Well, if Parliament St is closed you will have nowhere to go bar back to Heuston

dfx-

In the prospective drawings feature buses with doors on the right...

MJohnston

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122002455#Comment_122002455

Fishamble Street is the only exception to that — which may have some DCC staff and locals using it for access.

trellheim

If you wish to drive from ESB as a power company worker from South Lotts to (say) the Courts Service in Smithfield to fix a power outage, after this is brought in, what would be the routing ?

Tenzor07

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122004333#Comment_122004333

Google Maps works well for that..

bk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122004333#Comment_122004333

I’d assume they would just use the bus lane if need be.

Though interestingly Google Maps says currently taking a route south of Stephen’s Green would take the same amount of time as the quays would.

BeerNut

I'd go Grand Canal to Harold's Cross, Clanbrassil Street, Fr Mathew Bridge, Hammond Lane.

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122004333#Comment_122004333

What is it with people coming up with ever more obscure scenarios? Pat Kenny did an entire segment firing these at someone

I suspect they'd cover it from the vastly closer and completely unaffected depot in Inchicore.

Tenzor07

Ah I remember the consternation from motorists when they pedestrianised Henry street.. "Ah now how am I supposed to get to Mary street!!? .. Drive all the way around? Are ye mad!!?"

bk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122004397#Comment_122004397

Yes, super obscure.

Emergency service vehicles, blue light vehicles, like Gardai, Fire, Ambulance can legally use bus lanes and they are a major benefit to them, much easier for them to get around the city via bus lanes.

Orange light vehicles, like the ESB, can't legally use bus lanes and most of the time they don't need to. If there was a genuine emergency then they could contact the Gardai for an escort, which would help clear all the other traffic too.

trellheim

who said it was an emergency ? It may need fixing, sure, but I never said it was an emergency. Normal yellow van going on a job. No blue lights.

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122004790#Comment_122004790

In that case, they would be perfectly OK going around the restriction. Indeed, the sensible route right now almost certainly goes nowhere near it.

trellheim

Google maps has that route straight down the quays as of right now. What would your sensible route be ?

bk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122005258#Comment_122005258

Well if it isn't an emergency then it can take the same route as any other car!

Here is what Google Maps recommends as of 1 minute ago:

Slightly longer, but actually faster!

Obviously that could change throughout the day, depending on traffic.

Of course from the ESB Inchicore depot is 10 minutes faster!

MJohnston

Keep the insanely niche scenarios coming folks, I'm sure we can solve them all!

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122005413#Comment_122005413

If someone has a fridge and a couch and mudt get them quickly from St. Vincent's to the Four Courts during rush hour but dropping the kids off at Belvedere after driving in from Cavan...

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122005470#Comment_122005470

That's only a stage off one of Pat Kenny's ones; in so far as its more plausible than them!

Someone wanting to go visit Kilmainham Gaol after a show in the Abbey.

Presumably the time machine required to get them to Kilmainham in time for last admission after even a matinee in the Abbey can't do relocation.

Family of four with two kids in buggies want to visit the Zoo and also somewhere else, can't remember where. Apparently can't do any distance with the kids in buggies yet can actually push them around the Zoo.

BeerNut

I'm on Ormond Quay and have a fox, a chicken and a sack of grain…

Tenzor07

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122005554#Comment_122005554

In fairness to old Pat he's no George Hook and has been reporting on traffic congestion for a very long time:

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122005601#Comment_122005601

And yet he now covers it, and indeed any public transport issues, from a "I want to drive wherever I want whenever I want" perspective.

Tenzor07

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122005613#Comment_122005613

He's 76 years old now, perspectives change for sure…

MJohnston

Worth noting, of course, that among many other advertisers on Newstalk and other Communicorp stations, Pat Kenny's show is directly sponsored by Aviva Insurance, and…well you can decide for yourself: