Stardust - why is it taking so long?

Leg End Reject

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122035540#Comment_122035540

Tell us it was unlawful without telling us it was unlawful.

iamwhoiam

i have huge admiration for the families who kept going and 40 years later got a glimmer of satisfaction . Fair play to each and every one of them who fought for their loved ones

Leilak

I wonder how much the government apology will cost ? I reckon possibly 30m

Conor Bourke

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121774128#Comment_121774128

what would you expect from a pig but a grunt :rolleyes:

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122035540#Comment_122035540

Let's remind ourselves of something…

https://twitter.com/JoeBrolly1993/status/1679841288982523904

Gregor Samsa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122035540#Comment_122035540

I’m surprised to hear that there were reporting restrictions on that. It must have been reported in the media before, because I mentioned it earlier in the thread on January 26th. I just can’t remember where I read it now.

Edit: ah, he brought two separate judicial reviews to try to get Unlawful Killing removed. One in 2022 (which is what I was referring to) and another during the inquest, which has only come to light now. He really didn’t want the truth coming out, did he?

Cluedo Monopoly

The relatives deserve a full public apology from the government for the delays in getting justice. 43 years waiting. I was only 10 but I do remember the public shock so well. There was always a north side bias on the attempts for justice.

whisky_galore

If the kids came from leafy suburbia, it would have wrapped up decades ago.

They hoped the poors wouldn't have the money and would just suck it up and go away.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122035795#Comment_122035795

Thoroughly agree. Another shameful long episode of no redress or justice.

Seth Brundle

The Taoiseach has issued a statement…

Goldengirl

I am sure I am not the only one who shed a tear over this today

I was the same age as those who died, and it always stuck with me , it was so close to home.

Many discos and events we would have frequented at the time would have had exits similarly barred or locked , so this was a disaster waiting to happen.

I remember talking to a fire officer in another jurisdiction about 10 years later and they all knew the exits were locked in the Stardust , and would have been having a lot of difficulty even after that getting owners of clubs and dance halls sanctioned for continuing to lock the doors.

As regards the verdict so much credit to the families and Charlie Bird RIP who kept on at it and kept it in the public eye until they got justice .

Shame so many are not here to see this today .

It is a black hole in the neighbourhood because many felt that Butterfly's literally got away with ……and they only erected a plaque on a back wall a few years ago because of continuing pressure from the Stardust committee .

They built a service station out the front to hide the very recognisable building but never a mention that this was where 48 young people lost their lives until that plaque was forced out of them .

Nothing further will come of this unless the government support it .Inquests cannot apportion blame .

As far as I know the DPP would have to decide whether to take it further .

Butterly will appeal most likely and with their money (580 K in 1983 certainly helped !) and a good legal team will keep it at bay for another decade or so .

But rest assured if this had happened in another more affluent part of the city all those families would have been properly treated and compensated decades ago .

Charlie Haughey , and others do not come out of this well .

Not only did they not support the families they supported Butterly in his claims for compensation .They also refused further enquiries when the dogs on the street knew that the exits were locked and that flammable materials were stored in the building , as well as poor electrics and zero fire training for those working there .

May all those young people who died rest in peace now and hopefully their loved ones can find some comfort in this judgement today .

PmMeUrDogs

My mother was meant to be there, but she was grounded after being caught sneaking out to it (she was 17). Her brother was meant to be there, and the family had a night awake, terrified, until he walked in the door after having changed his mind and gone elsewhere. They knew almost everyone that died. They were friends with so many of them.

Her brother didn't live to see this verdict, but it genuinely means so much to the friends of the victims, and the locals who were also impacted emotionally. Traumatised isn't a word I use lightly but so many were.

I really, really hope some actual justice of some kind, or reparations, are forthcoming

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122035364#Comment_122035364

Yes, it has long been talked about. But responsibility for it denied all the way to the present tribunal by those who might be held accountable. As in https://www.irishtimes.com/crime-law/courts/2023/09/21/former-manager-of-stardust-eamon-butterly-insisted-he-instructed-doormen-not-to-lock-emergency-exits/

The buck has to stop somewhere and in this case the above.

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122035540#Comment_122035540

He's been fighting against this day for a long time.

Kaisr Sose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122035800#Comment_122035800

Butterly had strong links to Fianna Fail, and Haughey. It was just buried or made the cause or culpabiility in the deaths go away. They said arson. As a result Butterly got over £500k compensation. Thats shocking when you see todays verdict.

Its a pity Charlie Bird (RIP) is not here to see this day. He would have been so happy. He was very invested in this story and did a lot for the families of the victims and their long campaign

Information was posted above on this too. I had not read the whole thread

hotmail.com

Butterly should be forced to pay the money back.

Not that that's ever going to happen. A firece lack of honourability in Irish culture. Just look at Dee Forbes still claiming to be sick.

Atlantic Dawn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122036548#Comment_122036548

Yes it was 'malicious damages' compensation he got from the government which I had never heard of before. Did he not have any insurance whatsoever for the venue 🤔.

Seems like there were problems underwriting it previously...

https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/stardust-nightclub-was-pretty-horrendous-fire-risk-inquest-hears-1555073.html

stargazer 68

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122035902#Comment_122035902

We had family meant to be there too. They had 2 young kids and had gone out for the night. I remember my grandad (I was 12) coming to our door for my dad to go with him to their house to check if they were there or not. Thankfully they had changed their minds and gone somewhere else.

Anyone who lived in the area was touched by this horrific night. Everyone knew someone who was connected to it whether they lost someone or survived

Kaisr Sose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122036572#Comment_122036572

I am not sure it was said elsewhere, but essentially, it was our Hillsborough.

It should never have happened. Butterly was being incredibly narcissistic in petitioning the High Court re the Unlawful Death verdict and apporting blame, something the tribunal cannot do. Self preservation already start and will only increase if it's escalated to criminal investigation.

gipi

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122036563#Comment_122036563

And as we now know, there was no "malicious damage" caused.

Kaisr Sose

I did not know it was from the council. I assumed insurance. I had forgot the evidence on the fire risk you linked. Hope they can claw it back now it's not.

JupiterKid

After over four decades fighting for the truth and the justice that was denied to them for so very long, the families of the Stardust victims have finally been vindicated. Butterly is a scumbag and a gangster of the highest order. The 1983 whitewash of an “enquiry” where the victims were blamed has now been expunged.

I dearly hope files are now sent to the DPP in terms of a criminal prosecution.

I also agree with the others here who opined that if this very avoidable tragedy had taken place in, say, Annabels in Dublin 4, at the time there would have been a very different verdict. Ireland was essentially a deeply corrupt, deeply inegalitarian banana republic in the early 1980s.

One good outcome of Stardust that was that fire safety standards were greatly improved. In hindsight, it was a tragedy waiting to happen.

Now, will the families of the victims May 1974 Dublin and Monaghan bombings, now almost 50 years ago, get to see a proper inquiry?

Jack Daw

It's a complete disgrace it took over 40 years to get this case settled and justice for the people who died.

My question is why did it take so long and why didn't the TD's for the area not raise hell every week in the Dáil until something proper was done.If I was one of the families I'd be very pissed off at the local TD, no way if this was continually being made an issue in the Dáil over and over again that it would have been ignored for so long.

Montage of Feck

Never knew that Butterly got a half million payment, utterly disgusting considering what must now be his own criminal negligence with regards to safety is responsible.

Baba Yaga

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122037046#Comment_122037046

ive always wondered the same…was that charlie haugheys area?

Gregor Samsa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122037046#Comment_122037046

Haughey (then Taoiseach and one of the TDs for the area) instigated a Tribunal within 2 weeks of the fire. Which looked great on paper.

Of course, that tribunal (erroneously) found that arson was the cause of the fire and exonerated the management, which allowed the Butterlys to claim their £580K from Dublin Corporation.

The families didn't accept the verdict, but it was very easy for TDs at the time to shrug their shoulders and say that they had done their bit in holding an investigation - even though the fact is that "their bit" actually added to the injustice of the disaster.

acceletor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122037758#Comment_122037758

yep

MrRigsby

Does this verdict mean Butterly can be criminally prosecuted? I wouldn’t imagine there is a statute of limitations on killing people . At the very least he should be sued for everything he owns . Unfortunately it probably won’t happen and the taxpayer will carry the can as usual. I could never understand how people went into the pub that was built on the site . I certainly wouldn’t set foot in it

Gregor Samsa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122038000#Comment_122038000

In itself it doesn't. The inquest jury's verdict of "Unlawful Death" doesn't apportion culpability to to any individual - it's simply a statement on how the victims died.

When Eamon Butterly instigated the proceedings to get Unlawful Killing removed as an option from the inquest, his claim was that because there was a very limited number of people that were responsible for the premises and event on the night in question, a potential verdict of Unlawful Killing would effectively be apportioning blame on them - which is outside the legal remit of an inquest. The High Court rejected his argument.

That said, it's been confirmed that the Gardaí and DPP will be reviewing the Coroner's report with the view to seeing if any new criminal charges should be brought. There's a lot of testimony and evidence within the report that could go towards a variety of criminal charges.

Edit: removed last paragraph as I misunderstood the statement.

Shoog

Since Butterly has shown himself incapable of contrition or remorse he needs to be prosecuted for manslaughter. I suspect he would not be due to the statue if limitations.