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Casement Park watch.

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13

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    #62
    event
    Registered Users Posts: 15,978 ✭✭✭✭event


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121850205#Comment_121850205

    The govt gave money to develop Windsor Park. Do you think it should be opened up to GAA?



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    #63
    awec
    Administrators Posts: 53,369 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121848330#Comment_121848330

    If this was Windsor Park there would be no complaints from the Unionist parties or the people who vote for them. There is one reason for the outrage and that is pure sectarianism.

    I think this is a fairly reductive way of looking at the situation to be honest, but it's unfortunately all too common when it comes to discussing controversial issues in the north. Both sides are experts at playing games with the messaging here. People against the project can display faux-outrage at the costs, and people for the project can claim that anyone against it is just a bigot.

    Look, there are without question a ton of people who hate the GAA hiding behind things like the cost to avoid having to say they just don't want the GAA getting anything. Only a fool would argue otherwise.

    But genuinely, is there not real questions to be asked here? Hundreds of millions for a stadium when the north is in the state that it is? Honestly, people will say that the arguing over this stadium is indicative of the basket case status of northern politics, but I think there's an argument to be made that the fact this idea hasn't been laughed out of the room is an even bigger indicator of the absurdity of how the north works at this point.

    Does anyone really think that if the 26 counties were under the same financial pressures as the north that there'd be nobody questioning a decision down here to give hundreds of millions to the GAA for a stadium that it's really doing quite fine without right now? I'd be disappointed if there weren't huge questions.

    I honestly don't buy the notion there'd be no questions if it were Windsor Park. Yea some of the people complaining today would be quiet, but not all of them, and I am absolutely certain that people on the other side of the political divide would be asking the same questions.

    The GAA need to get their slice of the pie of money that was promised years ago, no question on that, but the more this saga trundles on the more I am thinking this Euro story is pie in the sky and these plans need a dose of reality.

    The GAA sticking their fingers in their ears and insisting they won't pay up just isn't going to work IMO. Neither the Irish nor the British government will absorb these sort of costs, they'd get slammed for it.



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    #64
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 66,906 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121850599#Comment_121850599

    The money is not being taken from funds that would find their way to NI for health etc though. It isn't how it works.

    We have heard the 'it would be better spent...' argument many times. It is another convenient way to hide real motivations.

    Personally I think the GAA are bargaining with the 15m stance. It's not their fault the project got delayed so long



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    #65
    awec
    Administrators Posts: 53,369 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121850653#Comment_121850653

    Does it really matter if the money is intended for NI or not though? Whether or not that money would be spent on something else in NI, or something else in Scotland, or something else in England, I don't think it really matters?

    As to being their fault, it's not entirely their fault but they are not blameless. They went in initially with grand plans and tried to railroad residents, and it cost them a lot of time.



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    #66
    downcow
    Registered Users Posts: 11,092 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121850595#Comment_121850595

    The GAA have used Windsor, and I am not aware of any symbols etc at Windsor that would cause a chill factor. Windsor is also situated in a very diverse area. I also don’t think there are any naming issues at any football grounds in the north.



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    #67
    downcow
    Registered Users Posts: 11,092 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121850518#Comment_121850518

    Exactly. At £300 million stadium should be something that everyone feels welcome attending, and there should be no signs of sectarianism in it or around it.



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    #68
    downcow
    Registered Users Posts: 11,092 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121850653#Comment_121850653

    So whose fault is it that the project was delayed? Whoever they are, maybe they should pay the extra money



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    #69
    event
    Registered Users Posts: 15,978 ✭✭✭✭event


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121850834#Comment_121850834

    What do you mean naming issues?



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    #70
    downcow
    Registered Users Posts: 11,092 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121850906#Comment_121850906

    I mean that gaa has a big problem with clubs and grounds named after terrorists. Football doesn’t have this issue or chill factor.



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    #71
    event
    Registered Users Posts: 15,978 ✭✭✭✭event


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121850917#Comment_121850917

    Yeah. The name Windsor has never done anything wrong in history.

    Mother of Jesus you couldn't make this up.



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    #72
    downcow
    Registered Users Posts: 11,092 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121850995#Comment_121850995

    Now what exactly do you mean by that?



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    #73
    event
    Registered Users Posts: 15,978 ✭✭✭✭event


    You're a grown up, I'm sure you can figure it out



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    #74
    ShamoBuc
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 32,346 CMod ✭✭✭✭ShamoBuc


    Mod Note

    No more of the Sectarianism/Windsor history/Terrorists commentary please, this thread will not descend into that off topic commentary.

    Plenty of areas for that kind of chat outside of the GAA Forum.



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    #75
    Francis McM
    Registered Users Posts: 2,712 ✭✭✭Francis McM


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121841190#Comment_121841190

    I cannot see the Tory govt coughing up that massive shortfall either. I think Mary Lou McD. put another nail in coffin in the bid for a large redevelopment of Casement Park by Mary Lou McDonald with her speech in America last weekend. As part of her rant she laid in to the British government, saying things like "Tory governments in London never cared for the people of the north of Ireland". Kinda hard to go looking for extra money off the Tory government when you bad mouth them like that behind their back, I am sure Sunak thinks he is already spending enough billions in Ireland every year.



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    #76
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 66,906 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121851851#Comment_121851851

    Mary Lou is not looking for the money, it's a GAA development.



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    #77
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121851851#Comment_121851851

    +1.

    The Tories have used the example of HS2 in relation to potential costs for this project. If that's not flying the kite about this, I don't know what is.



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    #78
    Francis McM
    Registered Users Posts: 2,712 ✭✭✭Francis McM


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121851858#Comment_121851858

    Of course, Sinn Fein raised more than €1 million in the United States last year, and none of it went to the GAA. It was her comments last weekend though that made it even harder for Sunak to come up with even more money for Casement. Why would he when he and his party are continually insulted. Mary Lou McD just put another nail in the coffin. I do not think there will be a new 300 million stadium now, cannot see it.

    Post edited by Francis McM on


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    #79
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 66,906 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121852001#Comment_121852001

    A rather naïve take on it tbh.

    it will come down to what it always has come down to regarding Ireland - what's in it for the Tories.



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    #80
    oisinog
    Registered Users Posts: 244 ✭✭oisinog


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121850043#Comment_121850043

    I agree its not the GAA's responsibility to provide a stadium to provide a stadium for other events, but this is something that they have committed to do, I would love to say the optimistic me would be to promote the sports, but really this is to get another revenue scheme to ensure that there is an income into the stadium and the GAA in general. Overall this will have benefits for Belfast in general as there will be employment, income into bars for these big events. This overall will have a longer term benefit to Belfast.



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    #81
    Francis McM
    Registered Users Posts: 2,712 ✭✭✭Francis McM


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121852141#Comment_121852141

    That is a rather naive take on it. Governments all around the world spend money the whole time without it coming down to "whats in it" for that political party. You are not suggesting our Irish FF/FG government are just after committing 50 million in this one project in this one area because of whats in it for the FF/FG government?

    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121850599#Comment_121850599

    A few good points there. I agree the GAA need to get their slice of the pie of money that was promised years ago, no question on that, but the more this saga trundles on the more I am thinking this Euro story is pie in the sky and these plans need a dose of reality.



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    #82
    oisinog
    Registered Users Posts: 244 ✭✭oisinog


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121850599#Comment_121850599

    Awec I would love to think it was no other reason that Sectarianism, you only have to look at the people on twitter or listen to Nolan to see who is leading the charge against Casement. Granted that is not a full cross section of the community. A lot of people I know from the non GAA community are keen on seeing the development going ahead as some of them can see what it will bring to the city.

    As a keen Ulster fan that I am and I know you are having a second stadium in Belfast would have been a helpful for Ulster after the frozen pitch incident of last year.

    We need to start thinking bigger picture and make Northern Ireland an go to place for sport we are already attracting people for Golf we need to expand that and look for Europa league finals, American Football.

    This country will never grow if we don't finance it properly and sometimes that has to be outside health and education.

    Interesting figures came out this morning that active travel (people walking and cycling to work) in Northern Ireland has saved the NHS £9m imagine if something like casement encouraged more people into sport how much more it could save the NHS

    Post edited by oisinog on


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    #83
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 66,906 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121852230#Comment_121852230

    Yes, the Irish government would certainly have assessed what is in it for them.

    It's in furtherance of their aim to encourage growth and benefits for NI and the overall package of funding is aimed at growing the all Ireland economy. Which is beneficial to them and all of us.

    The Tory's will assess it in the same way. With one added ingredient - the selfishness of this particular Tory government will be a factor.



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    #84
    Francis McM
    Registered Users Posts: 2,712 ✭✭✭Francis McM


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121852324#Comment_121852324

    Well, as someone else said, the GAA sticking their fingers in their ears and insisting they won't pay up just isn't going to work. 300 million and rising is a lot of money. Neither the Irish nor the British government will absorb these sort of costs, they would get slammed for it. A modest stadium yes, but not one for 300 million, it is not 2006 Celtic Tiger times.



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    #85
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 66,906 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121853391#Comment_121853391

    Not that expensive for a new stadium. Tottenham Hotspur recently built a stadium for 1.2bn and Wembley cost 786 million.

    A major city stadium capable of holding any event thrown at it for 300million is small change in the scheme of things.



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    #86
    threeball
    Registered Users Posts: 7,939 ✭✭✭threeball


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121852142#Comment_121852142

    Outsized stadium don't do any good for a sport. You only have to look at Croke Park to see the amounts of complaints about atmosphere at everything up to semi finals due to the place being half full. In Antrims case they won't even 1/4 fill it. It'll drive people away rather than draw them in. Any benefit from the odd concert or event will be lost in operating costs. Again, look at the upkeep on Croker, changing out all the seats is costing millions alone. The expenditure is crazy and that would be used extensively outside of match days including the museum, corporate etc. Any stadium that sits idle decays. If you really want GAA to flourish in Belfast, instead look for a high quality appropriately sized stadium and funds pumped into local clubs. When UEFA are gone in July they won't give a flute about Casement or Belfast.



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    #87
    threeball
    Registered Users Posts: 7,939 ✭✭✭threeball


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121853434#Comment_121853434

    Tottenham is nearly 63K capacity and has 2 interchangeable sliding pitches, Wembley is over 90K capacity and the feature ground for the FA. €300 million for a stadium that will be full 3 times is absolute lunacy.



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    #88
    breezy1985
    Registered Users Posts: 24,390 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121852001#Comment_121852001

    The Tories can't really be insulted by Sinn Fein because because Sinn Fein are irrelevant in England now. Very very few will have even heard of Mary Lou never mind what she said.

    This Tory government are in complete disarray and are putting out fires all over the place so between their Rwanda nonsense and attempts at budgets that their own watchdogs are saying will sink the country they have no time to be caring about some "foreign" stadium.

    I was all for it but it's time to pack it in and build a good 15k ground for Antrim.



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    #89
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 66,906 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121853482#Comment_121853482

    Well I think they's be looking at multiple events. A programme of gaelic, American Football, big rugby + soccer and concerts.

    For a piece of infrastructure capable of delivering the above I don't think it is massive money tbh. What it would repay to the city and the surrounds would be huge and the price would soon be forgotten.



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    #90
    threeball
    Registered Users Posts: 7,939 ✭✭✭threeball


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121853520#Comment_121853520

    Then the city should deliver it, not the GAA. As a GAA stadium its not sustainable and completely out of whack with what Antrim require. The Athletic grounds in Armagh is closer to what Antrim should be aiming for.



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    #91
    Francis McM
    Registered Users Posts: 2,712 ✭✭✭Francis McM


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121853473#Comment_121853473

    True enough, even on RTE many GAA stadiums seem relatively empty as it is, unless it is a big match.

    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121853482#Comment_121853482

    Soccer in England is different to this island. According to google, the UK is home to the richest and most-watched soccer football league in the world. It brings in billions in exports / foreign earnings for them.



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