Trans Women's Milk Just as good as mothers breast milk - threadbans in OP

MilkyToast

Most of the people who are for this have conceded that "there is no evidence of harm" is the best supporting statement they have (because studies have not been done, because until yesterday this would have been considered madness and child protective services would have rightly taken great interest in anyone who tried it).

Aside from all of the discussion about whether a male (of any identity) can, through the use of synthetic hormones, produce a high enough quantity (highly unlikely) or quality (highly unlikely) of galactorrhea secretions to sustain a newborn through infancy, it is a wildly insane and dangerous position to be in where some in our society will advocate the potential mistreatment and harm of a vulnerable and entirely dependent child on the basis "there's no evidence of the harm nobody's ever looked for" in order to 'affirm' the proclaimed identity of an adult.

I'm sure there are enough plucky trans-identifying males out there to get proper, larger-scale studies done on expressed galactorrhea secretions. Let's get the evidence first, and make decisions when the verdict is in. Until then, a male (of any gender identity) trying to feed a newborn, is (at best) playing dangerously loosely with the health and wellbeing of the child.

Rubberchikken

Men are men.

Women are women.

Nothing else to it fgs

volchitsa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121793576#Comment_121793576

The fact that some humans are born with congenital anomalies does not indicate that those anomalies are part of the normal range of "healthy" humans. Similarly, the fact that a tiny number of humans are born with both sets of genital organs does not change the fact that humans, like all mammals, are a dimorphic species.

Sex really is binary - despite the existence of the occasional congenital defect.

Ten of Swords

@Cordell threadbanned

amacca

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121794220#Comment_121794220

That was my reading

There's no evidence because we haven't done enough tests to confirm if a trans woman's chest liquid dies contain colostrum etc etc....

Id suspect when they do it won't be equivalent in quantity or quality either...but what do I know!

Ten of Swords

@jmayo threadbanned

One eyed Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121794591#Comment_121794591

Apart from anything else, you’re wildly overestimating the resources any State body with responsibility for children’s welfare has at their disposal in order to investigate the cases you might be referring to, they don’t have the resources to investigate circumstances where there are reports substantiated by compelling evidence of children at risk, let alone are they likely to show any interest in cases where there is no evidence that children are at risk. The Courts have an incredibly high barrier that must be overcome in any case before they will consider that any case warrants the removal of a child from the family home - it’s not generally in the best interests of the child to do so.

Let's get the evidence first, and make decisions when the verdict is in. 

How do you propose such evidence is gathered if you’re proposing that parents be prohibited from breastfeeding their own children until such a point where it is determined by others that sufficient evidence has been gathered? Bit of a catch 22 situation there while you expect that parents are going to wait around while someone else makes decisions about their ability to care for their own children.

That’s not even getting into the discussion about the fact that under Irish and European law there’s that whole respect for private and family life thing that stands in the way of your ability to force other people to adhere to your standards in the provision of care for their own children. There’s plenty of evidence of the outcomes of what you’re suggesting and how those decisions have generally turned out for individuals, families and society - it suggests the outcomes generally aren’t positive, which is why your idea is a non-starter, apart from all the other reasons why it just wouldn’t be feasible.

nachouser

You're over thinking this. It's just another nasty anti-trans thread.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121793704#Comment_121793704

I dunno where you’ve been used to getting your milk from. Maybe USA sort of standards for all I know 🧐 having said that the State of Hawaii has some bovine produce!

Coolcormack1979

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121793686#Comment_121793686

hense the saying as useless as tits on a bull

MilkyToast

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121794899#Comment_121794899

How do you propose such evidence is gathered?

By expressing (pumping) the galactorrheal secretions of trans-identifying males and measuring the quantity, quality and hormone content of them to see if they constitute nutritious human milk that can be produced at sufficient quantity and with low enough hormone/medication content that it could nourish a human infant without adverse effects.

I would have thought that would be pretty obvious.

under Irish and European law there's that whole respect for private and family life thing that stands in the way

The rights of the child and the right of the state to intervene where the child's parent(s) are derelict in their duty to the extent that the child's safety and wellbeing are likely to be prejudicially affected were put into the constitution in 2015 after the 2012 referendum.

A child's safety and wellbeing are prejudicially affected by malnutrition.

So let's do the research and find out if male galactorrheal secretions can do the job.

I will still be disgusted by any adult using the nutrition of their child to affirm their gender identity, but my personal disgust is no reason that other people should not do things - once they are proved to not be taking undue risk with society's most vulnerable.

Real Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121795010#Comment_121795010

Indeed, and the unfortunate thing is that is not helping the lgb community one bit. The plus side is causing the problems and doing alot damage to their cause.

Large bottle small glass

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121793822#Comment_121793822

It's critical for trans ideologues though; because of this very rare condition sex isn't binary hence there is an infinite number.

Everything else is faith based, so they hold onto it.

Similar here, I haven't read the whole thread but has anyone linked the scientific paper? What did they compare? Just macro and micro nutrients? Did they test for live cultures, check for residual hormones etc etc.

Google scholar is full of papers showing the benefits of mother's milk, for all types of reasons.

It'll need very substantial evidence to say they are similar.

I know where my money is.

And FFS there is no such thing as a male cow.

Annasopra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121794938#Comment_121794938

Exactly. In another month or two there'll be yet another trans bashing thread.

There's an unhinged obsession with 0.02% of the population on this site.

One eyed Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121795021#Comment_121795021

Good luck finding volunteers for that study when you’re suggesting they could be subject to prosecution for child neglect. Under what you’re proposing it would be impossible to gather evidence of anything, that’s why it wasn’t obvious how evidence would be gathered if it were prohibited for parents to breastfeed their children with the idea that doing so could possibly constitute child neglect.

There would have to be evidence of malnutrition or neglect, and those criteria already apply regardless of parents decisions regarding breastfeeding or other means of ensuring their children are healthy and safe. The States track record in that regard doesn’t lend itself to the idea that they are capable of providing the necessary resources to support children in the care of the State.

NoMoreDonegalTuesdays

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121794282#Comment_121794282

Who on earth takes the anti-trans cult seriously?

Does the anti-trans movement expect to be taken seriously with figureheads like Graham Linehan (calls those he disagrees with Nazis, crossdresses so he can set up his own fake trans dating profile), Jordan Peterson (hysterical drug addict) and Posie Parker (allies with actual Nazis)?

NoMoreDonegalTuesdays

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121794260#Comment_121794260

There's no such thing as reason in the anti-trans cult, only hysterical slogans, pretend outrage and lies.

nullzero

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121795294#Comment_121795294

What's the anti trans cult?

One eyed Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121795138#Comment_121795138

Everything else is faith based, so they hold onto it. 

…

I know where my money is.

Well that’s not faith based at all, is it? 🤔

And of course Google Scholar is choc-a-bloc with papers showing the benefits of mother’s milk, given that was the objective of most of the research into the benefits of breastfeeding over other alternative methods of nutrition for infants such as animal or plant based formula feed:

https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/baby/breastfeeding-and-bottle-feeding/bottle-feeding/types-of-formula/

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121793939#Comment_121793939

The person equating them to unicorns and mermaids.

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121794650#Comment_121794650

What are your credentials to smear them as unhealthy

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121795178#Comment_121795178

And people offended by “cis” as though it were some form of pejorative that threatened their lives.

_Knight

After all these years, Jack finally gets an answer.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FXI21S4ZWJU

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121795010#Comment_121795010

Do you view yourself as some kind of culture warrior or something? What diatribe.

NoMoreDonegalTuesdays

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121794005#Comment_121794005

It seems quite hypocritical for you to rear up in outrage at the label cis male when you don't seem apply much respect to trans people who ask to be referred to by their preferred pronouns.

Hoboo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121795178#Comment_121795178

Similar to those on this site with an unhinged obsession with Enoch Burke.

Annasopra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121795397#Comment_121795397

It's manufactured outrage over nothing signicant at all.

kowloon

Has anyone addressed the elephant in the room, flavour?

NoMoreDonegalTuesdays

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121795411#Comment_121795411

The only people who have an unhinged obsession with Enoch Burke are those who support him. Everybody else looks at him like Mrs. Doyle reacted when she saw Father Stone sitting on the couch.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121794938#Comment_121794938

Right so