After leaving cert holiday mess

Inkers92

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121733117#Comment_121733117

Probably... I will ask them

Grey123

I suspect it's the booker who is liable, not your son. Obviously your son doesn't want to leave it all to him. Could cancel the card just to be sure / have control over what and when it's being paid.

Any other people on the trip have no relation with the company, may as well be kids on a family holiday.

What did the booker or your son communicate to the others, did they say it was just €60 they would lose or did they all know they were entering a payment play.

If they were told it was just €60 to hold a place and are now being chased for a few hundred I can understand their point of view to a degree. They might not have even seen any contract.

Important (and costly) life lessons here and unfortunately young to have to make them. Can understand you supporting given exams.

Dealt with this stuff with house shares and organizing stags but you learn to protect yourself financially and be clear in what is communicated.

lbunnae

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121733117#Comment_121733117

Yeah that’s true of course. Would be like a family trying to say they aren’t liable cause they booked a family hollier.

Inkers92

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121733215#Comment_121733215

Yes I would think booker is the responsible on paper and I don't think anyone went through the ts and Cs although they are all available and my son said this was told by company in fairness to them.. the booker did ask for 100 per cent commitment on a group chat but you know yourself... so nobody took the time to do the checking you would normally do as an adult would.

Not inclined to leave one kid hang out to dry on it... I think at worst if they have to cough up which seems likely the problem should be socialised across the group and everyone pays what they committed to... seems fair right? But we all know it won't be that easy either.

Oscar_Madison

So this is essentially commit upfront to pay for the holiday in full but we’ll help you with easy instalments? ie is a contract now in place, underwritten with a credit card?

You mentioned I think a revolute card somewhere? Would need to see how easy or difficult it is to back out of this deal in terms of the practicalities of cancelling the payment method - you’re either locked in for the full amount or you’re simply booked but with the option of cancelling and losing some or all deposits.

Sorry if mentioned already You really need to see the T&Cs email sent when booking first - that will give you the state of play.

ted1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121732703#Comment_121732703

No refundable doesn’t mean they have to pay anything extra. It’s the deposits they won’t get back.

On a point of age, I did my LC way back in 1978, just turned 17, and commenced work whilst still 17. I was booking my own trips etc at that stage. There’s no issue about a 17 year being responsible for own purchases, booking own travel, and managing my own finances.

However, handling money/payments for others can be an absolute nightmare even as an experienced adult, let alone a young person launching in life! I feel very sorry for the lad. I would be very business-like with the other lads/parents. Maybe help him draft up a polite, reasonable, but formal letter to the lads who won’t pay and to their parents. Would help him develop a business-like approach to life, whether or not it works in getting the money back.

Regarding companies like LoveHolidays, their business model is “loaning” you money to pay for flight/accommodation packages, where if you approached airline directly you’d have to pay the lot up front. As a poster above says, they work on tight margins.

TBH when booking packages for pals like that it is better to price up own flights first, get friends to give you the approximate amount of money needed for the booking (the fares change somewhat as per airline algorithms) before proceeding with the bookings. At least the friends have then committed a lot to the trip. If the friends don’t pay up front, they’re not in, or they can later go make their own flight arrangements. After that arrange the accommodation with booking.com or wherever with possibility of relatively last minute cancellation.

You live and learn!

Grey123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121733280#Comment_121733280

Ya I guess it depends what excuses the others are coming back with? Is it they don't have the money? Didn't believe they had fully committed? Or are they just blindly saying they won't pay and maybe don't care about the friendship.

Are you suggesting that the remaining 7 cover the costs of the other 4? Or is it 8 covering 3 if would will pay. The group dynamics probably matter here.

claregal1

Love holidays are great to deal with tbf. I use them all the time. If you get the login details from the lead booker you can amend the booking although the 70 deposit they all paid is non refundable .

I once had to cancel a booking to Rome. Lost the price of the flights but got the full hotel amount back.

Grey123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121733390#Comment_121733390

I think that is the lesson for anyone from this. Someone isn't 100% in until they have paid.

Love Holidays model has worked against the OPs son here unfortunately. I've taken hotel payments from groups in advance even though payment isn't due till check out.

Far easier to figure out what you can give back than if someone cancels than trying to collect.

Inkers92

Here's what I'm thinking:

Call loveholidays first explain the situation and see if they can do anything. If yes happy days. If no:

Option 1: 7 lads still go, four cancel get breakdown of costs

Option 2: everyone cancels get breakdown of costs

Option 3: find four lads to take place of others and understand price difference/breakdown for that

Option 4: Leave the booking as is and four cancelled do a no show and see if that is cheaper actually than cancelling

Ask for a stay on payment until some resolution is found, Option is agreed

Then bring this to the other lads/parents and get their input. See what happens.

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121733575#Comment_121733575

To be honest, I would have suggested 'Call loveholidays first explain the situation and see if they can do anything.' as the very first thing, even before putting up a post here.

Many businesses rely on personal recommendations and willing to try and sort such matters out as they don't want to be bad mouthed.

Inkers92

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121733650#Comment_121733650

Fair point, although you will see I have never once criticised them.

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121733664#Comment_121733664

Hmm... https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121732662/#Comment_121732662

You kinda suggested you aren't expecting much joy from them..........

Anyways, phone up and explain - surely it's not that uncommon.

Oscar_Madison

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121733650#Comment_121733650

They’ll likely only speak to the person making the original booking so they’ll need to be present also - but yeah if there’s talking to be done I reckon the OP is the person most capable of sorting this out in a cost effective manner.

Id be looking to cancel everything- all deposits gone obviously but that’s the cheaper option as I’d say more people will start backing out- what probably sounded like a good idea at the time obviously isn’t a runner now - I don’t think people will be done out of 100s but that’s reliant on all paying the booking deposit at least

As for notifying parents, you could end up looking stupid if you word the message wrong - I’m assuming this is about honour and word to friends, not about some parent underwriting the cost of the booking and then getting stuck with it?

If they’re real friends, they should just pay up what’s owed to date- however if they weren’t informed on T&Cs, it’s gonna be a tougher ask - if they were all asked for a non refundable deposit of X and some didn’t pay, then they should be chased for that money-

Oscar_Madison

OP look at the t&cs on the website - it might give you some idea of the road ahead - I think the important thing at this point is to somehow remove the payment method - it looks like potentially they’ll try automatically to take payment (which would be normal and fine) so there’s an urgency now to all of this

Read down the page there’s a load of different scenarios and good luck figuring out which one relates to your booking - but it looks like the original booker is in for a tough time in terms of cancellation charges with up to 100% of flights charged out - you really need to back out of this as best you can- I see name changes cost 25 euro - I’ll bet you some of the names are not as their passports-

Also- I reckon you’ll need a card in place before you attempt cancellation as the system will likely not proceed without it -

All requests to cancel must be submitted via 'Manage My Booking' where you will be made aware of any cancellation charges and you must agree to these charges in order to proceed with the cancellation.

https://www.loveholidays.ie/about-us/terms-and-conditions.html

Payment by instalments: If you have chosen the option to spread the cost of your booking(s), all instalments must be paid by the date specified at the time of making the booking. Unless otherwise specified, we will automatically (if possible) take payment from the same debit/credit card used to pay your deposit. If full payment is not received (for whatever reason) by the Balance Due Date, we will notify the Service Provider who may cancel your booking and charge the cancellation fees set out in their booking conditions. In the event of non-payment, the booking(s) may be cancelled – please refer to the cancellation policy. It is always your responsibility to ensure your balance is paid by the Balance Due Date.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121733545#Comment_121733545

I’ve just booked arrangements between myself and a friend for a two centre long haul exotic destination, worked out that I paid the air fares up front, and she immediately reimbursed me. A person with very trustworthy credentials, but “friends” of any age have the potential to let you down very badly . So I made sure to ask her did she have money in her account or very shortly to be in her account before going ahead. Keeping it both business-like and friendly.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121733697#Comment_121733697

Very few people are real friends, a fact of life unfortunately. That’s why you have to be somewhat “mercenary”, honourable people will keenly honour a debt asap. That lad who wants instead to keep the money for the ticket to the concert, well fook him I say. He owes your lad the money, he should sacrifice the concert. Honour is important.

Oscar_Madison

From reading the T&Cs on the website, it’s clear this will be problematic - the original booker is possibly in hoc for 1000s - depending on how the company collects debts owed - speaking to the company directly may help but in terms of the flights it looks like they’re as good as paid for - I think a meeting with the whole group or what’s left of the group along with parents is called for - the parents of the guy who made the booking would be your first port of call as essentially the booking is in his name and he has most to lose (assuming your sons revolute card can’t be used right now)

Who the f*ck picks Longitude over a holiday abroad with the lads?

The lineup looks (Doja) cat to boot.

Oscar_Madison

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121733914#Comment_121733914

Couldn’t agree more - but at this stage I think it needs parental intervention - if others start to see trouble ahead they’ll simply back out- all they lost is 60 squid - that leaves the original booker with a hell of a debt - at aged 18 !!!

However even with parental intervention it needs delicacy- they need to realise the background to all of this, the naivety of it all and no blame - they may not even realise that their darling son has signed up to this holiday and that they’re about to fund it 😀

Inkers92

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121733685#Comment_121733685

Well, I am just off the phone and had to speak in hypotheticals as I am not connected which is standard and expected but was able to chat a little.

They won't budge on the terms and conditions so that is the situation... but I asked my son to get lead booker to check different options in a ticket.

For option 1 I described even if lads that cancelled pay for their flights the rooms would be cancelled and rebooked for some reason and price goes up by about 200 each for the seven that still want to go

Option 2 Everyone cancels flights and cancellation fees less deposit paid.... 405 a head (465 including deposit loss)

Option 3 New people join in - unlikely anyone will want to get involved in this s**tshow... not clear / vague on charges to change flight names and possible charges to change names at hotel side

Option 4 Leave existing booking in place. Ones that are cancelling pay the 405 cancellation and just no show - minimal increase for lads still going.

So that's it.

Inkers92

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121733798#Comment_121733798

They told me head booker can push next payment date by two weeks in the manage booking so told him to do that to buy time until resolution found

Inkers92

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121733989#Comment_121733989

Yes, this will be the next step. As I said it been going on a couple of weeks now and seemed to be getting heated and stuff so that's why I am stepping in and trying to help resolve it. Don't think that's going to happen without parents at this stage so...

Not forgetting one lad straight away said yeah no issue lads I'll pay what is owed fair play to him. Others seem they will need encouragement.. if that's from parents so be it.

waterwelly

Surely tell the agent to go after each guy individually.

It's their name on the Aer Lingus ticket.

This must happen regularly to love holidays, people paying a small deposit then backing out.

It's hard to see them going after everybody in the courts.

Oscar_Madison

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121734118#Comment_121734118

Good luck with the parents - some will be totally fine with it, just like their sons- others might be eh, just like their sons😀

I don’t envy you OP - best of luck with it and do let us know how it goes. If you can set the scene of excitement of the holiday and road ahead then there might be a chance of success but have all the maths done and of course, they need to hand over all monies now.

Oscar_Madison

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121734176#Comment_121734176

I think you’d need to be a legal consumer expert as to who they can and can’t go after - however, here’s the thing- if ALL fees aren’t paid up in the agreed time periods throughout the staged payments , the WHOLE holiday can get cancelled- so it’s probably better and simpler looking at this as a non refundable holiday booked day 1- now it’s just about paying for that holiday - it will need the cooperation of the rest of the lads to get this paid for

Grey123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121734176#Comment_121734176

Would be like me booking for my family and telling them to chase my wife and kid for their share.

Jim2007

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121733664#Comment_121733664

You did not actually need to name them… and given the details you posted they will probably be able to guess… maybe ask for the thread to be deleted.

Jim2007

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121734176#Comment_121734176

IIf it happens regularly, don’t you think they might have included protection in their terms and conditions???