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Who to vote for to massively improve public transport?

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  • Registered Users Posts: 28,538 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    So you don't know if the current Luas P&R spaces are oversubscribed, that's what I've thought. I've never seen the car parks at Sandyford or Stillorgan stops full, though I wouldn't often be there at rush hour.

    So I'm not convinced that we need more Luas P&R spaces on this side of the city anyway, unless anyone has better information.



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 14,073 Mod ✭✭✭✭monument


    Play the ball and not the man. Read the charter before posting again.

    -- moderator



  • Registered Users Posts: 287 ✭✭gossamerfabric


    This is tiring. Few will drive on a clogged M50 from Blanchardstown or Finglas to park their car at a P&R on the M4 just to fill up a parking lot which maz be full by the time they arrive to use a tram which departs from the M4/M50 interchange. Do you understand how idiotic it is to labour over this point and do you appreciate(I think you know exactly what you are doing) that you are diverting discussion



  • Registered Users Posts: 287 ✭✭gossamerfabric


    Familiarize yourself with the methods by which Trolls troll and steer conversation. I am out of this discussion now which was AndrewJRenko's intent anyhow.



  • Registered Users Posts: 28,538 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    I'm asking you specifically about Luas P&R which you raised. You seem to be diverting discussion away from that.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 287 ✭✭gossamerfabric


    I am out of the discussion.



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 14,073 Mod ✭✭✭✭monument


    Read the charger before posting. You had the cheek to clearly break the rules and accuse another poster of trolling.

    Also: No more pronouncements about if you're out of the discussion or not. It's off-topic. If you don't want to respond, just move on.

    -- moderator



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 39,015 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    Cycle lanes are for cyclists, outside of city centers they are not used for commuting. Cyclists don't use them a lot of the time anyway. They are the most pointless endeavor as they help no one. We need prioritised bus routes, a luas expansion, and as you say, metro.

    So the many people who cycle along the Sutton/Clonyarf promenade to and from the city each day aren't commuting?

    There are cycle paths along my commute and they're shite so I generally won't use them. If they are designed with cyclists in mind then they are likely to be good. If they are designed to clear the road for people driving (as is usually the case) then they won't be used!

    Cars are not evil although the Greens consider them to be the bête noire. They are a component of the holistic transport solution which the helpless commuter is forced to default to as the portions of the solution which aren't personally owned by the commuter are lacking.

    I presume that your perception of the Green Party's agenda is based on Facebook rants rather than what the party actually claim (and I'm not a member!). I don't think at any point the GP have claimed that cars are evil or that they want to rid the world of them or whatever other daft notions some people have. They want sustainable transport, lower traffic congestion, shorter commutes, reduced energy use and emission outputs - is that not a good thing? (points taken from the Transport Policy page on their website). Would it not be a good thing to have less traffic on the roads so that those that *need* to drive can do so more easily? Is it not a good thing that kids can safely walk and cycle to school so that parents don't need to drive them there?

    As for your comparison with Amsterdam, I'm sure that you were aware that it was a car dominated society until the 70s when the people said that they had had enough of children getting killed.

    However, the problem with comparing the positives in Amsterdam and the negatives here is that here there is no political will to rock the boat which makes it more difficult for us to catch up with NL. Even the introduction of a cycle lane here will cause residents groups to be up in arms citing bogus crap about the end of their lives as they know it. Just look at the muppet in Fairview who closed up business blaming the cycle path works which hadn't even started. Look at all the muppets who still think his business was harmed by the works and continue to reference him in discussions. Look at the residents objecting to Bus Connects routes because their on-street parking spot will be taken away and they don't want to have to convert part of their garden into a parking spot.

    This country over the last six or seven decades made the choice to go down a different transport path compared to Amsterdam. We chose to invest heavily in roads and underfund our public transport systems. The only proper investment project in maybe a century was the Luas. Only in the last few decade or so have we started trying to improve our public transport system and despite the constant NIMBYism, it is slowly getting there.

    Now which political party will continue to advance that? Definitley the GP and maybe the SDs & Lab. I'm assuming the current trio will continue as they are doing. Would a SF led government continue investing (meaningfully) in PT? I honestly doubt it.

    Post edited by Seth Brundle on


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,776 ✭✭✭SeanW


    The Northern half, maybe. But it was the gobshite in chief Eamon Ryan who got the Southern portion of the Metro cancelled to placate the NIBMYs who are their "base" so to speak.

    The greens don't seem to want to do anything but make everyone's lives miserable.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,817 ✭✭✭Alkers


    As above, the greens are by far the most proactive regarding modal shift, active travel and public transport.

    Eaman Ryan I am not a fan of as a transport minister due to his take on many essential roads projects but the other parties lag far behind the greens in terms of public transport commitment.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 13,925 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    wow i thought you'd be a big supporter of the greens, who'd have thunk it. they may make your life miserable but they certainly haven't mine, i would take a bit more responsibility for your own happiness if i were you and not try to blame it on a minor partner in a coalition government.



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,537 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    What I find interesting about this topic, after over 70 posts, no one has pointed to any parties manifesto and said, look here, they have amazing plans to improve public transport!

    Clearly non of the parties really give it any thought.

    For me, the only game in town is the National Development Plan (NDP), it is a good plan, put together by experts, which if delivered I believe would transform Irelands public transport. Really we just need the politicians to get out of the way and execute on it.

    The only thing I want to hear from any politician or political party is: "I fully support the NDP and if in government I guarantee it will be delivered".

    Anything less and they don't get my vote.

    Sure, if they say something like, I fully support the NDP and want to accelerate it, building more Luas lines and start working on parts of the All Ireland Rail Strategy, then brilliant. But I don't see anything like that from any of the oppositions manifestos. Frankly they are ridiculously weak and embarrassing.



  • Registered Users Posts: 23,713 ✭✭✭✭zell12




  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,537 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    Note I said: "from any of the oppositions manifestos." The Green Party are in government and are thus not an opposition party.

    Fair play to them though on delivering most of what they promised in their manifesto, which is why I said in the second post of this thread that the Greens are probably the most public transport supporting party.

    a pilot €365 public transport annual pass modelled on the fare structure first introduced in Vienna in 2013

    It is a pity they haven't delivered on this, it is a fantastic idea that would be as big a success as the €2 90 minute ticket.

    It will offer free public transport for students

    This hasn't happened either, though the €1 90 minute ticket for under 26's is brilliant too and personally I'm not a big support of free fares, I prefer reduced ones.

    It will introduce a 'one tag' scheme for multi-leg journeys to allow users to take any number of trips in any direction on any form of local public transport for two hours after use of the Leap card.

    We got 90 minutes rather than 2 hours, but still fair enough.



  • Registered Users Posts: 71 ✭✭halfpastneverr


    Green's are the only ones arsed with attempting to improve PT & they will be decimated in the next GE because of it and (mainly aulder) people's misguided opinion that they want to remove gas boilers and fires from houses and force everyone to use public transport or become a lycra wearer. FF/FG have never given a fiddlers about PT (if they did, PT wouldn't be in such a sorry state here) and SF are too afraid to have any opinion, lest it costs them votes & keeps them out of power.

    I don't think PT is going to fare well in the next GE, so hopefully, at least a few more busconnects corridors get approved and start proper planning before it. I really, really doubt I'll see a Metro built in my lifetime & I'm early 40's. Would be delighted to be proved wrong on that front, obviously.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 48,552 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    the only party actually making changes in the current government are the greens. they've done more in the past few years for sustainable and public transport than FG managed in the previous 10, with a fraction of the TDs.

    i was reading an irish times article a few months back; i think a miriam lord one, and an unnamed government minister was quoted (i think FG), stating 'we don't actually stand for anything' - referring to his party. the only raison d'etre FF and FG and SF have to run in election is 'we should be in charge' - there's no actual interest in changing anything, they just want to be in charge for the sake of it.



  • Registered Users Posts: 303 ✭✭csirl


    Green party PR machine out in force!

    The reality is that we're in the final year of the current government term and not a shovel in the ground in either the metro or Dart+. Nor has there even been any mention of any further major projects i.e. additional metro, rail, luas lines.

    If the Greens really wanted these projects, they'd have made some progress by now. Reality is that they could be shelved at by the next government. The trick with major infrastructure is you must get shovels in the ground within a single government cycle or its likely never to happen. The longer something goes with no progress, the more likely it doesnt happen.



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,537 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    I'm sorry, but that is complete nonsense!

    The government can't force ABP to hurry up, they are an independent body. And if the planners don't do this right and ABP review it right, then it will end up in front of the courts which no one wants!

    The government has been pouring tens if not hundreds of millions into these projects. But they are such big projects, they will realistically take a long time to plan.

    Do you honestly believe Sinn Fein or Social Democrats could force it through ABP faster? How exactly?



  • Registered Users Posts: 303 ✭✭csirl


    ABP doesnt take 20+ years! It doesnt take 4-5 years either. Plenty of major projects have gone through planning in months rather than years. If a government really wanted to progress these projects, they'd have been progressed by now.

    If the greens were really committed to public transport, there'd be several more metro/luas lines and other projects being queued up behind the airporr metro.

    Judge them by what they do, not what they say.

    To be honest, I havent seen any of the political parties advocate for more major public transport schemes, so I assume that none see it as a priority or alternatively they are afraid to bend the EUs capital spending ratios.



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,573 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    To be fair, no he didn't.

    The southern half was cancelled because they found a sewer blocking the planned route to the surface at the Grand Canal.

    That meant they'd have to go back to the drawing board design wise and start again, and rather than delay the whole project even further, they decided to curtail the route to the northern half.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,244 ✭✭✭howiya


    Still a good outcome for the Rethink Metrolink group which Ryan was supporting.



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,573 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    This is getting a bit ridiculous.

    The original Metrolink plan was cut short to Charlemont due to the sewer being found to be blocking the route. Nothing else.

    Nothing to do with Ryan or any other group.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 39,015 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    If the greens were really committed to public transport, there'd be several more metro/luas lines and other projects being queued up behind the airporr metro.


    Judge them by what they do, not what they say.

    What you're conveniently forgetting is that the Greens are part of government, they are not the government. When they and the other parties were negotiating the PFG, they put forward their list of "demands" as did the other parties. It does not mean that they get to implement all of their demands. Ryan cannot just line up fifty metro projects as he sees fit - he needs cabinet approval for funding to get the ball rolling.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,244 ✭✭✭howiya


    The thread is about who to vote for on the grounds of what party will do most for public transport.

    It's not ridiculous to point out that the current Minister for Transport was campaigning against the original Metrolink plan for the benefit of nimbys in his constituency when others are suggesting that people should vote for him and his party.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 48,552 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    i remember an interview with i think eamon gilmore, when labour were in government years ago; a somewhat smug interviewer asked him a question i think sent in by a listener; along the lines of 'well, you're in government now; are you going to apologise to the people who voted for you, for all the items on your manifesto you've clearly failed to implement?'

    gilmore's response was a very robust one along the lines of 'you're basically asking me to apologise for not winning the election; yes, we had those items in our manifesto, but here's one crucial point: *we didn't win*. we can't implement every item in our manifesto if we don't win'.

    so a very easy response to people claiming their are things in the green manifesto which have not been implemented - this is a reason to vote for them even more, not even less.



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,573 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    It’s also important to be factually correct, which the earlier assertion about it by the other poster was not.

    As Minister he has brought the current project through cabinet approval to where it is now - with ABP.

    There’s a difference between what was said in the past and what he actually has done to be fair.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 25,634 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    What they are also conveniently forgetting is that they do not appear to have the slightest idea how planning works. You can indeed rush a crayon drawing of a metro route out quickly, but it will be eviscerated by ABP and the courts and never go anywhere. It is infuriating, but no the Metro planning could not have been done appreciably quicker by anyone. Undoubtedly there are fine margins somewhere that could have been squeezed, but the methodical nature of the planning was precisely chosen to limit the risk of JRs so that is actually gets built.

    Where you can ascribe fault is in the under-resourcing of ABP itself which is certainly delaying things by a number of months at least, but that is not in the Greens remit.

    There is in fact a National Development Plan, though the Greens could of course put out some pointless paper about 4 more Metro lines but it would be incredibly pointless. It is just not how government is done.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,565 ✭✭✭Beta Ray Bill


    They are sure are, and not a minute to soon. I sure hope they are ok, the last DARTS Alstom provided didn't work out to well. And the 85** series provide by Tokyu have seating issues (That we're stuck with for at least another 20 years). X'trapolis/Adessia platform seems ok though.

    #lastminutedotcom

    I do feel the Howth junction issue requires massive investment.



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,856 ✭✭✭✭whisky_galore


    Independents thrive where locals feel they're not being "looked after" by a party candidate.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 15,856 ✭✭✭✭whisky_galore


    Most parties are terrible. FF historically has been awful with public transport, FG only slightly better. Greens are only interested in their affluent urban fanbase, who are about the only ones ok with Green policies.. mainly giving people with cars a kicking and only offering a painted-on push bike lane and not attractive public transport.



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