Fired from bar-job for not charging staff full price of pints

Allinall

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121879285#Comment_121879285

There is absolutely a lower end of the scale.

Are you seriously saying that undercharging a couple of pints is on the same level as, say making off with the takings on a Saturday night of €20k?

Do you think a court would give equal punishment for both offences?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121879285#Comment_121879285

Ah here man I agree with the employer to sack him yeah but cmon it’s not that big of a deal either.

Like Allinall said he didn’t make off with the til after a Saturday night. He shorted a few quid on pints. Absolutely stupid thing to do but hardly crime of the century.

I think rather than the OP needs to be more hard on him I think you need to take a step back and have a look at how you’re jumping down a strangers throat over their choice of words.

He bent some rules and took the piss. That’s what he did.

canihelp

As a final-year student, your son will not need to use this employment as a reference if he is going for a job in line with his qualifications (assuming it is not hospitality). He can list it on a CV with the duties carried out. He can also state he left due to college pressures. He will have Lecturers and other staff who can give him a reference in line with his academic attainments.

He can learn a lesson from this and realise he had obviously not heeded other warnings about behaviour, he will need to reflect on this and be more mindful and careful in the future.

Jim2007

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121879743#Comment_121879743

Every single thief I met in course of doing audits and fraud investigations had come up with some excuse to justify their behaviour:

• It was only a small amount
• Everyone does it
• I'm not well paid
• I should have got a bonus
• ...

But the fact remains - they stole from their employer and that has a couple of side effects:

• It means other employees come under suspicion
• It impacts the moral of the team
• Employers loose money
• Customers pay high prices

And every employer I met took it very serious because people graduate to bigger crimes and others join in if they see someone else getting away with it.

Wanderer2010

Wow some people on this thread really need to get a life. He's 18 and he got fired from his first job. Big deal, you would swear he was Daniel Kinihan the way some people are reacting. Take it on the chin and move on. This happens all the time. Some boardsies really worship their employer and live to work. I thought that was an American cultural thing but many Irish people really think their job is their sole defining characteristic. Very sad really. At the end of the day it's just money and if you dropped dead tomorrow they wouldn't even know your name! Some perspective badly needed.

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121880379#Comment_121880379

My son worked in the bar trade going to college. he worked in 2-3 different establishments. It was common practice for staff to have one free drink after there shift was over. they did not have any more as they were all driving and those on N liciences did not have any

This young lad gave two other workers a pint at glass prices. Now with how hard its to get decent staff I am surprised the manager threw the clothes off himself. TBH its sound like a sh!thole of a place, what more surprising is that it happened after three years working there. I wonder was the manager on an ego trip or just trying to make an example if it was common practice there or if he was trying to make an example and picked a lad that would be finishing up in 3-6 months anyway.

Not sure if the case went to the WRC how it would be looked at. There was no benefit to him in what he done. Resturants and pubs do not need to find excuses to price gouge at present. Got a pint in Lowary's near Croke Park for 5.5 euro a few weeks ago, same night the young lad paid over a tenner in another establishment in Dublin.

My son worked for 2-3 weeks in a sh!thole of a place in Galway, the manager was fiddling the tips and not paying for all the hours worked. He had to ring the owner to get his money sorted when he finished up.

Good staff are hard to find, anyone can hire donkeys that can only do one drinks order at the time. Experienced staff in any sector are valued. the margin on drink and food is huge.

No sane person would describe this as serious offence on a scale of 1-5 for theft it barely a 1

Capt. Autumn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121879535#Comment_121879535

Ah thanks for that. You're right, I am pretty laid back and don't believe in being too judgemental when someone makes a mistake. We're all human. Maybe if you removed that rod that's stuck a mile up your hole you might chill out a little too.

Clo-Clo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121880485#Comment_121880485

The person stole, rating the level of theft is odd to say the least.

Not sure how you can figure out from a single post if the person in question is "Good staff" or a "donkeys"

By the way, plenty of good staff will only work on one order at a time.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121880485#Comment_121880485

How do you know he was "good staff"

Don't forget your only getting one second hand side of a story.

kirving

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121879285#Comment_121879285

OP puts up a post that his son knows what he did was wrong and its still picked apart like it's in the supreme court...

Noone is a robot, and whether it was morally right or wrong is far more dependent on the culture of the place then the law. It may have been completely normal practice in the bar among other staff, so he didn't understand how management would actually take it when they found out.

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121881084#Comment_121881084

Well he worked there 3 years. Its highly unlikely that after surviving that long he was useless.

What else can we desiminate from what we were told. The manager send out the duty manager to summarily dismiss him. Its unusual the manager did not do it himself.

I wonder how long this manager was in place. Was he recently put in charge and had he an issue with some that longer serving staff

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121881063#Comment_121881063

Well how do you rate it. He did not benefit, and looking at pub margins the pub was probably not at a loss either

On the scale what he did was a 1

2. Having a pint yourself if it's not allowed

3 taking a few can for a party

4 taking a few bottles of spirits to sell or swiping a 20 out of the till

5 Mugging the manager or owner when they are leaving with the nights takings or giving information to criminals to do it.

You could add in other more serious acts that are not related to stealing directly from owner, dealing drugs or helping sone one deal them. Leaving a wet floor so someone you know will slip on it for a compo claim.

Like I said on a scale on 1-5 it's a one

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121881372#Comment_121881372

It’s not strange at all actually. Where I work for example the GM will ask the Duty Manager to deal with staff if necessary or the head of dept (head/sous chef in kitchen, bar manager at bar etc) for more minor issues.

Worked in plenty of very well known and respected hotels and again the GM was hardly seen or heard from and they certainly didn’t get their hands dirty sacking people.

The head of dept or duty manager would have a meeting with the GM and if the decision is to sack them that would be handled by the head of dept or DM.

Actually don’t think I’ve ever heard or seen anyone sacked directly on the spot by a General Manager.

Also I don’t know where or when you worked in hospitality but it’s certainly not my experience either that staff regularly not to mention nightly have a drink on the house after shift.

Last two places I’ve worked were much smaller than before and we had the offer of a drink from the owner in one spot and GM in the current place after a heavy night. Staff can have a drink after work but they don’t get for free and no one would undercharge unless they don’t want to work there anymore.

Maybe I just work with decent people but it’s definitely not my experience that bars, hotels or restaurants tolerate staff stealing. I don’t think if I asked anyone I’ve worked with did they ever experience a place that allowed a free drink after work I would find a single yes tbh.

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121881311#Comment_121881311

OP asked "Was the firing fair or excessive? Does my son have grounds for appeal and what are the chances he would be successful?"

The lad stole, minor as some may see it, but he still stole and the OP is looking for an out for the young fella. Plus he was working there for a number of years so he surely knew the normal practices.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121881372#Comment_121881372

I didn't say useless I said "good staff"

Charles Babbage

There are a lot of comments about not being able to buy for your mates, and that is inevitable. In this case beneficiaries were also employees and it was they who had the benefit of the cheap drink, a scenario where the OP's son get sacked and the other two carry on could be regarded as unbalanced.

Clo-Clo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121881372#Comment_121881372

As you admitted it is hard to find staff. As the OP mentioned he was on multiple warning.

Stealing is stealing.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121881430#Comment_121881430

I worked in the industry but only for a short period. Giving out drinks to staff after closing time and then sending them off in cars as suggested wouldn't be something I could see any decent establishment recommending. Long shift, maybe not getting to eat much, tired etc etc. Alcohol as we all know can affect people different so it would be very irresponsible of a manager/owner to hand out free pints if people are driving.

Now arranged event with taxis etc I would expect.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121881551#Comment_121881551

ah last two places would offer you a drink after a busy service or weekend like Easter or Christmas Eve didn’t have to be alcohol and no one driving was taking chances so no harm tbh.

The poster I was replying to recounts an experience of working in many places where staff regularly had a free drink after work. Just can’t say that’s been my own experience and doesn’t seem to be yours either.

Clo-Clo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121881670#Comment_121881670

Working with alcohol and giving alcohol to employee’s everyday after work. I wouldn’t think that is a great idea, but just rehashing the same point so I think we agree 🤣🤣

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121881684#Comment_121881684

about as good an idea as undercharging other staff with a manager near 🤣

danfrancisco83

I've worked in a lot of bars for a long time, thankfully out of it now. One thing I realised is that all publicans/proprietors are insanely paranoid. They think everyone is out to rob them.

After all, how did they get the money to start their own pubs back in the day.

deirdremf

It's a very long time since I worked in a bar, but in those days it was quite normal to finish up with a drink on the house.

I appreciate that things may have changed in the interim, but I'd say the OP's son is well out of that job, the manager sounds like a complete see you next tuesday. Unless the reality of the situation is the OP's son actually has sticky fingers, I would be unsurprised to find that the manager starts to find he has difficulties holding onto staff if this is his attitude.

Jim2007

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121881704#Comment_121881704

And that would be because there are very few people that don't steal from their employers! It actually comes down to what level the employer is willing to tolerate. Take an extra 15 mins on your breaks every day and the amounts to more than a weeks wages extrapolate that across a work force of say 100 people and it's two years salary. Pens, pads and other stationary from the stationary cupboard, sure you only take 3 or 4 a year but again that comes down to several hundred when spread a cross the work force. Often a pallet or more stationary per year.

_Brian

So it seems it’s a slam dunk he was caught essentially stealing from the business.

his only grounds for anything are procedural, how it was handled. It’s not a proud position as no matter what, he was stealing from the company.

Clo-Clo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121881689#Comment_121881689

THe question here and of course we will never get the answer was the person in question doing this for other people? seen that trick before used in pubs before, order 5 drinks and charge for 5 drinks, most people won't notice unless watching out that the 5 drinks charged for are lower than the actual cost of the drink.

It less noticeable than giving out free drinks, in this case ordering a pint and paying for a half, for second row you have got a free pint.

If he done it this time and was in the pub for a long time, seems strange he suddenly decided just to do it this day.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121881716#Comment_121881716

You have heard one side of the story and even that biased view admitted the person in question had a number of run in's.

Not sure why it would be a managers/owners fault when a staff member is caught stealing and lets them go.

SharkMX

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121873726#Comment_121873726

Most thieves say that the time they were caught was their first. More likely they were doing it for a long time and cost the company a lot of money before the one where they were caught. What if they gave him a reference that said the truth.

"Worked here as a bar man until we caught him thieving". That would be the truth.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121881947#Comment_121881947

Take an extra 15 min on your break every day wherever I’ve worked you’ll be sent home after the break.

To find a new job of course.

Mrs OBumble

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121885303#Comment_121885303

Agreed. But there are industries where it's common enough (I've worked in one, where everyone did it - me included - because it was the culture of the place. Not something I'm proud of, but when you're in there, it's just "normal".

deirdremf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121882386#Comment_121882386

You have heard one side of the story

Yes, and my response in in relation to that story, and some of the responses.

YOU have heard one side of the story too, are you basing your responses on that or on something else entirely?

BTW - what did the lad steal? What I read is that he charged staff for a drink that in most places in my day would have been provided free as part of the 'benefits' at the end of a shift.

Clo-Clo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121888804#Comment_121888804

But it's not one of the benefits. So it's stealing.

You can't just invent the benefits you want in a job based on what you think they should give you.