Breaking - Shooting and Explosion at Concert Hall in Moscow

volchitsa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121951529#Comment_121951529

Absolutely. It's tragic. I don't know whether we here in the west could have helped prevent that return to authoritarianism, but in any case we are paying the price of it - and this may be only the beginning. Such opportunities wasted.

I'm still in (occasional) contact with a couple in Moscow, educated and westernised, keen to have contacts with the rest of Europe, yet the last time I spoke to the woman, shortly after the invasion, I found that she was very guarded even on Telegram about expressing any opinion other than general sadness about the conflict and the resulting bad relationship with the west. Nothing at all about whose "fault" it was, and a certain eagerness to assure me that the economy wasn't suffering from the boycott which had been declared that made me wonder a bit.

I don't know if it was because she was being very careful out of fear or prudence, or whether the tradition of a "patriotism" which is not far from xenophobia is still there just under the surface even among the educated middle class.

I haven't contacted her since, and neither has she contacted me, so I can't tell if her thinking has changed since then.

engineerws

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121958090#Comment_121958090

No, unless you consider tass reputable 🫣. Same with nordstream pipeline, no main stream organisation printed the Sy Hersh expose despite his pedigree.

In the write up simplicus builds on precedent, 1. Ukraine has lied 2. the CIA is involved in terrorism globally. One could point to Russia's lie about not invading Ukraine to build a similar case against Russia but nevertheless it's concerning that nuclear armed Russian seems to be holding Ukraine/UK and USA responsible.

Kind of feels like it's de-escalated now and hopefully this is the apotheosis of current nuclear risk.

eightieschewbaccy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121960486#Comment_121960486

Given the fact that you have a history of buying the Russian line, it feels pretty reasonable to question your intentions.

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121960714#Comment_121960714

There's a good interview with an exiled Russian academic in the Irish Times, describing how Russia has become a nasty and violent society and has considerably worsened since the invasion of Ukraine. He mentions how two of the Moscow subjects being tortured was shown in the media and was approved of by TV commentators. The place has become really coarsened and is heading towards being as authoritarian as it was in Soviet times.

https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/2024/03/30/worldview-you-cannot-hide-anywhere-a-historian-in-exile-on-the-brutality-of-russian-society/

engineerws

Looks like the Russian's are after Lieutenant General Vasyl Malyuk, chief of the Security Service of Ukraine (SBU)

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/ukraine-war-russia-spy-assassination-b2519543.html

As per tass.

https://tass.com/politics/1768355

The West say it was Isis-k and Russia is now openly declaring Ukrainian chief of security as a suspect.

Alarming ⏰

jmreire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121960714#Comment_121960714

Pretty much the same here,,,still in contact with several friends, and reactions vary from straight out of the Kremlin propaganda factory, to the ones (few) who say more by saying nothing, and letting you read between the lines yourself. Hard to try to explain to anyone who hasn't ever lived in Russia, what iit's like. During Glasnost times, I believe that the west did step in and tried to help in the transformation from Communism to Capitalism. I'm not saying that it was done for the most altruistic of reasons, none the less it was an important step. Like when Aer Lingus was invited in to set up the duty-free business in Sheremetyevo Airport, and when the Authorities had it figured out, Aer Lingus was quickly given the bums rush. And of course, Aer Lingus were not the only ones, far from it!!! Yet, once European/UK/US companies figured out "How Business was Done", they moved in, and that was the high point in east-west relationships. Maybe in their haste to "normalise" relationships with Putin, and not rock the boat, Putin was given too much leeway by the west, and as is well known now, nothing triggers Putin more than perceived weakness. More recently, though I sense a slight change in the attitude of one friend in particular. Back in Feb 2022, I got what might be best described as a Mauling for criticising the invasion. I was told in no uncertain terms that Putin was a God given hero, who was saving Russia from the evil west et al. But now, there's less of that, and the attitude is that, yes, terrible things were done, but Putin has been forced into this. Evil west etc, etc. Its not his fault. And also, there's a rising sense of fear, the sanctions are working, life for ordinary Russians is becoming harder and harder, Russian refugees are flooding back into Russia with the all the attendant problems…competition for housing is driving rental prices up, services are suffering too, as maintenance men etc, are being conscripted, (major failures in city heating systems this winter) Also, Medicines are becoming scarce, and more expensive. If (big IF) Russia was a normal society, the Government would have been kicked out a long time ago, even without the war.

jmreire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121960199#Comment_121960199

And what else would you expect from the Kremlin Factory of Lies, and the Goebbels handbook which says * The evil you do yourself, blame it on your enemies ".

SeanW

deleted post.

brickster69

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121961147#Comment_121961147

Seen as the head SBU head Vasyl Malyuk is the only one mentioned and he has personally admitted on telly to being involved in killings prior to Crocus, the government has been requested to hand him over, either they do that or refuse, then we will have to wait and see what happens after that.

eightieschewbaccy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121961511#Comment_121961511

He has been extremely effective at his job and that's why Putin is targeting him. The assassinations you're referring to relate to collaboration(personally divided on this but not remotely same as Moscow attack) rather than mass civilian killings. Has Russia produced any evidence of their claims? No? Then why are you treating it as if it's factual rather than propaganda.

Ironically enough, they announced this on the anniversary of the Bucha attack which amounted to genocide...

Wibbs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121960733#Comment_121960733

Same with nordstream pipeline, no main stream organisation printed the Sy Hersh expose despite his pedigree.

The same Hersh who claimed NATO's secretary general was working with the CIA in Vietnam? Pity he was barely a teenager when the Vietnam war ended… The same Hersh who claimed an un-named "American source" that used laughably Russian idioms? Hersh has a pedigree, and a fine one, but the tense would be better rendered as had. He went off the reservation long ago.

And why is it always the same nuke waving with Russians?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121961081#Comment_121961081

Breaking news!! 😱 Security chief organises attacks on enemy combatants behind enemy lines! Well I never…

Just a bit of a difference between that and dreaming up some convoluted attack on innocent civilians using unreliable forces, the use of which would almost certainly lose badly needed support among allies and play right into the Kremlin's hands. Look how the Kremlin are desperately trying to spin it now. Never mind some of those same allies(US and France) directly warning the Kremlin of a possible attack through back channels. A warning that was referenced, claimed as "blackmail" and then ignored. To the degree that the same allies went public with it.

BTW this isn't the first time such warnings have been shared. The US have even warned Iran of an ISIS attack. Putin himself thanked the US for a similar warning in 2019. Indeed Russia shared intel that warned of an attack in the US(Boston bombing), but US authorities didn't take enough notice of the risk. US authorities didn't then go on to claim Russia had anything to do with it as that would have been moronic.

And again let's throw logic to the wind and imagine that what the Kremlin says is all true. That the CIA/SBU organised this ISIS attack. Why didn't Russian security services not see it coming? Why did Russian security services not take note when the US publicly and through back channels warned them? Why didn't Russian security services not tighten up security around the openly stated targets just in case? Why did Russian security and emergency services take over an hour to respond to the attack in Russia's capital city? Why was Putin one of the last world leaders to make a statement condemning the attack in his own country? Regardless of who you believe was behind these attacks, one thing is abundantly clear; Russian security services massively screwed up, especially in a time of war, sorry SMO.

cnocbui

https://www.reuters.com/world/iran-alerted-russia-security-threat-before-moscow-attack-sources-say-2024-04-01/

Oh look, Iran warned the Orcs about a terrorist attack after torturing some people who did something in Iran.

The 'it was Ukraine angle is developing more holes than a colander'.

If you thought you had seen it all from the Orcs: https://www.reuters.com/business/retail-consumer/russias-baltika-sues-carlsberg-subsidiaries-over-900-mln-damages-2024-04-01/

You steal a company and then try and get the previous owners to give you almost a $1 billion as well over some mangled orc logic.

engineerws

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121961640#Comment_121961640

Hersh has won a record five George Polk Awards, and two National Magazine Awards. He is the author of 11 books, including The Price of Power: Kissinger in the Nixon White House (1983), an account of the career of Henry Kissinger which won the National Book Critics Circle Award.

He's probably the greatest living journalist and I found it strange that nobody would carry his story. You seem to dislike him, fair enough. The story being pushed now by the media is that Ukrainians on a sail boat destroyed the pipeline and not the Russian's destroying their own pipeline.

I don't know the answers to your questions. I've no Russian sources. Scott Ritter contends that the attack was intended for the day the US said when the Russian nationalist singer shaman was playing but the security was too tight. That's what he said and presumably that's what the Russian's are saying. All I can do is repeat what others say as I've no security contacts etc. maybe Putin allowed it to happen after his landslide reelection to enrage Russian's further and he blew up his own pipeline.

cnocbui

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121961511#Comment_121961511

Sounds like a serious matter all right. It should be dealt with right after the 125,000 war crimes on the books against the Orcs have been dealt with in the Hague.

randomuser02125

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121961697#Comment_121961697

Convicted paedophile Scott Ritter? Yes, couldn't imagine how he was compromised.

brickster69

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121961533#Comment_121961533

If the 4 accused Isis guys received payments then of course they would have to present that evidence if it has been tracked back to someone. Without that it is pointless to even speculate.

combat14

russia is only inviting even worse ISIS attacks upon itself by saying that it is Ukraine

jmreire

And now it seems that the US were not the only ones to warn Moscow of an impending terrorist attack…. Iran warned them as well. Be interesting to see how they will try to wriggle out of this one.

https://twitter.com/nexta_tv/status/1774756239982895275/photo/1

engineerws

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121961809#Comment_121961809

This what bard says.

Scott Ritter was convicted of a crime involving soliciting a minor in 2011. The legal term for this type of crime can vary by jurisdiction but it is a serious offense. In this case, he was communicating with an undercover police officer posing as a minor.

It's important to note that a conviction isn't proof of a person's thoughts or underlying mental state. However, due to the nature of the crime, he is considered a registered sex offender.

Very troubling.

Biden is helping starve children to death in Gaza and Putin has been convicted of genocide. Maybe we should dismiss everything the principal actors say as they are vicious criminals.

Wibbs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121961697#Comment_121961697

He's probably the greatest living journalist and I found it strange
that nobody would carry his story. You seem to dislike him, fair enough.

Was. Paul McCartney is probably the greatest living songwriter with an unmatched list of musical achievements, but he couldn't sit down and write Let it be today and hasn't gotten close to his peak in over 40 years. BTW this doesn't mean I "dislike" him either.

The story being pushed now by the media is that Ukrainians on a sail
boat destroyed the pipeline and not the Russian's destroying their own
pipeline.

I dunno what media you're reading, but that's been roundly dismissed as being extremely unlikely. If I were a betting man I'd say it wasn't the Russians, or the US and certainly not the Ukrainians, but Gazprom.

I don't know the answers to your questions. I've no
Russian sources.

You seem to be able to repeat said sources with remarkable accuracy.

Scott Ritter contends that the attack was intended for
the day the US said when the Russian nationalist singer shaman was
playing but the security was too tight. That's what he said and
presumably that's what the Russian's are saying.

I ignore all the guff about Ritter's personal life. It's a distraction. I prefer to look at his record on this conflict and that shows Ritter hasn't been right with any of his pronouncements since this war kicked off. Not a one. Even a stopped clock is right twice a day, Ritter couldn't even manage that. From his first denials that Russia would invade and accusing people who suggested it as idiots, to his boast that Ukraine would fall within weeks when they did, to his continuous claims that Ukraine would fall next week, over the last two years.

Lest we forget:

Note the dates. Oops… You could go back and read guys like Calloway and all the other usual crew who copy pasted the same stuff. Now I realise amnesia is built into Kremlin spin as a feature and seems to spread among its supporters out there, so this may come as a shock, but the interwebs doesn't forget.

All I can do is repeat
what others say as I've no security contacts etc. maybe Putin allowed it
to happen after his landslide reelection to enrage Russian's further
and he blew up his own pipeline.

You do keep going on about your lack of contacts. To what end I've no idea.🤷‍♂️ I also note you have avoided responding to questions about the failure of Russian security services to respond to this terrorist attack, never mind prevent it, given the clear warnings from its "enemies". It's amazing how the Kremlin apparatus has been so quick in following the trail after the fact and very conveniently pointing at Kiev, but even with warnings, warnings it's acted on before, it failed miserably at heading the attack off, or quickly responding to it. We've seen how quickly they can react to people holding up signs, but a terror attack that murdered nearly 200(likely higher) men women and kids?

eightieschewbaccy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121961828#Comment_121961828

But you're pretty clearly treating it as true. To date, Russia have not provided proof that Ukraine has anything to do with the attacks… So given their history of spreading nonsense, it's fair to treat it as nonsense until they provide verifiable evidence.

astrofool

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121961828#Comment_121961828

Do you think, in all honesty, that Ukraine paid these particular people to carry out this type of attack?

Field east

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121960714#Comment_121960714

would she/he not be a prime target the the Russian SS to listen in on their phone calls because , as you said , they are westernised , have good English, etc. of course they have to be very, very, very careful

brickster69

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121962065#Comment_121962065

Did you even bother to read what you quoted ?

" If the 4 accused Isis guys received payments then of course they would have to present that evidence if it has been tracked back to someone. Without that it is pointless to even speculate."

We do not even know if anyone actually sent payments to the attackers nevermind who they received it from. So how can anyone claim Ukraine did ?

If they have proof that someone sent funds to the attackers it will be presented to the UN and international courts in due course, if not then it is total rubbish.

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121962156#Comment_121962156

I'm not sure I've ever heard of terrorists who are 'mercenaries'. 99%+ of terrorists carry out attacks because they believe in what they are doing and feel it is the right thing to do. People being paid to carry out terrorist attacks would be a very strange and unusual departure.

volchitsa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121962079#Comment_121962079

I thought Telegram was safe, but I've no idea how true that is in Russia. And I suppose they may be extremely careful even though it probably is safe. I suppose there's no reason why she should take any potential risks, however hypothetical, just to satisfy my curiosity.

astrofool

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121962156#Comment_121962156

I'll take that as a no then, which make it even more baffling that you would post russian propaganda implying they were paid by Ukraine terrorists in the absence of any context (I honestly think you've muddled yourself up again by posting something that wasn't in any way credible and are now attempting to backtrack, but that's for you to mull over, again).

randomuser02125

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121961845#Comment_121961845

Being a convicted nonce is more than troubling. My guess is his 'interests' resulted in Russian kompromat, hence his propoganda rubbish.

brickster69

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121962243#Comment_121962243

How is a media release from the foreign office propaganda ? Surely it is an important thing to point out what they claim to have found from its investigation into the attack. If they kept quiet everyone would be saying they are trying to cover up something, especially the families of those killed.

Again, we need to wait for any proof to any claims to be made public.After all it has only been 10 days or so since it happened.

jmreire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121961511#Comment_121961511

So what if he was involved in these killings brickster? Do you have a problem with that, or are you trying to link it to the Crocus Killings? I don't know the truth or not of this, but the only comment that I have to make on it is this, I would approve 100% of Ukraine carrying out strikes like this as a preventative measure, because I do not class the Dugina's as innocent civilians. They have shaped this conflict with their lying propaganda and by doing so caused the deaths of many Ukrainians and the destruction of Ukraine. And as for the high moral ground comparison, Ukrainian lapses are the equivalent of a small ship navigating the ocean of Russian atrocities. I won't be shedding any tears for them anyway. Slava Ukraini.