Why have we never seen another SSIA scheme?

BillyHaelyRaeCyrus

It seems crazy to me that the government has never created another SSIA scheme. It would solve most of the issues they have with the electorate.

Take Housing:

People paying rent cannot afford to save the vast amount of a deposit

An SSIA would cover the deficit.

If the government timed it right and it gave say 100,000 renters a real home they would be elected in a landslide

Take Cars/Holidays:

People who struggle with the cost of living could suddenly have a dream holiday or buy a nice car when the savings matured. Time this for an election year and hey presto, people feel like their lives are good/economic conditions are good and elect the goverment back in.

Considering the massive surplus the state has it amazes me that they are doing none of the things that made FF in the 2000s so popular with the electorate (public pay rises, 100% mortgages, SSIA etc)

ottolwinner

it was good the first time. Ahh memories.

mrperty2011

I was in college around the time and economics lecturer said if it’s the only thing you learn from this subject is take out an SSIA !!

NIMAN

It was too generous

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058331446/why-have-we-never-seen-another-ssia-scheme

The SSIA gave a fifth extra so it would not provide anything close to the level of assistance you are expecting. And your incredibly simplistic idea that giving out cash would fix the housing crisis is, well, incredibly simplistic - it would just push prices further up and you'd still not be able to afford it.

Also, the SSIA was a long term savings scheme so it would be assisting people for a purchase in 2029, absolutely bog all use to buy votes - the election has to happen within the next 12 months. And I'm exceptionally unwilling to have my tax revenue pay for someone to get a 'dream holiday' or 'nice car' and piss money out of the state in the process; so a party proposing something so stupid would be off my ballot paper not on it.

Additionally, it was not done due to having a surplus - it was done to try cool down consumer spending. Something they really don't want to do now when we're in a technical recession already.

Podge_irl

Ireland has relatively high household savings as it is. If anything they should be trying to encourage more spending.

Jim_Hodge

The whole point of SSIAs was to slow down an overheating economy, not to out more money into it. It was a five year lock in of savings, so not the quick fix the OP wants. As for how anybody struggling with the cost of living at the moment could gain, by putting away funds they don't have, defys logic.

Goldengirl

Ah but wouldn't it be nice all the same , and we heading for an election !😊

AMKC

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121620839#Comment_121620839

it was not generous enough if you ask me. Still the best thing I ever done with money do. Never would have been able to buy a house had I not done it. I was always wasting it on trash. If I could go back in time I would tell my younger self do not buy all them things all them stupid games and computers and media to save the money and it will be a benefit in the future and will not regret it.

Anyway can not do that just go forward and make the present and future better. Can not change the past.

BillyHaelyRaeCyrus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121620883#Comment_121620883

I was 10 when it started so my memory of it is an uncle buying a new BMW with his. And Eddie Hobbs shows talking about spending it. Great times really how well everyone was doing then. So I was of the belief it was a cash bonanza.

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121620891#Comment_121620891

The release of funds contributed to critical overheating of the economy, helping prime the crash that killed housebuilding and is directly responsible for why you can't afford to buy one.

So you're basically asking for the thing that you spend so long complaining about to be made worse.

Jim_Hodge

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121620891#Comment_121620891

It was an additional 20% on top of usual interest after locking a lump sum away for five years. It was great when it matured but it's not what you are looking for now.

anewme

I had six weeks in Australia and a Brietling watch out of mine! Leftovers furnished my house at the time.

BillyHaelyRaeCyrus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121620919#Comment_121620919

Then please explain to me what is so different today than every other time since the 1930s.

Renting was never a thing in modern Ireland, students and new arrivals to Dublin rented for a year or two but everyone working owned a house or if they didnt work got a council house/flat.

The rental market as in with working people living in it with no choice started in 2009. So why is it that giving people money before lead to house building but it wont now? Why am I part of the first generation since my great great grandparents to have landlords, what has happened thats irreversible? And will social and culture views towards non homeowners change in the coming years as a result?

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121620972#Comment_121620972

None of this has anything to do with the SSIA; or the idea that giving you and other prospective buyer sa bit more cash will do anything other than make prices dearer by exactly the same amount.

The SSIA payouts pushed prices higher too - on houses, cars, hot tubs and anything else people wanted to buy.

Atlantic Dawn

I was sorry I didn't dable in the equity based SSIA instead, returns were even better than the 25% of the standard scheme.

BillyHaelyRaeCyrus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121620977#Comment_121620977

Well giving a deposit through an SSIA scheme to everyone who wants one will cause a construction boom like the 2000s.

But can you actually answer why I am from the first generation in independent Ireland that has to rent? What has changed so fundamentally to mean such a massive social and economic shift in how this generation lives

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121620989#Comment_121620989

Because we're not building enough despite new builds being incredibly lucrative. Suddenly juicing the demand side isn't going to fix that.

Also an extra 20% on some savings after 5 years is going to do nothing to help you buy a house.

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121620989#Comment_121620989

We already have HTB and First Home already doing that. It isn't causing any further boom because there are no builders available.

I can tell you it has bugger all to do with angling for even more handouts to increase the price of houses. If anything they're making it worse for you; just as the SSIA did by making the crash deeper than it needed to be.

twiddleypop

The Departure of Finance issued a consultation late last year on the funds sector 2030. One section was on the taxation system on investments.

They issued an update shortly before Christmas. 200 responses were received most of them urging them to reconsider the archaic taxation of investments and to consider ISA style accounts as they have in the UK. You're punished for saving and investing in Ireland. Loads of posts on this subject on the Irish personal finance thread on reddit about this. Plenty would have been making similar points to you above in consultation responses.

I'd worry any proposed revisions would be shouted down, even if they were ultimatlely beneficial to ordinary people.

Department of Finance also consulted on a national Financial literacy strategy last year. It's interesting that we have one of the highest rates of 3rd level education in Europe but for some reason, score lowedt on Financial literacy tests. Most people have no idea how bad a deal they are getting: bank charges, returns on deposits, taxed on investments, management fees on pensions etc. I believe the SSIA accounts were originally part of a plan to improve and incentivise saving- I also can't understand why they aren't doing something like that for people trying to save a house deposit, instead of inflating prices with the help to buy scheme. The cynic in me says its just not in government interest to fix the housing crisis (Or they are just unbelievably incompetent).

Department of Finance will probably fanny around with these consultations for a year or two and do nothing about it. I'd love to know what they are spending on these consultationals- imagine they are resource heavy. The current taxation and financial system is not beneficial for low and middle earners.

I could rant endlessly on this topic.

Buddy Bubs

I was in college when it launched. I didn't have much money to put in it but I did have some shares in Irish life & permanent about 6 grands worth which I cashed in and used some for college spending (beer) and set up SSIA with it too on standing order. Graduated from college and upped it to max amount for the remainder. It was the equity based one so it grew very well and then the government bonus on top.

Ended up being the deposit on my house in 2010 which was about half the price it would have been in 2008.

Strumms

i doubt the government could afford such a giveaway with everything else going on.

Charles Babbage

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121620919#Comment_121620919

The SSIA was an good idea, the flaw was that it was ended to suit a politically expedient deadline. Had it been structured to end only when the economy slowed down then the funds would have become available to people in 2008 when they would have been useful to people and in keeping some money in the economy.

Jim_Hodge

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121620989#Comment_121620989

You really haven't grasped what the SSIA scheme was all about. It was to take money out of the economy in order to slow it down. You're looking to inject free money into an already inflationary economy.

BillyHaelyRaeCyrus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121621014#Comment_121621014

Its not causing any further boom because the new build costs and criteria is out of reach of anyone who is single and many couples. It just means people who can afford a second hand house can buy a new build instead

Nothing is being done for average income single people renting in Dublin or other cities. We need to return to 100% mortgages and bigger than 4 times lending. Give people mortgages based on how much they have a track record of paying in rent. That or expand social housing by 100x the current output. People cant rent long term, its just not a life

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121621048#Comment_121621048

You don't understand the basic concepts here

Give every prospective first time buyer 20k and the price of the house they want will go up by 20k. They end up absolutely no better off than before. Money gets burned. If you can't afford a house now you will be even less able to afford it when all the people who already could get given a wodge of cash to buy and push the prices up.

Giving people mortgages beyond stressed tested levels is why we are still dealing with such a huge amount of long term defaults - so no, that shouldn't come back either. The cost of running a house is a lot more than the mortgage so if you can just afford rent at X amount you absolutely and utterly cannot afford a mortgage payment of the same amount.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121621048#Comment_121621048

There is absolutely zero problem with selling new builds. It is overwhelmingly in the interest of developers to build at the moment.

Clo-Clo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121621048#Comment_121621048

Don't ruin this thread with the same stuff which has already been debunked on multiple other threads.

billyhead

You could say the new AE scheme will be like an SSIA although it's for gains in retirement.

BillyHaelyRaeCyrus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121621054#Comment_121621054

but when we lent much larger amounts everyone could buy a house and we didn't have a housing crisis/ rental market/ people living at home.

And before that everyone got a council house who didn't buy. My grandparents benefitted from purchase of council houses in the 80s.

So what basic concept am I missing that no other generation in modern history had to rent/live at home except mine?

The people burnt with negative equity etc are all better off than renters and those who got mortgages that they struggled with are too. In fact I cant think of a position that someone could have come out of the celtic tiger in worse than renting today

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121621079#Comment_121621079

We had people who absolutely could not afford to buy houses buying houses and ending up in mortgage arrears.

And no, we always had council house waiting lists. They wouldn't be as bad if we'd not done the Thatcherite nonsense of letting people buy them, though.

The fix for you not being able to buy is not a handout, and it is not giving you a massive mortgage with unsustainable repayments either.

The 08 crash, caused by nonsense such as just what you want now, is why you're renting. It gutted the construction sector to a level it has not recovered from and destroyed the conventional method of developer finance.