2024 Irish EV Sales

prawnsambo

I think the fall in new BEVs being sold is overblown. Yes it's lower than last year, but as I said before, last year was a bumper year with the national fleet more than doubled. That's more in 2023 than all the years from 2010 to 2022 combined.

In the first four months of 2024, more than 9000 were sold. If that holds up for the rest of the year, then it's an increase of 50% or more on the national fleet.

So in 2023 it was 100% increase and in 2024, 50%. It absolutely should be better than that, but if the worst is going to be 'only' a 50% increase on the total fleet every year, it shouldn't be sniffed at. Certainly no need for panic, especially with tthe advances in battery technologies, cheaper batteries and cheaper and longer range cars.

Ir3

I think a lot car companies policy of making their EV offering look so different to their ICE cars could also be having a negative effect on people switching too.. I think a huge amount of them are just bad designs, only my opinion of course but not everyone wants a car that is so divisive or wants to shout from the rooftops that their car is Electric.

Ev fan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122094999#Comment_122094999

From what I can see the most common battery guarantee is for 8 years and/or 160k km with 70% SOH. I think most people are fine with that and understand that whatever happens they won't be paying for expensive battery fixes/replacements. My point was everything else - (major mechanical and electrical drive system components) GIVEN that EVs have so much fewer parts to go wrong beyond normal wear and tear disposable items. If the manufacturer gives a longer 5 (rather than 3 currently) year guarantee for all the major drive train/electrical components then customers could have increased confidence in buying new/ 2nd hand EVs and buy them in greater numbers.

prawnsambo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122096258#Comment_122096258

Extended warranties are available for most EVs except VW.

prawnsambo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122096228#Comment_122096228

+1 on the design front. Though a lot of it is down to the battle to drag the last kilometre of range out of the designs resulting in a very samey look to a lot of what's out there.

Ev fan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122096332#Comment_122096332

Why not 5 Yr warranties from new? Like Kia and Hyundai. The reason Chinese cars are selling in Europe is long duration guarantees to make more potential customers comfortable along with price.

MojoMaker

Aren't most 8 year guarantees from new?

Ev fan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122096693#Comment_122096693

I'm referring to 5 Yr warranty from new for an EV for all parts excepting the battery. The battery has the current standalone 8 Yr warranty which I believe nobody has a problem with.

creedp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122096729#Comment_122096729

Given that people know that EVs have less parts and consequently have less to go wrong, why is there such a need for a longer general warranty to entice people away from ICE? Anyone I've spoken to about EVs are concerned only about battery longevity and IMO the extent of battery warranty should be highlighted far more than it is currently

MojoMaker

Exactly. It's a red herring by the sounds of it.

secman

An affordable EV is what the BYD Seagull is. Without cheaper EVs, the West is doomed, and the current regulation in Europe is an opportunity for China more than for anyone else,” said JATO Dynamics Global Analyst Felipe Munoz.

The current crop of EVs on the European market is not only too expensive but because of current technology limitations, long-range high-speed range is poor compared with ICE vehicles. These vehicles are really overpriced town cars. The likes of the Bingo and Seagull make the most of electric technology with their unpretentious utility for short-range use like the daily commute, shopping and school run, with no long-range claims. European manufacturers have been loathe to fill this space because of its lack of profitability but the likes of VW and Renault are currently seeking to pool resources to match these Chinese vehicles.

Ev fan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122096766#Comment_122096766

I disagree. EV owners tend to be quite knowledgeable on EVS through their own use case and gained experience. Equally ICE owners know a fair amount on engines etc. but can be ignorant about the EV drive train, motor, inverter, and other parts. It is logical then that they would be hesitant to switch and hence default to staying with what they know. That is certainly something I've seen with some of my own friends and neighbours. Plenty can go wrong apart from the battery on an EV as is obvious when you read all the EV forums. Providing a longer guarantee could help more potential customers ease themselves into EV ownership. By the way I don't see this as a panacea to fix EV sales (eg higher prices is a big deterrent) but it might help to nudge new sales in the right direction. Also it might help to move the 2nd hand market.

McGiver

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122096777#Comment_122096777

That's why I disputed it. Doesn't make much sense.

The EV uptake is poor only because of the following:

• Poor government policy
• High interest rates and strange macroeconomic climate
• Purchasing power / affordability
• Disinformation
• Change resistance

That's all. Mechanical warranty, really? No.

Ev fan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122097102#Comment_122097102

Well I'm glad for you that your 5 bullet points cover everything with certitude and NOTHING else is of any relevance to this discussion.

Ev fan

To be clear I was postulating that if manufacturers offered longer full warranties- which covers the full gamut of EVs eg sensors ecus contactors inverter switches motors miscellaneous electrical components wiring etc. software display componentry etc along with mechanical parts and fittings then this might be positive in helping to move EVs. This is not something new - as I've already stated Kia Hyundai and some Chinese manufacturers already do this. This is just a suggestion and Iet's agree to disagree if you can't find any merit in it.

Casati

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122097102#Comment_122097102

It's amazing that folk that talk with such certainty can get it so wrong!

Poor government policy- really?? 5000 vrt grant, 7% vrt, 3500 semi grant, low BIK, low tax, available charger grants etc, infrastructure funding etc - while at the same time murdering petrol and diesel car buyers with higher and higher vrt and fake carbon charges making fueling them almost prohibitively expensive. Unless they give everybody a free Bev Im not sure what else they can do.

High Interest rates- sorry but EV's generally attract low interest rates if financing via manufactures, and indeed green loans for ev purchase carry lower interest rates with certain banks/ credit unions versus petrol and diesel.

Purchasing power / affordability* - The best selling cars are 40/50k+ cross overs and family cars, and generally dearer now than BEV's. I myself spent over 50k on a small no brand family sized diesel - more than I could have bought a similar size/ and indeed higher power ID4, Model Y, Enyaq etc. .

*Now of course depreciation is another factor and if you take that into account then yeah I agree Bev's become less affordable - I know myself I can afford to trade my car up every two years if I want, but I would seriously struggle to do that buying a BEV.

Disinformation - okay we always have disinformation in the car business as almost everybody who ever set foot in a car dealer will testify, but it goes both ways and we see loads of stupid article and owners comments about Bev's that paint everything as perfect. Anybody buying a new car can and generally do research the wide number of balanced reports from a range of independent sources.

Change resistance - Anybody buying a new car of any sort is showing they are open to change, otherwise they would be keeping onto their old car! Irish buyers have shown they are very open to changing fuel type- pre 2008 diesels were a small segment, within two years buyer changed tack and 60%+ bought diesels. Now we see a massive change from diesel to hybrids.

Anyway the real reasons have been talked about at length - if car the car industry really wants to sell BEV's, most of the issues are things they can fix with some effort, but it seems they dont really have the desire to do so just yet

McGiver

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122097951#Comment_122097951

Government policy is poor, sorry it's been completely incompatible with both the 2025 and the 2030 gov EV goals for years and in international comparison. VRT and motor taxes are low on fossils compared to places like Norway or the Netherlands. The difference between BEV and ICE is very small.

The rest - let's agree to disagree.

ted1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122097102#Comment_122097102

a tucson isn’t much cheapen than a ID4, KONA, Ioniq, EV6, Model Y

that poopoo your 2nd and 3rd points

Casati

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122105337#Comment_122105337

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122105337#Comment_122105337

VRT rate on the best selling Tucson is 20% or close to €10,000 for a reasonably spec’d model. On a 50k BEV it’s €3,500 which is in turn fully offset by the grant - so that’s a €10,000. Add to that the SEAI grant of €3500 and that’s €13,500 of government support for an average 50k BEV.

innrain

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122105883#Comment_122105883

Sorry but that is absolute BS. The 7% VRT is not BEV exclusive. There is no VRT rebate for 50k BEVs.

Maybe you should redirect towards some that evade the 20% VRT with other clever techniques.

https://www.carzone.ie/new-cars/land-rover/Range-Rover-Sport/30-P550E-PHEV-AUTOBIOGRAPHY/832496220230601

The PHEV version is rated 18g/100km while the regular ICE is 225g/100km. That means a reduction in VRT of 30% or in absolute figures about 50k.

McGiver

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122105883#Comment_122105883

Serious juggling with the numbers.

Less polluting cars should have lower VRT. I think everyone agrees with that.

Saying that, VRT is a local invention and shouldn't exist at all.

Casati

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122109739#Comment_122109739

Sorry Ive made an error- VRT rebate is only partial up to 50k, it's full up to 40k - however the point is still valid that the total state contribution between lower vrt, seai grant and vrt rebate are massive. That before we mention charger grants- both a domestic and commercial level and other benefits like low motor tax.

Gerrymandering reborn

A 3ltr diesel has 35% VRT

An EV is only 7%

How is that poor government policy?

Also €120 road tax compared to €600, €1250 and in some cases €2400

I recognize that the Government can do more when when the price of a Porsche 911 is double in Ireland than the UK due to government policy, blaming the government for the very poor uptake of EV's lacks any substance

Shouldn't EV's be selling themselves with the amount of numerous benefits they offer? I think that's the real question

innrain

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122110713#Comment_122110713

If you read my previous post you'll see that the mentioned 3l engine and whooping 3.5 tonne pays the same 7% VRT and probably 140/year motor tax. So 7% VRT is not exclusive to EVs.

sh81722

The new PHEVs start to look like 2011 Nissan LEAF for their electric range. I don't know if that tragic of useful but they do allow people to buy complicated cars with minimum VRT spend so it all good. And will allow the petrol stations to stay open and the oil producing nations happy.

maidhc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122111413#Comment_122111413

or just provide an ideal solution for most people to drive in a carbon free and economical manner until the world catches up!

creedp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122114455#Comment_122114455

I think opinions are less negative around more luxury phev options like BMW 330e/530e than for the run of the mill models. Bottom line if you like a phev buy one, it's better than a diesel if it suits you even if it can be more expensive to run for longer journeys

Cyrus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122114455#Comment_122114455

if people in phevs are always driving in a carbon free and economical manner they should be in a BEV.

innrain

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122111413#Comment_122111413

But this is beside the point. My point was that there is a rhetoric out there "BEVs receive a lot of grants". See above calculations of 13.5k. The point is the 7% VRT is not BEV exclusive as previous posters keep repeating. A 3l tractor gets the same 7%. Same for motor tax. If that's right or not it is a whole different discussion.

Then there is the issue of VRT rebate which the gov advertise it up to 5k and people take 5k as the relief BEVs get.

Vehicles with an Open Market Selling Price (OMSP) of up to €40,000 will be granted relief of up to €5,000.

https://www.revenue.ie/en/vrt/calculating-vrt/electric-hybrid-vehicles.aspx

In addition, there is no change to the existing generous VRT relief
which is available to a maximum of €5,000 to purchasers of electric
vehicles up to the selling price of €40,000, with a reduced scale for
vehicles up to the selling price of €50,000.

https://www.gov.ie/en/press-release/e0766-changes-to-grants-for-privately-purchased-electric-vehicles/

There is no 5k VRT rebate as 7% out of 40k is 2.8k. That is the max rebate. It goes down to zero after that.

maidhc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122114838#Comment_122114838

yes, and people in bevs should be in public transport, and people in public transport should really walk and only eat vegan and wear biodegradable clothing.

In the real world today though the PHEV is the perfect solution.