A suffocating friendship, what to do?

Oblivion1970

Thanks in advance for reading this very long post.

I’m a middle aged woman, single, no children, only family is my elderly mother with whom I’m very close. The only young person in my life is a girl, now aged 30, with whom I’ve been friends for several years. Though I’m no expert, I’m pretty certain this girl has mental health issues, most likely a personality disorder, probably Borderline, it fits imo.

She latched onto me as a teenager and over the years has become more and more demanding and invasive. She has difficulty managing her life and is always in some sort of crisis. She dropped out of college twice but I managed to coax her back and finish her degree. She comes from a troubled background and her animosity towards her mother who she lives with is chilling.

I’ve always tried to help her and our relationship worked well for a long time. My mother and I became very fond of her as in fairness, she has some lovely qualities and has been very helpful with Mum who is partially disabled. With us having no other family or support, we have really appreciated having her in our lives. She can be lovely company, but she is exceptionally moody, blows hot and cold, hero worshipping me one minute, hating me the next, is manipulative and tells lies.

Over time she became more and more demanding. Always wanting to be in my home, staying for sleepovers, leaving her stuff here, would move in if she could. Zero sense of boundaries, extremely entitled. Quite openly told me she saw me as her mother, to which I objected vehemently, she already has a mother. But she doesn’t listen. Considers herself part of our small family, goes mad if we refer to her as our friend, expects to be included in our mother and daughter stuff, throws tantrums, sulks and stone walls when she doesn’t get her way. Jealous of anybody I might get close to, really possessive. She does have some friends to socialise with but no interest in dating or finding a partner. Just completely obsessed with us, it’s creepy. And an extremely rigid mindset for a young person.

Things came to a head at Christmas. She wanted to spend Christmas with us, we said no as she has her own family and, we didn’t say it, but it would be an intrusion. We took her out to a lovely and expensive restaurant for her 30th birthday and she behaved like a stroppy teenager, barely civil, it really upset my mother. Eventually I lost the plot with her and got very angry on New Year's Day. No contact from her since, a hostile silence, punishing me as she knows I really hate that. Though still texting my mother which makes the poor woman uncomfortable.

I feel I've reached the end of the line with this girl. I feel suffocated, exhausted and creeped out, not to mention the effect on my mother who is just too old for this. So I feel a lot of resentment now too. I’ve tried over the years to reason with her about her excessive demands and expectations of me, even offered to attend counselling with her, all falls on deaf ears. She just projects it all back onto me claiming that I’m the one with attachment issues. So no point in trying to reach out to talk when she is not willing to accept that she has a problem and not willing to seek help. Should I block her on Whatsapp? [her favourite communication] Should I ask for my keys back? [she kept them one time after dog sitting] Is all that too reactive, given how she loves drama?

I feel I want closure but I also find it enormously upsetting and very sad. Relationships are the best things in our lives and I prefer to connect rather than disconnect. I don’t have many people in my life and less in the future when my mother dies. I can’t really tell this story to anyone as friends and neighbours think she’s a lovely girl and devoted to us. Hence my reaching out here. Any insights most appreciated. Thanks again for having the patience to read this.

YellowLead

To be honest this is something that should have been nipped on the bud a long time ago. She helped with your disabled mother so it seems you were quite happy to have the useful parts of the arrangement when it suited. However - with somebody chaotic the chaos will always come as part of the package. It’s not your job to fix her or save her.

i recommend inviting her out for coffee and speaking to her like an adult about it - explain the behaviour you are not happy with and say that for your mothers sake and your own you won’t be able to keep her around if she doesn’t behave like an adult, while thanking her for the friendship and assistance to date.

Toots

Change your locks. Then either block on WhatsApp phone etc or use the approach above and tell her you don’t want to continue the “friendship”. She’s unlikely to give you the keys back.

Purple Mountain

You've answered your own question. You don't want her as a friend anymore and who could blame you?

You can't reason with unreasonable people so I wouldn't even bother trying.

You have the advantage now, she's using silence, so just continue with that.

I wouldn't be taking her out "breaking up" with her or asking for the keys back. That'll only give her drama ammunition.

Just continue to ignore her.

As for your mam, you'll have to decide whether you're going to ask her to ghost her too.

Sounds like your mam doesn't need this drama of her around .

Hannibal_Smith

I feel suffocated, exhausted and creeped out

Thats no way to be with a friend. Just leave her. By contacting her for anything you're opening the lines of communication again. Enjoy the peace and the silence shes created herself. Would be great if your mum could pull away slowly from her. But I wouldn't be contacting her for anything, if you do you certainly won't be getting anything close to the closure you think.

YellowLead

To clarify OP, I meant have coffee and chat with her if she re-engages and persists with contact. If she keeps up the silent treatment then it’s an easy out for you.

Yes others have said this “friendship” needs to end. It’s serving nobody. You are probably spot on with the idea she might have borderline personality disorder, sometimes comes from trauma in vulnerable people, but it’s not your job to fix it. One person with certain types of mental health disorder can negatively influence the mental health of those they get close to. She needs to realise she carries a problem that she must seek professional help for, herself. Your mother needs peace, and I would encourage her to withdraw from contact with this girl.

jj880

I vote for pack all her stuff in bin liners and change your locks. If she comes to the house toss the bags out the window.

If you really want to save the friendship she completes a course of counselling and boundaries are set in stone before she steps foot inside your door again. Non-negotiable.

Oblivion1970

Thank you all so much for getting back, I really appreciate it. It's such a relief to be able to talk /write about it and get feedback, you go crazy turning it round and round in your own head.

@Purple Mountain, you summed it up in one line, "you can't reason with unreasonable people." So true. With some people it really is flogging the proverbial dead horse.

@YellowLead, believe me but I really did try to nip it in the bud. I'd be a fairly straight up blunt person but I think she may have taken advantage of the vulnerability, the fact that we have nobody else. Being attracted to drama she loved to play a leading role in our dramas, one time my mother was hospitalised suddenly and she thrived on it, but was very helpful too, for which I'll always be grateful. She loves to be needed and we needed her. But she was handsomely rewarded in so many ways, always thanked profusely, we're big on showing appreciation and we're generous, so I don't think I owe her any more thanks.

You are all probably right that I should do nothing further. I've been handed an advantage by her silent treatment. It's just so hurtful though as it's malevolent, no doubt about that. My poor mum is very upset but is starting to realise that the friendship is most likely doomed. Agree very much that she does not need that kind of drama at her age.

HildaOgdenx

You are all probably right that I should do nothing further. I've been handed an advantage by her silent treatment. It's just so hurtful though as it's malevolent, no doubt about that. My poor mum is very upset but is starting to realise that the friendship is most likely doomed. Agree very much that she does not need that kind of drama at her age.

The silence is unlikely to last forever, in my opinion - I am sorry to say.

So it's better to be prepared for what you are going to do or say if and when she returns. Meanwhile I would encourage your mother to block the number on her phone. It's not a friendship when there's so much negativity and unpleasantness.

deirdremf

I'd suggest like others have that you don't bother asking for the keys back, as communication is needed for that to happen.

You'd be best off just enjoying the peace. Block her on Whatsapp before she starts up contact again, and get the locks changed.

Then if she phones you, just try to make an arrangement to have her collect any belongings - or better still, pack them up and bring them to her home, that way you will avoid having her in yours and be able to cut short any contact. Drop them off and tell her "I'd love to stay for coffee, but I have an appointment with the dentist in 15 minutes so I have to rush" sort of thing.

wildwillow

Block her from your mother on every platform. She doesn’t need the hassle.

It is very easy to get into your situation as this type of person can be very persistent. My friend is having a similar problem with a neighbour who has latched onto her family He is old, lonely and not talking to his own family, but is extremely manipulative in inserting himself into her family life. So you are not to blame for this situation. Not a surprise that she is also on poor terms with her own family.

Change the locks and be polite but firm if she makes contact. If you decide to continue the friendship make it clear you will socialise on your terms and will not tolerate childish petty behaviour.

Oblivion1970

Thanks for recent replies. Really great insights and very helpful.

@HildaOxdenX [love the username and avatar 😀] you're right that the silence won't last forever. She has done this to me before ie the silent treatment of several weeks, twice before. The first time she renewed contact all apologies. And well of course you give second chances to people you care about. The second time I had other problems going on and couldn't be dealing with her crap as well so I broke the silence, but angrily. She was delighted as she loves chaos and drama. The more shouting, tears, hysterics, the better! She's probably waiting for that this time but I've had enough. And her overall behavior has been deteriorating for a long time.

But while I appreciate the insights above as in block her, don't talk to her etc it's hard to be that clinical when it's somebody that has been in your life for years and that you do care about. I'm convinced it's mental illness, BPD, and that is possibly the case in the situation you describe @ wildwillow, very similar to mine indeed. Borderline Personality Disorder is more common than people realise, is often undiagnosed or misdiagnosed and requires very specific treatment Mental health services in this country are poor as we all know.

But I do agree with everybody and though I'm upset I am enjoying enjoying the peace right now. And because I no longer trust her and feel creeped out by her I wouldn't want to see her anyway. But we both live in a small town and I could bump into her, so I'll have to be ready.

Purple Mountain

I think you also need to broaden your network ,OP.

Your closeness with your mam is very special but outside of home, can you try to forge more friendships?

You sound like a really nice, caring woman so I'd say you'd be a nice friend to have.

Have you hobbies or are there any you would like to pursue? That will help remove you mentally from this other girl along with forging new friendships.

It's time to break the cycle and shaking things up is a great step forward to cut the ties.

Tork

Maybe you could try turning the counselling thing back on her if you meet? Tell her you think it's time she got help you can't give her. Mention it pretty quickly into any conversation you might have. It isn't something she's up for so it'll put her onto the back foot. Then fob her off with being busy excuses etc.

Purple Mountain

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121666944#Comment_121666944

OP, it's not your place anymore to babysit her.

You've been more than tolerant and accommodating.

You say yourself she creeps you out now so it's time she figured put her path for herself including counselling if necessary.

Rubberchikken

Op you've been way more patient and tolerant than I could ever be. This.person has issues a trained professional may find challenging.

Look after your mom and live your life. You owe this person nothing.

Oblivion1970

Thanks again guys.

@Purple Mountain thanks so much for the lovely, kind words and you're spot on that I very much need to broaden my horizons. However I find that forging close friendships as we get older is very difficult. By middle age most people have their close ties and though people are sociable when you meet them in clubs for example, many are not so open to more than the superficial. And we all crave the closer connections. I've been very busy with my job and caring for my mother these past few years and though I like to travel with my cousin who lives abroad, whenever we get the chance, I don't have much time or energy these days for hobbies. But I'm fully aware how easy it is to get stuck in a rut and I'm in one and I will have to make a bit more of an effort at shaking things up as you say. Baby steps though as my confidence in people is a bit low right now, there really are a lot of messed up people out there.

Oblivion1970

I am very shaken and upset because I've just bumped into her out walking. I think she deliberately took that route as she knows it's one of my favourites so she was on the front foot and caught me on the back. I tried to walk past her, walk away, she wouldn't let me. She twisted everything. Said I told her to leave me alone, her generation have an issue with consent. Did you ever hear such insane rubbish!! This person wormed her way into my home and life and now claims she needs "consent" to reach out to somebody she has treated badly!! She silent treated me for the past month out of pure malice, knowing full well that it has an awful effect on me. She would not back down there on the street, acted all innocent, would in no way acknowledge her behaviour. I started shouting in frustration but eventually stormed off. She's since been knocking on my door, I wouldn't let her in.

Another problem I didn't mention earlier is that she is the chief beneficiary of each of our wills. She doesn't know that though. I know I can change it but it's a big deal for Mum as at her age she needs a GP form and all that red tape to prove she is of sound mind. What am I to do? I really am very shaken.

Hannibal_Smith

She's the chief beneficiary in your Wills? She's little more than a friend in that case OP which might explain some of her actions. If you're that close in relationship that you've made a will that she benefits from maybe blanking her isn't so much of a solution. Your mum doesn't need a GP form to change a will unless she hasn't the capacity to make the changes as far as I know?

Oblivion1970

She is not a little more than a friend. She is, or correction, she was a friend, no more. But we have nobody else!! We have no close family as I'm an only child and my father is long dead. So there are only cousins who, though we would be very cordial with, we're not close to as as my parents' siblings, who are all dead, lived very far away. Now I am quite close to one cousin but she happens to have no children either, is older than me and has plenty of her own money so wouldn't really need to inherit everything. We're not rich people but we do have some property, Mum has her savings and I have a good job so we're reasonably well off. Mum and I discussed all this at length and decided that as this girl seemed so good and supportive for so many years, that she would be the most deserving. Now I may have phrased it wrong above, I was so upset earlier. If I survive my mother everything goes to me bar bequests to a few charities and a sizable enough bequest to this girl. If my mother survives me it's pretty much the same ie all goes to Mum but a nice bequest to the girl. If anything were to happen to both of us together, she gets pretty much everything, bar bequests to charities and some cousins.

So we need to make changes, at the very least remove the bequests to her in both our wills. At Mum's age she could die soon. But Mum does need GP clearance to even make a small change in her will. Our solicitor who really goes by the book, is adamant about that.

It's a mess and I'm just really upset. This girl is very toxic.

Rubberchikken

Op by the sounds of this person I would prefer to be alone in this world in the most remote place than have her in my life.

Approaching you like that in public, berating you etc is not on. You do not deserve any of this.

My advice is get to a solicitor with your mother. Change your wills. Leave all to whoever you wish but not this person.

Ahe doesn't deserve anything from you not even your time.

Yes she may need professional help but that is not your responsibility.

It's time to look after your mum and yourself before this matter gets completely out of control

Big Bag of Chips

Surely you can just bring your mam to the GP, get the paperwork that's needed and then go to the solicitor? Does your mam want to change her will?

Oblivion1970

@Big Bag of Chips, yes she absolutely does want to change it. But hates the GP rigmarole. Seemingly it's quite rigorous, basically testing if she is still of sound mind which Mum is but those things stress her out. We actually only updated the wills last June and Mum was all satisfied that it would definitely be her last will and testament. But needs must. But the poor woman is 92, albeit an excellent 92, and I hate to see her in such stress over this bitch.

@Rubberchikken, I completely agree with every word. But what do you do when you are on you're evening walk, minding your own business and you get waylaid like that!! Unfortunately it's a small town. Now when I got home I sent her a text warning her to never ever approach me or my mother again. And then I blocked her. But she was up knocking at my door after that!

Thanks guys for your replies, I really appreciate the support and am trying to calm down.

HazeDoll

Maybe I'm reading this wrongly but it looks like you need to think about your contribution to the situation. You can't control her actions but you can control yours and it might be worth reflecting on your actions so far.

You said "the second time I had other problems going on and couldn't be dealing with her crap as well so I broke the silence." You had a lot to deal with so you initiated contact with her? Why on earth did you do this? You say she loves drama but I suspect she's not alone in that.

I'm not entirely clear what happened in the exchange when you ran into her today. You say, "She twisted everything. Said I told her to leave me alone, her generation have an issue with consent. Did you ever hear such insane rubbish!! This person wormed her way into my home and life and now claims she needs "consent" to reach out to somebody she has treated badly." I'm afraid it looks like you told her to get lost, she stopped contacting you and now she has to defend her lack of contact.

You object to her considering herself part of your family but she is the main beneficiary of both your wills? How does that make sense to you?

The thrust of your posts seems to be that you are suffocated by her but you feel hurt by her silence. Surely you can see the contradiction in that. Your need to hear from her suggests you are getting something from all this too and you need to acknowledge that and then put a lid on things sharpish. If she is unwell or suffering from a personality disorder of some sort you are not helping by making her feel indispensable in your family and then rejecting her. You have changed the rules of the friendship, keeping her at a disadvantage. The fact that you refer to a thirty-year-old woman as a 'girl' provides an insight into how you perceive the 'friendship.'

Do her a favour. Cut her loose and let her get on with things without worrying about you or your mother. Make it clear that no further favours or communication are expected from her.

Join a drama group, an art class, anything that might let you build up a social circle of your own.

bucketybuck

Sounds like a result honestly, a bit of a short sharp shock that got a lot of unpleasantness out of the way. You should be glad you went on that walk, now you don't need to dance around trying to explain anything, its been said, she knows your mind and from this point on you can just tell her to jog on.

Hannibal_Smith

I've never heard of needing GPs say so to make a will. But maybe its a new thing for solicitors? A solicitor meets their client, takes their instructions and drafts the will accordingly. But if a GP is needed for your solicitor so be it I guess.

There are lots of friends I am close to but I wouldn't put them as main beneficiaries in my will. Despite all the grief she's brought you, she's brought enough support for you to include her in your will.

But look maybe you've taken a step back and realised the relationship isn't what you thought that's fair enough to step back with no further discussion or comment needed. If however its a knee jerk reaction to an almost family member I'd have a rethink.

Oblivion1970

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121678398#Comment_121678398

I know you're trying to help and you're trying to see it from another angle, maybe from her confused angle which I suppose is fair enough. But not exactly helpful as I've beaten myself up enough. Please understand that we try to negotiate relationships from a healthy perspective and try to keep them healthy but sometimes we get blindsided by very mentally unhealthy people.

"You say she loves drama but I suspect she's not alone in that." You suspect wrong. I'm not into drama, can't cope with it, don't want it. I got back in touch that time because I thought she was my friend and cared and I needed her and at the time, though I knew she had issues, did not suspect a personality disorder which has since very much reared its ugly head.

I've already explained why we left everything to her in the wills. And she doesn't know anything about our wills.

Of course I wanted and got something out of the friendship. Friendships and relationships are interdependent, we need them. But we need them to be healthy and we need boundaries. And I really tried to to establish boundaries while still being close. That shouldn't be unattainable. Changing the rules etc etc will be confusing to a person with a personality disorder, a person who is not able to do healthy attachments.

And my referring to her as a girl. Well first off she's decades younger than me and I see her as a girl. But her behaviour is that of someone half her age so where do you go! This bullshyt of "consent" about her generation is crazy. She's a 30 year old woman as you say, but she thinks she's only about 18.

Anyway, look I appreciate you're presenting another angle, fair enough, but there is no denying this person's awful behaviour, which none of us are prepared for in someone we thought was a friend. And it sucks.

Oblivion1970

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121678465#Comment_121678465

People of very advanced age, probably over 90, need to prove they are of sound mind, hence needing GP clearance. Yes possibly came in with the plethora of laws in recent years, but it is what it is.

We thought this girl was "an almost family member" but we have since have realised that she instigated that, not us. She was extremely pushy and wouldn't accept "friend" status. Her behaviour over the past few months, on top of previous bad behaviour, has us re thinking her role in our lives.

We probably won't change the bit where if something were to happen to us at the same time, she'd get it all. We'd be gone and she'd look after our pets and have a home and money which might benefit her so we're happy to leave that in place, at least for now. But a sizable bequest if either of us die! We're not happy with that given her recent appalling behaviour, so we've been talking tonight since I got ambushed by her out walking about changing that part of the wills.

Bear in mind that this girl has not been told about the wills. But I'd say that's on her radar as she has passed hints and is in no way stupid.

Purple Mountain

Sorry that rubbish happened to you this evening. It's childish and drama.

But see it from a different perspective.

That should be your closure and confirmation.

She's blocked now, so no contact will happen.

I know it's an extra chore taking your mam to the GP and solicitor but look at it as a once off task that will finally get her out of your lives.

If your mam is due routine bloods or something, you could kill 2 birds with one stone that day.

Take her out for lunch or something after the solicitor.

Then just forget about this girl. She's not your problem to fix and she clearly needs professional help.

If she comes back to the door, don't engage. Just tell her through the door, it's time to leave and she's not to come back.

Don't forget to book a locksmith too for next week.

Move on now.

Hannibal_Smith

'We'd be gone and she'd look after our pets and have a home and money which might benefit her so we're happy to leave that in place, at least for now'

What? Look, I'm not relying to grill you. But this girl that you can't stand, you're happy for her to leave it in place that she'd look after your pets, have a home and money? It just seems there's a different dynamic unfolding.

You still are here though, regardless of the relationship. If you want it to end, it ends. Change the wills and leave it there.