How does social housing work ?

Ezeoul

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121945748#Comment_121945748

Whose hiding anything?

If the problems were as simple to resolve as you see to think, it would have been done already.

Unfortunately these are very complex issues.

ToweringPerformance

We live a council house in Dublin 16 and are very happy to have it. There are the usual few asshats but in general people are great and are just working and getting on with their lives. One thing that iv'e always fond strange though is we've been in the house for 16 years now and not once have we had the council drop by the house to check in on the condition and make sure everything is okay. We rented privately for 11 years before we moved into council housing and our landlords would always check up on the house every now and then. I just find it strange a landlord (the council) couldn't be bothered checking up on their let's face it very expensive assets the odd time it's very bizarre.

ToweringPerformance

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121944949#Comment_121944949

That other model is thankfully never coming back. One of the good decisions we've made as a country the last few decades was to knock that on the head. Our estate is part social, part private and it works really well.

Ezeoul

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121945840#Comment_121945840

Agreed. I think that responsibility would need to be changed before there will ever be any meaningful way of dealing with the minority who cause so much trouble. Like, three strikes and you're out. Give the LA's some actual teeth to deal with the problem.

The Student

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121945850#Comment_121945850

By and large anti social issues are a result of no consequences to those involved and initially it starts with a small number of individuals/families who destroy areas. If you deal with those small number of individuals/families then the problems are reduced.

The "hiding" was introduced under the part v requirement for planning approval. It makes no logical sense properties worth €600k/€700k being given over to the state if the only requirement is to house people. Logic would dictate the State could get the value equivalent to the part v requirement and use the funds to house more families. A single three bed in a high value are of say €600k under part v the value of same could be given to the State to purchase 2 €300k three bed houses and rather than housing one family in a €600k house you are now housing two families in two €300k houses.

Ezeoul

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121946201#Comment_121946201

You're preaching to the choir on the subject of actually dealing with the anti-social elements.

However, I still don't think that building hundreds or thousands of purely social housing estates is a model that works, or ever worked.

I think some people here never experienced living in, or maybe are not old enough to remember what it was like growing up in those estates in the 70s / 80s. It was grim. Some of them still are.

I don't have the solution to the issue of balancing Part V planning with private houses, and I agree that it would logically and economically make more sense to have "two houses for the price of one". But a balance needs to be found.

The Student

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121946306#Comment_121946306

Ok let me pose a question then. We hear of other countries in Europe where people of all incomes live in State owned properties and these arrangements are always used as justification for a similar arrangement in Ireland. Why can this work in other countries and not Ireland? Is it because of different cultural norms?

If this is the case then maybe our culture needs to change and actually punish those who do wrong. Why do you think people living in private estates are always nervous when they hear a social tenant is moving into a property?

Ezeoul

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121946352#Comment_121946352

Maybe you should ask the housing authorities in those countries what their arrangements are and how they differ to those in Ireland? I don't know how they operate.

"Why do you think people living in private estates are always nervous when they hear a social tenant is moving into a property?"

That's easy. It's simple prejudice. You just demonstrated it yourself.

However I would hope most people realise that not all social tenants are anti-social or make bad neighbours.

Likewise, not all private owners make good neighbours, not by a long stretch.

LetticebCivil

Just one thing. I live in a a government assisted house. Every time I get a raise i email the housing department and they up the rent. This year they did a check for peoples income so I was happy I was honest all along. Maybe they could do checks every year to make sure people that are working can give a little more.

The Student

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121946421#Comment_121946421

Its not up to me to ask those questions, I am not tasked nor employed to solve the housing situation others are.

Ah you are projecting, my experience is not prejudice but actual experience but nice try. I am well aware not all social tenants are anti social they are no different to those in private housing estates you get a mix in all but those in private housing estates have something to lose whereas those in social housing don't.

Sleepy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121946456#Comment_121946456

I know for a fact that the Dublin councils are engaging in annual rent assessments for their tenants for the past few years. Can't speak to the others but it's certainly policy that household incomes should be assessed annually and letters issued when dependents turn 18 (or 22 when they were still in full time education until that point).

LetticebCivil

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121946481#Comment_121946481

I am not in Dublin. The letter I got was the first one I got since moving in 5 years ago.

rob316

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121946201#Comment_121946201

But we don't build anything anymore, the entire housing policy of the country is farmed out to private developers so we the taxpayer can't control the costs. The ideal scenario is state sponsored housing built by the state available for everyone if they choose. Again this is a neo liberal state so there is zero chance of this happening. Property and specifically homes is a tool for wealth creation.

Creating deprived areas with mass social housing is thankfully a part of the past.

Ezeoul

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121946468#Comment_121946468

Its not up to me to ask those questions, I am not tasked nor employed to solve the housing situation others are.

And its not up to me to answer them. I am not tasked nor employed to solve the housing situation either.

Ah you are projecting, my experience is not prejudice but actual experience but nice try. I am well aware not all social tenants are anti social they are no different to those in private housing estates you get a mix in all but those in private housing estates have something to lose whereas those in social housing don't.

Yet you just demonstrated your prejudice again. Well done.

How dare those pesky social housing tenants devalue your asset.

Thelonious Monk

never understood how it worked with home repairs and stuff. if you want your rooms repainted or need a new cooker or fridge, or the toilet or boiler breaks, do the council pay for all that too?

Hawkeye123

I don't know about social housing but I know the housing market is rigged against anyone who wants to buy. For example, in yesterday's Daily mail it said houses for sale was at an all time low of 10,500 but in today's Indo it said the number of houses in long term arrears was 20,000 and David Hall wants to know if the 20000 defaulters should get the houses for free.

Putting them up for sale would triple the number of houses for sale on the market. Of course that would make houses affordable also and our government does not want that!

rob316

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121946720#Comment_121946720

Council look after anything structural and utilities i.e plumbing, electrical.

That's about it, in my time the only council maintenance was an annual gas boiler service and my gas boiler was a piece of crap needed alot of call outs. I replaced defective windows myself out of my own pocket which I had no problem doing.

ToweringPerformance

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121946456#Comment_121946456

Dun Laoighaire Rathdown ask us for proof of income every single year without fail. It may be different for different council areas though?

Mrs OBumble

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121945972#Comment_121945972

I don't know about other cities, but that is untrue in Galway: there are a number if estates where the council and or an AHB owns 100% of the houses, purchased straight from the developer.

ToweringPerformance

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121946720#Comment_121946720

Toilet/gas boiler is covered in essentials under our rental agreement. We are meant to be getting solar panels and new boiler/rads this summer actually as part of an upgrade to make the houses pass new regulations or so they've informed us.

They definitely don't do painting lol 😂

Thelonious Monk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121946863#Comment_121946863

they actually do do painting in some cases, my neighbours are council and got a heat pump and insulation installed as one of them qualifies for heat allowance, or whatever, and they painted the whole house inside and out as well as insulating.

but yeah i get you, they don't put a new coat on if it's looking weathered.

BlueSkyDreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121946860#Comment_121946860

Dublin also has new apartment complexes that are 100% social and even worse, are not even owned by the council.

Just rented from the developer, with the council liable for all costs.

Great use of tax payers money...not.

spillit67

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121946554#Comment_121946554

Eh we do build housing.

It just so happens to be significantly more expensive to build.

https://www.irishtimes.com/ireland/dublin/2023/02/15/dublin-city-council-pays-40-over-the-odds-for-social-housing-audit-finds/

Tendering rules and the all the bells & whistles requirements of social houses these days makes such a benefit negated.

The LDA may show an ability to deliver more at scale on larger sites, but remains to be seen. At the moment the best thing about the LDA is that they can unlock unused planning applications and deploy State capital.

Even back in the 1930s, who do you think built things. Do you think we had a vertically integrated system of home building from materials to design to construction?

There is no magic pill for housing. There are trade offs. We might have built a load of houses back in the day, but construction workers didn’t enjoy the rights they do today. The materials were also crap and lead to suboptimal builds. We didn’t build with services because that added to cost.

This is just a typically ill informed view of the world, couched is a poor understanding of the ideology you reference.

spillit67

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121946784#Comment_121946784

Well I don’t think the public wants that.

At least the ones loudest did not want enforcement against those at the bottom right up to the top (the O’Donnells in Dalkey).

This is partly why our interest rates were so high.

(And also because we regulated the banking industry to the point that it is an unattractive market for new entrants. Another well meaning attempt at fixing things that goes too far).

Perhaps there is a silent majority who do want these things to happen, but they haven’t been turning up to the ballot box since 2011 as every vote since has rewarded those who don’t want to make difficult decisions.

Citizen Six

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121911021#Comment_121911021

I think once you are on the list, the cap no longer applies. I know a guy who is on €53k salary, and is on the housing list, and keeps turning up his nose at places he's not happy with, due to their location.

rob316

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121946914#Comment_121946914

Of course it's going to be more expensive than private developers as it's a scale issue, the councils have had there responsibility delivering social homes diminished since 2008. We (the councils) built housing on mass for decades, history proved it can be done.

I've long said we need a state body that builds homes. Building homes should hold as much importance as health, emergency services.

Quitelife

Getting a house off the council guarantees you low rent for the rest of your days instead of spending all your money paying a mortgage, I don’t know how anyone earning less than 50k would take on paying a mortgage when you can get a council house albeit after a 4/5/6 year wait . You get your rent paid by HAP whilst your waiting for your house .

zell12

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121947001#Comment_121947001

False. The limit is based on net income. Singleton on €53k gets €37,378 net. Income max limit is €40k in Cork City, Dublin City, DLR, Fingal, Galway City, Co Meath, South Dublin, Co Kildare, Co Wicklow

Hawkeye123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121946931#Comment_121946931

Well, one thing is certain. The government will do whatever it can to keep house prices moving upwards. This may mean making foreclosures more difficult for banks, or easing lending standards or taxing building materials or providing fewer social housing than required to ensure shortages continue. But ultimately, market forces will decide what houses are worth. What could trigger this price discovery would be a major recession. Geopolitical risks therefore favour anyone who is waiting for value to appear in the Irish property market. A Trump victory in the US will attract multinationals back to the US. Another rise in inflation will be another value finder for housing.

Basically we need market forces to experience enough turmoil to overwhelm the government's ability to keep the market rigged. Once prices begin to fall in a substantial way, we may get a massive correction, bigger than the one they interrupted twelve years ago.

Citizen Six

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121947222#Comment_121947222

He's been on HAP for years, and is actively viewing places offered by his council. He's got one dependent living with him, a teenage daughter. So is he just not informing them of his change in circumstances the past three years?