A suffocating friendship, what to do?

Oblivion1970

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121679141#Comment_121679141

Ah for god's sake who else would look after our beloved pets if mum and I were to die tonight! We have nobody else and true I can't stand this girl now but if I were to leave this world tonight my little pets would still be here! She does love animals and I know nobody else. So no, there is no different dynamic unfolding!

@Purple Mountain thanks your kind reply.xx

Hannibal_Smith

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121679245#Comment_121679245

I have a pet who I adore, would I leave him with someone I can't stand.. not in a million years not even for an hour never mind if i died.

If you say there's no different dynamic thats fine, but I'm going on what you post. You know your dynamic better than I could. If it's not a deep friendship just leave it there.

HazeDoll

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121679245#Comment_121679245

If you genuinely have absolutely nobody but an unstable and toxic character like this to turn to, that's terribly sad. You need to fix that. You mentioned your mother's age. You don't want to be completely isolated and alone once she's gone. Get out there, start to cultivate some sort of life for yourself.

Once you make some progress at acquiring a circle of friends - or at the very least, acquaintances - it's quite likely that you will no longer feel the need to keep resuscitating this particular relationship in search of human interaction.

bucketybuck

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121679245#Comment_121679245

You could easily arrange to pay for first class care for your pets with the proceeds of any estate were you both to pass away at the same time. Giving your estate to one person so that she looks after your pets is easily the least efficient way of doing it possible.

Be honest with yourself, you are leaving some strings attached when you don't need to.

Tork

What a weird relationship! It sounds co-dependent and I doubt it would've come about if you and your mother weren't so isolated. Obviously, the most important thing for now is to properly rid this woman from your lives, change your locks and get her off that will. ASAP. It's also a shot across your bows that you've got to start getting out there and broadening your social circle. Maybe it's not an option for now but I hope it's in your future. There's no reason why you can't make new friends or meet somebody down the line.

From what you've told us about this woman, I wouldn't trust her to look after your pets properly if anything happened to you. You might be better off having a chat with a local animal shelter and getting advice about what to do if your pets suddenly need rehoming in the future. Would she even appreciate your over-generous gifts to her? You need to get better at establishing boundaries with her and shutting her down. Otherwise, you'll have future nasty encounters with her.

Big Bag of Chips

Your pets will be looked after. You and your mother are very unlikely to die tonight. And even if you did it would be a long long time before your estate would be sorted out. She wouldn't move into your house the day you die. Your animals would be taken in to a shelter until everything was sorted out.

I really think you need to get yourself to a solicitor first because you don't seem to understand the practicalities of wills and probate.

If you don't want to change your wills then don't. Leave everything to her. You'll be gone anyway so it won't matter anymore. But stop making random excuses why you can't change them. You can if you want.

Oblivion1970

I completely agree about needing to broaden my social circle and I agree about this relationship being weird and toxic. But people don't get into relationships expecting them to turn out so very badly. When they do you get blindsided. It's traumatic and very upsetting and takes time to get over it. I have no intention of engaging with this person. I haven't gone near her, I was out walking minding my own business.

Re the wills. I fully understand how wills and probate work. Being the next of kin of a very elderly person I have had to become familiar with such a process. Small changes to wills are not so complicated so we will change the bequests part and that way when my mother dies, she gets nothing. Currently it is stated in both wills that she look after the pets so they would not be rehomed. We will take our time about making a major change to the will, we are both too upset at the moment.

The girl is toxic and disturbed, yes. But she does love animals and is capable of looking after them, she has looked after mine several times and she volunteers with an animal charity. She is not a total psycho, she holds down a job and functions. I pity her that she clearly has a significant mental health issue that she can't seem to face up to it and is projecting it all on to me, which is why I need to cut ties with her and I'm doing just that. But I need to think carefully about the will when less upset.

Big Bag of Chips

Your will is not going to be read the day you die. So unless you have already asked her to come in and take your pets in the event of your death then nobody will know and they will be taken to a shelter.

If you want her to take your pets then you are going to have to discuss this with her. That includes leaving her with the keys of your house so that she has access. That probably also includes having to have some sort of civil relationship in the meantime. You can't blank her on the street or shout at her and then expect her to be onhand immediately once you die to step in and look after your pets.

Mr.Wemmick

The wills, the door locks are just a matter of process to change them - quite straightforward & easy once you talk to the right people.

What isn’t straightforward is how let down you feel and how much this situation has hurt you. Totally understandable for you to feel angry, upset, stressed and confused. This is all layered and wrapped up in a sense of loneliness and isolation for yourself and your Mum.

Please look after yourself first and foremost.. once you have a better handle on yourself and how you’re feeling, everything else will fall into place: supporting your Mum and your pets, the future.

Find a really good counsellor - get all this toxic mess out of your head with solid support while you find your feet to move forward - future friends, clubs, hobbies. This is no different from a nasty divorce, this person embedded herself in your life and it turned toxic. It’s big, little wonder you’re freaked out.

Your Mum will feel a lot better once she sees you’re okay. Bet you she’s more worried about you than she is about this ex-friend. Watching you being freaked out won’t help.. and you can’t hide it either as she knows you. Find a good counsellor ASAP and find a new walking route.

Take good care of yourself.

Oblivion1970

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121680263#Comment_121680263

Thank you so much for your kind and understanding reply. It's what I need right now because you are so right that such situations are not black and white and at the moment it all feels very emotional and overwhelming. Obviously I did not realise how messed up this girl is, obviously her issues are not black and white either, she is a human being with good qualities too, which is what saddens me and for many years the relationship worked well. When we updated the wills last June we felt very satisfied with our decision. It's only in the past few months that things have turned very nasty. Like a physical condition, if a mental condition is left untreated it gets worse and that's probably what is happening with this person. There are mental health issues in her family, it's most likely hereditary.

@Big Bag of Chips, she knows that I'm relying on her to take the pets if anything were to suddenly happen to my mother and I. Only last night I told her I'd leave her the key in case of a dire emergency at any point. I can review that further down the line when less upset but that will do for now. I don't need to have any more contact with her and contact with her is the last thing I need. I'm a mess today over her!

Big Bag of Chips

I just think it's very strange that you would be talking about cutting ties with her, yet at the same time letting her know that you are depending on her to step in in the case of an emergency.

You need to find a more suitable emergency contact.

HazeDoll

"Only last night I told her I'd leave her the key in case of a dire emergency at any point."

Why on earth would you do this, if not to let her know that you are open to further contact?

"Get out of my life, you're suffocating and dishonest and I hate the way you think you're a family member. But be prepared to drop everything and be on hand if there's an emergency, you're my only friend and I rely on you utterly."

YellowLead

This is all rather confusing OP. You call her toxic and want her out of your life, but yet you want her to inherit everything if both yourself and your mother should suddenly die, and you want her to have a key so you can rely on her in an emergency.

Have you ever gone to therapy yourself? It seems this woman might not be the only one who needs help figuring life out. If you want her out of your life then do it, don’t entangle further with wills and keys.

Hannibal_Smith

I don't think anyone is saying it's black and white, quite the opposite. This further information about wills and pets shows a much deeper much more entangled relationship than it would first appear. In fact it's only in recent months her behaviour has started to concern you enough to think of cutting ties.

However if you're cutting ties it seems bad form to give her a key to use in case of a dire emergency, ie if you were in dire urgent need of her help. This is someone who is creeping you out to the point you are cutting all ties with her. You're muddying the waters and confusing her and chances are you're leaving a slight hope open to her that there maybe some way back for her. When you cut someone out of your life, that's it. They owe you nothing anymore and vice versa.

Did she accept the key and conditions? How could you trust her with a key to your home? Equally given you are cutting her out of your life, does she want to look after your pets should you pass?

It's obvious from your posts that you're stressed out about this and upset so you're right you do need to give yourself a couple of days to have a think about what changes you want to make.

Big Bag of Chips

Is there nobody else in your life? A work colleague? A neighbour? An old friend/acquaintance. You don't need to leave everything in your will to them, but you can give them an "incase of emergencies" key.

I'm guessing by your username you are in your 50s. If your only, sole friend and contact in the world is someone you describe as "toxic and disturbed" then you absolutely need to look to yourself to see how and why you ended up in this position.

steinbock123

Change your will TOMORROW!!

Change your mother’s will as soon as practicable - she is 92, she could drop dead today.

Talk to someone in the dog & cats home (or gerbils or canaries or WHY) regarding caring for your pets after your demise.

Change the locks

Blank her completely. COMPLETELY! No messages, WhatsApp’s, texts, stopping on walks (just keep walking if you meet her, DON’T say one word, NO talking to her through the door if she knocks. If you’re strong enough to stick to these, she’ll eventually get the message and leave you alone.

There are many wonderful charities who would be delighted with any bequests you might make to them, you could indeed leave it all to a pet charity on condition they home your pets.

Mr.Wemmick

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121680388#Comment_121680388

It interesting to read the replies of posters here telling you to be blunt, cut the ties, be strong, walk away.. sound advice, but that’s easier said than done. No one here is in your shoes with your experiences of years of an embedded, dependent relationship. That’s why this comes across more like a divorce in many respects.

I too can understand why you would tell her about a key in an emergency. Is the idea not to let her know you’re cutting her off or that it’s completely over between you in case her reaction makes you even more stressed? Are you scared of her, do you think?

Are you trying to create space first so you can give yourself time away from her before you receive the backlash when you do tell her it’s over?

Please get your wills sorted Monday by contacting your solicitor. I would even get your mother this weekend to write down her wish to change her will immediately to exclude your friend, address it to her solicitor and register post it first thing Monday. Your mother’s wishes are then written, documented and signed by her; tell the solicitor you’ve done this. At the very least, this will show evidence of intent.

Oblivion1970

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121680731#Comment_121680731

Thanks once again. TBH a lot of the replies here are not helping though I appreciate people expressing their honest reactions. But like you say they're not in the situation and all this cut and dried stuff is easier said than done. I'm not in the right frame of mind for extreme actions, I need to firstly concentrate on myself and my own well being. Extreme actions like demanding my keys, changing the locks and rushing to the solicitor are not necessary to me at this point and right now would only freak me out more. It's not like she's going to break in!

She would be perfectly happy to take the pets in the highly unlikely event of something happening to both my mother and I at the same time. We discussed that one before. She adores my cat in particular. At the moment in a dire emergency and by that I mean really dire she would be the best one to call on and given how badly she has treated us both when we've always been so good to her she owes us that. However, as I said already I will review that one down the line when recovered from this upset. I don't feel in the least guilty about confusing her given the hurt she has caused and if she harbors hopes of a reconciliation that's her problem. I made it clear that the friendship is over but like in a divorce these things are often not clear at, at least not initially. I'm not afraid of her. She's not aggressive but she is very passive aggressive and very manipulative.

I don't know why everyone is reacting so strongly to the wills. While we want to make changes there will be no rushing to the solicitor right now in the middle of winter. If Mum suddenly dies and this girl gets a few grand, so be it. We don't care about the money to that extent and our feeling is that if we were both dead what difference would it make to us! Hopefully nature will take its course in that Mum will die, I'll inherit all, I'll then sit down and see what I have and decide then what to do with it. I'm not getting into a stress about it now.

I'm also not going to beat myself up about why I got myself into this position. Many people get badly let down in friendships and relationships. And many people have only a small core of support, some have none at all. I do have other friends, most don't live nearby unfortunately and I have a very good job that I like, am good at and am well respected in. I had two close friends among my colleagues. One died, the other retired and moved abroad. It happens. So I'm not some oddball that can't make friends and I do intend to make more.

HazeDoll

"in a dire emergency ... she would be the best one to call on ... if she harbors hopes of a reconciliation that's her problem."

Look at what you've written.

You want it all on your terms. Do her a favour and put her from your mind completely. It would be very wrong of you to look for help from her in the future, considering the opinions you have of her. A clean break is needed, even if it might be inconvenient for you. Stop considering her as a backup plan if you need help for your mother or your pets.

I have no idea why you specifically told her you'd leave a key out for her even though she has her own key. I have no idea why you can't revisit the wills with your solicitor because it's the 'middle of winter'. I have no idea why you are so determined to prolong contact with her. The more I read of your responses the more complex your own difficulties appear. I said in my first response that we can't control other people's actions but we can control our own. Somebody else suggested seeing a counsellor and it seems like a very sound course of action for you to take.

Big Bag of Chips

At the moment in a dire emergency and by that I mean really dire she would be the best one to call on and given how badly she has treated us both when we've always been so good to her she owes us that

This is what has most people confused. "Given how badly she has treated [you] both" why do you think you could depend on her to show up in a dire emergency.

You might think she owes you. She mightn't think that at all.

You did post looking for advice. I hope you got some benefit from the thread. And I hope when you're stronger you figure out the most appropriate way to deal with the situation.

Larbre34

You've been very giving OP, but this isn't really a friendship, its a toxic dependency. She is doing both herself and you quite a big favour by keeping away this long.

Definitely change the locks on your home right away, and then if contact does resume in some form down the line, keep it very much at arms length and limit it far more than it ever was before.

This is not your issue to suffer through.

airnwater

OP, I think you've been given good advice by several other posters. Tbh all replies appear well intentioned. Often , people outside a situation can see a clearer path to what needs to be done.

You seem an articulate & intelligent person. 

Tbh I'm really not seeing the problem in sorting the wills & locks asap. I'd predict a sense of relief sorting these things soon, whereas stress levels will for sure rise if your mother's health fails & you both are still entangled with this woman. 

Additionally, your mind will have more time to focus on yourself rather than the current toxic situation. Just an opinion :)

Dial Hard

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121682168#Comment_121682168

"The middle of winter"??? Ah come on, OP, we're in Ireland, not the far reaches of Siberia.

I get that you're feeling a bit under attack here but as I said to another poster recently, you seem to have a problem for every solution. People have laid out very clearly what the logical, practical steps are for you to rectify this situation but you keep batting them away, often for very (imo) spurious reasons.

You don't quite seem to have your own feelings towards this woman and situation clarified in your own head. I don't think it would be any harm to speak to someone about all this.

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121682168#Comment_121682168

Lot of 'nuclear' advice to you and I sympathise - it's all very well for complete strangers on a chat forum to advise you to cut all ties etc. But clearly you do care for this friend's welfare and appreciate the good points in them. My 2 cents would be to try and repair but on your terms insofar as possible e.g. her visiting but not staying over and so on. It's a pity there isn't someone else who can advise you both in person, that'd be best.

Oblivion1970

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121682500#Comment_121682500

1. It's the middle of winter for a 92 year old woman with mobility issues!
2. Yes I do feel under attack which is hardly the goal of having posted here. I read where you said to another poster, in more difficulty than I am, that they have a problem for every solution. With respect, not a helpful thing to say to somebody who at the moment can't see the wood for the trees. I'm sure you mean well but!

@HazeDoll, could I ask you to please not reply anymore? I feel badgered by you which I certainly don't need right now and TBH I'm not sure you are even reading my posts correctly. Where did I say I would leave a key out for this girl? I couldn't possibly have said that as nothing cold be further from the truth. She already has a key which she kept without my consent and I will decide in due course what to do about that. Thanks for your input but enough now, please. Thank you.

HazeDoll

Right. Nobody can force you to take a different perspective on board.

I don't know what outcome will make you happy but good luck with it all, Oblivion.

Oblivion1970

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121682621#Comment_121682621

Furz99, thank you so very much for your understanding. I do indeed care for her welfare, I've known her since she was a teenager and I've always been in a kind of mentor role trying to help and guide her as she has always been very troubled. It's only recently that she has turned so toxic towards me but I shouldn't be surprised as she is venomous towards her own mother. Her mother is not the nicest person but there are two sides to every story.

I so very much wanted to repair this relationship, I mentioned earlier that I was willing to go to counselling with her. But all fell on deaf ears so between a combination of recent factors and a complete refusal on her part to see my point or meet me half way, I've come to the very painful conclusion that I have to cut ties in the sense of cutting her out of my day to day life. It just isn't working and is causing huge stress not just to me but to my poor mother at the end of her life. But I am grieving the loss and last night's episode was very traumatic and a set back.

Thanks again for your kindness.

Hannibal_Smith

@Oblivion1970 please do not back seat moderate by threadbanning posters. Especially when posters have taken time out of their day to try and help you.

HS

Tork

I don't see what the issue is with changing the locks. You've had some heated exchanges with her and you say she was knocking on your door after the latest encounter. Who's to say this is the end of it? As they say, there's a thin line between love and hate. She could turn against you in the way she has against her own mother.

The reason why I asked if she could be trusted with your pets wasn't because I thought she might harm them. But if you were to leave her a life-changing sum of money, who knows what she might do with it? Your pets could suddenly become unimportant to her and end up in an animal shelter.

I agree with the advice about you talking to somebody. There's something odd and unhealthy about your relationship with this woman. Maybe it's not romantic but there's something off about what's going on. We can only advise on what you're telling us and you're under no obligation to tell us any more. I think you should chat to somebody yourself and try to gain some perspective.

Oblivion1970

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121683074#Comment_121683074

Fair enough Tork. She would only get this life changing sum of money in the event something were to happen to both Mum and I together, like an accident or something, which let's hope is unlikely. Otherwise it's just a bequest. The bequests can be changed fairly simply, though still necessitating GP clearance for my mother, but we will get on to that fairly soon. The rest would involve redrafting the entire contents of both wills and figuring out who benefits if we were both to die, a bigger undertaking, one which my mother finds enormously stressful so we are passing on that for the moment. I would ask people to please respect that and not let it be a topic of discussion. But I completely get you. Given how this girl sems to be deteriorating and is refusing to get help, who knows indeed how bad she might get.

Agree too about it being odd and unhealthy. I'm decades older so I don't think she's a closet lesbian, though that has crossed my mind. I think the evidence points to Borderline Personality Disorder. A big feature of this condition is favourite person syndrome, where the sufferer subsumes himself/ herself into this person they latch onto as their absolute messiah. Often it's a romantic partner, but seems just as often it's a much older person who they perceive in a parental role. This girl is extremely immature and around me she tends to morph into a kid. Then they "split" and the favorite person can quickly become enemy number 1 if they feel rejected. I'd bet every cent in those wills that she suffers from this condition which is why I urged her to get help. At least with a diagnosis she can access appropriate treatment.

And yes, I would like to get some counselling for myself too.