How does social housing work ?

Ray Palmer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121911190#Comment_121911190

All my life I have heard people make claims about things they know nothing about or things they think they know about. Worked in a bar where prices were very low as it was actually a club and only sold selective products which were bought at a discount by not including other brands. Customer would say the spirits were watered down and swore it was true. I took the product in from the supplier and stocked the shelves and nothing was watered down but people still insisted it was true.

I ended up working with civil servants on their systems and they keep records of everything. An MP can certainly get a review of a case but have absolutely no power to change the process or outcome. If a mistake is made it will work out but nothing more. Been like that for decades. Claims of brown envelopes are complete nonsense in such cases. A civil servant is not going to standby and watch somebody get something unfairly not out of honour but because they can't do the same for their own families and it would have to pass by many civil servants to be awarded. Even a rumour will set people off to look up the records and they can report it with out ever giving away who they are.

I am sure you heard stores but they aren't true and impossible to happen. Would you believe a politician could get somebody unemployment benefits for a person without enough contributions? Unless they can reprogram the entire system they can't and the same applies for housing

victor8600

Yes, it is unfair that someone can get a council house and pay a tiny rent even if they are now earning good money. Personally, I think we should make it more fair by building many more council houses. As much as needed to allow everyone to get a council house somewhere within, say, 1 hour commute of their workplace. An I am saying this as a homeowner, I am happy to pay more in taxes for that.

So if a person is happy to pay a predictably small rent for a house that the council allocates to them, they shouldn't wait for many years. If a person can afford the flexibility of owning a house in the place of their choosing, they can take a mortgage.

Why would I support this scheme? Because I have few friends who work for medium wages in Dublin and are forced to live in squalid conditions sharing houses with others. They are in their late-30s and 40s, but they have no chance of getting a mortgage in Dublin, and no council house since they are earning relatively good salaries.

rob316

We are way behind countries like Austria when it comes to social housing, everyone should have the option to live in state housing. The whole thing needs an overhaul, rent should be deducted at source of employment or welfare. You should be able to rent a house from the state and have a good income, paying your fair share of rent. We live in a neo liberal state though, supporting vulture funds far more important.

DubCount

A question for the "social housing for all" opinions. What kind of social housing is adequate? Who gets the social housing flat in a dodgy area, and who gets the social house in leafy suburbia with nice views and nice neighbours?

ingo1984

Ive a cousin who is a detective in the guards, his partner is a teacher and them and their three kids got a brand new council house courtesy of her father who's one of the local county councillors.

victor8600

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121922206#Comment_121922206

Who decides that now? There is a queue, whenever any place is available, it is offered to people in the queue. A person can reject the offer, but then they have to wait longer.

maneno

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121908196#Comment_121908196

Are there no checks conducted? Surely the council should be able to liaise with other government bodies 🤦‍♀️

Ray Palmer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121922292#Comment_121922292

Go to the newspapers straight away and expose this as way more people were involved and they have apparently super natural powers

SharkMX

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121921353#Comment_121921353

The problem here is that social housing is top tier housing now. Best standards, best locations so its expensive, very expensive to build.

If you build the cheapest possible social housing and people either take them or get off the list then you would get far more people housed.

ELM327

On the social housing for all front, there's plenty of greenfield land around the M50 and near to orbital bus and or luas routes. I say, build thousands of social housing and make them available to anyone who wants one. Build in every county.

yourdeadwright

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121900868#Comment_121900868

There is a grant you can apply for to help you get the essentials if you get a new build off the council ,

No you do not automatically inherit a council house in Ireland but there is certain circumstance where you can become the tenant ,Its done on a case to case, Its now not as common as it once was,

dkRulez

An apartment near me will be handed over for social housing. I personally have no problem or concern. However, I am also very certain there would be 1-2 folks who would definitely create some problems. Are these houses allotted to them for life long? can residents complain against particular house which may be causing trouble?

Also, what are the different types of social houses? I know there are cost rental, traveler accommodation, affordable houses. What the key difference here?

GSBellew

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121921191#Comment_121921191

Do you realise that your friends on good money in Dublin could buy or rent in many places an hour from Dublin?

rob316

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121925051#Comment_121925051

That is just building standards and regulations now. We have always built top tier social housing and always in prime locations. Anything new I see go around cork city now is social, very little for the private market.

lucalux

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121927574#Comment_121927574

You can (and imo should) complain if there are real issues with a new council tenancy in your area

Means any issues can be nipped in the bud, and they can be supported or monitored more closely.

It's a system that suffers hugely when a small minority take the absolute mick

Some councils (not all, yet) have Housing Liaison Officers who would deal with problems in terms of anti-social behaviour, non-payment of rent, neighbourhood liaising and would action any referrals or involvement from other agencies needed such as HSE, Tusla, Gardaí

Ezeoul

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121925082#Comment_121925082

They've tried that.

That's what they did in the 70s and 80s with places like West Tallaght, Darndale, Ballymun, Clondalkin, Blanchardstown, Moyross, and 40 years later some of these places are still considered "bad" areas that people don't want to live in.

History has shown that building vast schemes of 100s (1000s?) of social housing only leads to social problems.

I don't know what the solution is, but that model doesn't work.

The Student

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121944818#Comment_121944818

Try holding people to account for anti social issues and we might get somewhere. Why don't we have as much anti social issues in private housing estates some of which are located beside social housing estates.

Ezeoul

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121944881#Comment_121944881

In a perfect world. Something that has also been tried over the last 40/50 years.

As someone who grew up in a vast area of social housing with one of the worst reputations in Dublin, I wouldn't like to see that model of vast estates of 100s or 1000s of social housing all lumped together ever again. People just dumped and left to deal with it. It's a breeding ground for social problems.

I own my own home now in a private housing estate, not far from where I grew up. There is a mix of some private renters, and some council bought homes. There are still some social issues. Not as highly concentrated, but they do exist. But whatever they are, its better than the other model.

ELM327

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121944818#Comment_121944818

No, they never tried it. It was never available to anyone who wants one. It came with a waiting list and a means test. I'm saying, make one house available to everyone. Only a habitual residence is required, meaning it must be your address with revenue and you must be tax resident there and you can't rent it out or sell it.

We pay high enough taxes, may aswell embrace this communist socialist nonsense. I'd wager comparing this to the amount we waste on HAP and one off payments etc , and include the amount of jobs created, this may not cost much more.

(No I'm not being sarcastic, I do think we should build housing for all and then let the private market continue for housing which is different to the standard state issued house (eg country house, farm, one off house etc). I'd stay in my country dwelling free of neighbors for instance, but others may prefer a free 3 bed semi.

Sleepy

I've done a lot of data analysis work on social housing in Ireland. There are two main issues that need to be addressed imho:

a) There should be no concept of maximum rent in differential tenancies: if someone who was formerly under the income thresholds does well in life, they shouldn't be getting subsidised rent from the state. If 16% of their household income pushes their rent beyond the market rent for the area, so be it: they can either source their own private accommodation or pay over the odds to the council in order to stay in the property (i.e. allowing the council to re-invest the "profit" into new social housing).

b) The "house for life" concept is incredibly inefficient. The amount of single pensioners or middle-aged couples knocking around in 3/4 bedroom council properties is an incredibly wasteful use of very limited resources. The councils have no way to compel those under-occupiers to downsize to more appropriate accommodation for their needs. That's not to say that some council's don't try to entice them into more suitably sized accommodation when they have some modern, better insulated apartments available but from the data I've seen very few of these offers are taken up by the tenants who feel entitled to remain in an over-sized property funded by the taxpayer because of their "ties to the community" (an option not available to most in the private rental / homebuyer sectors).

Ezeoul

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121944982#Comment_121944982

So literally no qualifying criteria other than habitual residence?

Watch the waiting lists go from 10+ years, to decades.

Every 18 year old applying for their own house the day they turn 18.

Yeah, that'll fix it.

ELM327

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121945257#Comment_121945257

Make the age 25 or something, or a minimum number of PRSI credits or the like.

But I'm saying do that change along with taxpayer investment in house building, like we did before the 90's.

Ezeoul

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121945264#Comment_121945264

You originally said no qualifying criteria other than habitual residence.

You haven't really thought this out.

rob316

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121945072#Comment_121945072

On your 2nd point, absolutely the house stock is under occupied all over. When I was in a council house before I bought, I looked into a mutual swap where you could upsize while the other party downsizes, there is schemes in place to facilitate this but council I dealt with it really knew nothing about it and said it's incredibly rare it's successful. That was really disappointing, so much should be invested into this and every tenant should be made aware of such schemes. Managing the existing stock more efficiently could significantly bring down housing and transfer waiting lists.

Ralph_GM

Sorry to sway off topic slightly, but how come any time people criticise social housing tenants for being poor tenants etc. you get a swarm of people saying they work too and they're just like everyone else.

If that's the case then why is it policy not to have social housing only developments?

ELM327

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121945273#Comment_121945273

I havent thought it out, no. It's just a notion, which arises from being pissed off as a taxpayer wasting billions of euro every year on hap and housing, while getting nothing for it. At least building houses gets something for it. HAP is an artificial market floor which goes into the pockets of private landlords because the government of the day since the 90's is incompetent when it comes to actual social housing.

Ezeoul

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121945310#Comment_121945310

Because the minority spoil it for the majority. And for whatever reason, the Local Authorities, Gardaí etc, do scene completely unable to deal with the antisocial behavior of the minority effectively.

Ezeoul

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121945327#Comment_121945327

That I can agree with you on.

It is very frustrating.

The Student

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121945596#Comment_121945596

Then deal with the cause of the issue don't try hide it.

Sleepy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121945596#Comment_121945596

There's a "Catch 22" which works against the councils in their ability to tackle anti-social behaviour: if they manage to get a court order to evict a tenant, they're responsible for re-housing that individual as they go back onto the waiting list (presumably with a "homeless" priority status).