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Casement Park watch.

245

Comments

  • Posts: 1,264 ✭✭✭ Miley Some Tomahawk


    I honestly think the GAA's heart isn't in this and they are just waiting for the plug to be pulled. Once Jarleth Burns said last week that it was "unfair" for the organisation to be expected to stump up more than the £15 million they initially promised, that was a pretty big red flag for me.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,260 ✭✭✭PeggyShippen


    Yes I live in Great Britain . Thats also the UK so saying I live in the UK is correct also. Like people in Scotland ,England and Northern Ireland can say they live in the UK.

    My friends and I would like Scotland to remain in the UK. I think that's fairly secure at the moment after the SNP implosion and the controversy that resulted in Sturgeon resigning. Northern Ireland is fairly secure in the Union aswell by the looks of it but things up there are really improving politically. I'd like to see Casement being built but like a poster pointed out, it's in a very Republican area and it's not really a GAA city to top it all off. Might be better for everyone if a smaller stadium does get built and the GAA do up Clones .



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,540 ✭✭✭✭Fr Tod Umptious


    Tje big problem is the make-up of the Euro bid.

    Had the UK not invited the ROI to join then there would have been no need to invite NI to join.

    They could not politically have had a bid that excluded one part of the UK while including another country.

    Had the bid been kept to England, Wales and Scotland then Casement would get built to a decent sized GAA standard for Ulster finals, neutral venue games etc.

    Instead it's a white elephant that's going to have to be built to UEFA standards or not at all.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,260 ✭✭✭PeggyShippen


    Well equally you couldn't have Scotland ,England and Wales and leave one of the UK nations ie.Northern Ireland out.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,286 ✭✭✭✭event


    Why do people say the Tory govt wont pay for the stadium? Sure whats it go to do with them? By all accounts and predictions they wont be in the next government so will be up to Labour to decide



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,068 ✭✭✭threeball


    Take the €15million, try to get another €5 of the government, maybe €5 of the assembly and build a nice 7.5k capacity stadium to a really good standard with a Croke Park level pitch then move on. All this boll0x talk of euros and 34k stadiums for a geographical area with limited use for neutral games and 2 low attendance teams is absolute guff of the highest order. Just highlights everything wrong with this country.



  • Posts: 1,264 ✭✭✭ Miley Some Tomahawk


    Piece in the Irish Times this morning saying that the UK government "will not discuss" funding until it knows the final cost. NIO spokesperson saying there are "wider public sector funding challenges".




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,020 ✭✭✭boetstark


    I really wonder what type of an individual you are when you are away from your keyboard.

    You have a nasty habit of accusing people of talking bulls#it or telling lies, which you have been called out on at least once.

    You need to reign in that attitude a bit as you most definitely are not as much of an expert as you think you are.

    Typical keyboard warrior



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,540 ✭✭✭✭Fr Tod Umptious


    You absolutely could.

    The obvious reason being that there isn't a stadium suitable enough in NI.

    But once the republic were invited it became political.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,603 ✭✭✭keeponhurling


    Probably England alone couldn't have won this bid seeing as they hosted the semifinals and final of Euro 2020 (played in 2021 due to COVID).

    So they included new venues such as Ireland, Wales and N.Ireland giving it the impression of being different to 2020, spreading the game etc..

    Now that they have been awarded the event, they don't need Casement Park, hence they aren't too bothered about funding it. If it's not ready by 2028 then so be it, plenty more stadiums around the UK.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 74,286 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Yeh, you easily could. These were the venues chosen for soccer at the Olympic Games 2012

    Hampden Park, Glasgow

    Millennium Stadium, Cardiff

    Old Trafford, Manchester

    City of Coventry Stadium, Coventry

    St James' Park, Newcastle

    Wembley Stadium, London



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 74,286 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    If you look at it though, the 'squabbling' emanates from one quarter. Everyone was in favour of the Maze but..........

    Everyone but that quarter is for Casement and the obvious benefits for all.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 74,286 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


     Everyone was on board until SF talked the UK gov into creating a museum on site.

    This isn't what happened.

    A 'Centre For Conflict Transformation' was proposed for the site from the get-go when Edwin Poots was in favour of the project. His party where divided on it though.

    Martin McGuinness and Peter Robinson actually agreed on plans for that 'centre' and it was the objections of the Orange Order that turned the tide and it was Sports Minister Gregory Campbell who ruled out the project in favour of separate stadiums for Rugby, Soccer and Gaelic games.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 245 ✭✭oisinog


    I think you are misunderstanding how much of a GAA city Belfast is, there are clubs in all sections of the City including loyalist East Belfast. There are 28 GAA clubs at senior level in Belfast alone (possibly more). The nationwide Lads and Dads hurling program was started in Belfast. So you cant say that Belfast is not a GAA city. The GAA has probably the highest playing numbers of any Sport in Belfast.

    No one is discussing the economic impact this stadium could have in Belfast, We don't have a venue big enough to attract big concerts, finals of major European football tournaments. Casement park will allow that really the cost is going to come back into the economy, local workers getting paid. Local companies providing the building materials.

    There are thousands of children who have never had the opportunity to set foot inside Casement never mind play on the ground for their schools or clubs.

    If this was Windsor Park there would be no complaints from the Unionist parties or the people who vote for them. There is one reason for the outrage and that is pure sectarianism.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,260 ✭✭✭PeggyShippen


    Ah come on now. The costs are through the roof. There's plenty of criticism of the project on here from people besides me and I'd be fairly certain they arent sectarian.

    28 senior clubs. I have to tell you that I didn't know that and Iv lived on the Ravenhill road for a few years. That's healthy but I'd be fairly certain association football would be the biggest sport in Belfast.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,779 ✭✭✭celt262


    The kids may still not get to play in it . It isn't Antrim ground anymore and its hard to know what the Ulster Council will allow be played in it at this stage.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 245 ✭✭oisinog


    I hear the conversations that are going on about Casement. You only have to listen to the radio in the mornings or afternoons to hear what people are talking about. If Windsor was being redeveloped there would be no issue over the costs. People from the PLU communities are complaining because its £200+ m going to West Belfast not taking into consideration that people coming to the matches will be using public transport, drinking in local bars eating in local areas.

    Gaelic Football has a higher participation rate that Soccer particularly among Women. When you add in Hurling and Camogie as well as handball into that the numbers are massive.

    Regardless of what people think the Club my girls are a member of have people from all sides of the community.

    East Belfast have over 500 members, the first LGBT team is set up in Belfast that's 2 new clubs in the last 5 years which is evidence that the sports are growing which is positive for the city



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 245 ✭✭oisinog


    My understanding is that it will still be Antrim's home ground, there will still be chances for local schools to play at half time in big games which will still be massive for local clubs/schools



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,779 ✭✭✭celt262


    There are no agreements in place between Antrim GAA and the Ulster Council it's likely their league games will remain in Corrigan Park. It's important that they do get plenty of use of it if it is built, they should be playing lots of Club Championship games in it and schools and club finals but we don't know what road the Ulster Council will go down with it yet.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 245 ✭✭oisinog


    Thats a pity I was reading to much into Antrim's press releases



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,068 ✭✭✭threeball


    It's not the GAAs responsibility to provide a stadium for soccer finals, concerts or any other rubbish that people want to trot out in order to justify a white elephant. Upkeep on a massively oversized, massively overspec'd stadium will be a millstone round the neck of the association for decades. When was the last time there was 10k at an Antrim game never mind 34k. Its fantasy land stuff. You need 7.5k tops and a nice place for supporters to attend a game which can generate an atmosphere. It wouldn't even be economical to open the stadium for the vast majority of antrims games.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,257 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005


    I was at the last ever game played in the old stadium in 2013. I saw the attendance listed elsewhere as 7,712.

    https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/casement-park-deserved-a-better-way-to-say-goodbye-1.1422469



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,680 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    I am interested, what the rules will be around the GAA and this pitch if the government were to give £200m+. Surely there should be a requirement that the GAA be open to everyone and that the stadium has no symbols that some in the community would find offensive



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,615 ✭✭✭Charles Babbage




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 74,286 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    No Irish on the manhole covers or on any signage?

    That kinda of 'offensive'?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,286 ✭✭✭✭event


    The govt gave money to develop Windsor Park. Do you think it should be opened up to GAA?



  • Administrators Posts: 55,188 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    If this was Windsor Park there would be no complaints from the Unionist parties or the people who vote for them. There is one reason for the outrage and that is pure sectarianism.

    I think this is a fairly reductive way of looking at the situation to be honest, but it's unfortunately all too common when it comes to discussing controversial issues in the north. Both sides are experts at playing games with the messaging here. People against the project can display faux-outrage at the costs, and people for the project can claim that anyone against it is just a bigot.

    Look, there are without question a ton of people who hate the GAA hiding behind things like the cost to avoid having to say they just don't want the GAA getting anything. Only a fool would argue otherwise.

    But genuinely, is there not real questions to be asked here? Hundreds of millions for a stadium when the north is in the state that it is? Honestly, people will say that the arguing over this stadium is indicative of the basket case status of northern politics, but I think there's an argument to be made that the fact this idea hasn't been laughed out of the room is an even bigger indicator of the absurdity of how the north works at this point.

    Does anyone really think that if the 26 counties were under the same financial pressures as the north that there'd be nobody questioning a decision down here to give hundreds of millions to the GAA for a stadium that it's really doing quite fine without right now? I'd be disappointed if there weren't huge questions.

    I honestly don't buy the notion there'd be no questions if it were Windsor Park. Yea some of the people complaining today would be quiet, but not all of them, and I am absolutely certain that people on the other side of the political divide would be asking the same questions.

    The GAA need to get their slice of the pie of money that was promised years ago, no question on that, but the more this saga trundles on the more I am thinking this Euro story is pie in the sky and these plans need a dose of reality.

    The GAA sticking their fingers in their ears and insisting they won't pay up just isn't going to work IMO. Neither the Irish nor the British government will absorb these sort of costs, they'd get slammed for it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 74,286 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    The money is not being taken from funds that would find their way to NI for health etc though. It isn't how it works.

    We have heard the 'it would be better spent...' argument many times. It is another convenient way to hide real motivations.

    Personally I think the GAA are bargaining with the 15m stance. It's not their fault the project got delayed so long



  • Administrators Posts: 55,188 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    Does it really matter if the money is intended for NI or not though? Whether or not that money would be spent on something else in NI, or something else in Scotland, or something else in England, I don't think it really matters?

    As to being their fault, it's not entirely their fault but they are not blameless. They went in initially with grand plans and tried to railroad residents, and it cost them a lot of time.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,680 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    The GAA have used Windsor, and I am not aware of any symbols etc at Windsor that would cause a chill factor. Windsor is also situated in a very diverse area. I also don’t think there are any naming issues at any football grounds in the north.



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