Dublin ranked as second worst city in the world for traveling by car

bk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121621598#Comment_121621598

Yes and we don't, so until we do, we have to give more road space to buses, bikes and trams.

Not that Amsterdam doesn't give the majority of road space to bikes and trams too, despite their Metro, because they definitely do. In fact they are increasingly pedestrianising streets, removing on street parking, etc.

In fact they are currently busy ripping up city center motorways and converting to parks, etc.

Thelonious Monk

It's funny that people think a Metro will be the solution to all our traffic problems. One line will help alright but there will still be far too many cars driving everywhere. I think the main problem is people taking their car out when they don't actually need to, but that's a cultural/lifestyle thing and I'm not sure how that would ever be changed, the cul de sac I live in is about 400 meters from a strip of shops and I always see some of my neighbours flying down in the car instead of walking.

Beta Ray Bill

@bk

Amsterdam and Rotterdam are better because they're planned cities. You can easily see that from the maps, all the roads and streets are straight and equal distance apart. Someone designed that, and did a very good job. Nearly the whole lot was built on reclaimed land so they weren't gonna f**K it up with stupid designs and the "That'll be grand attitude" we have here

It s far cry from the narrowing/widening and winding streets of Dublin.

It's also flat which if perfect for cycling.

I'm of the understanding also that the city design is quite distributed with relation to business placement, with the idea being that people going to work aren't all going to one small area. (I could be wrong though)

erlichbachman

Well whadda ya know, its impossible to get anywhere around Dublin without being stuck in a jam, and yet the solution is to narrow roads further, and maybe even pedestrianize more areas of Dublin, its almost like the end goal is to have everyone walk, ergo no more traffic jams. Decision makers are truly incompetent.

John_Rambo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121620286#Comment_121620286

As a motorists I find the early green for cyclists great. Gets them clear from the ASL, particularly when they're shoaling or grouped. Means cars can take off in a timely manner without waiting for cyclists to ungroup & sort themselves out into single or double file in the bike lane with the faster ones ahead.

Thelonious Monk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121622535#Comment_121622535

i get around dublin all the time and jams aren't a problem, key is not to use a car unless you have to. having everyone walk, or having more people walking instead of driving would be great yes, that's why they're improving footpaths and light sequences etc. in favour of pedestrians.

erlichbachman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121622590#Comment_121622590

That’s fantastic, so we are going to be able to walk short distances, but having a city which can be navigated by car is just too much to ask, that “key” you mention is maybe only suitable to a minority of people, those that don’t actually have to get around the city.

Just one question, aside from the m50, when was the last time anything was actually done to improve the traffic situation in Dublin for driving a car?

danfrancisco83

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121622447#Comment_121622447

The key is to make public transport a better option than the car, I think we are getting there. I used to drive to work from Dunboyne to Holles Street area, took about 1 hour leaving the house at 9.15ish. I tried the 70 bus and it was (still is) a disaster. The bus takes about 70mins to get to Merrion Row, so I got back in the car.

But since the 90min fare came in, now I can do a short hop on the bus to the train station (5mins), train flies into Connolly in about 26mins, then hop on a Dart from there to Pearse which only takes 10mins, all for 2 quid. I wouldn't dream of driving into Dublin in the morning now.

Thelonious Monk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121622698#Comment_121622698

it kind of is too much to ask, cars are the most inefficient form of transport out there so we should focus only on making every other alternative a better option

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121622321#Comment_121622321

Richard Guiney (CEO of Dublin Town) himself said that the pedestrianisation of Capel Street has presented many challenges. He said less and less people are availing of "services" in the city centre and are ordering online or going to there local M50 Shopping centre. 

That's as may be, but business owners are notorious for vastly overestimating the volume of customers who arrive by car. The parking on Capel street was predominantly used by shopowners on the street. No one in their right mind drove to shop on Capel St expecting to park there. Frankly, I don't believe him.

Liffey Valley at least have introduced parking charges. I don't disagree with the general idea of them not being able to avail of free parking.

Buses hold up buses because buses bunch because of intermittent congestion where they share the road with cars. You need end-to-end bus priority or bunching is inevitable.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121622718#Comment_121622718

The 90 min fare is a long overdue godsend for public transport. I'm not sure people in general realise it exists enough sometimes.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121622476#Comment_121622476

Rotterdam is a planned city because it was completely razed in WW2. Not sure that's a great planning technique for Dublin...

Also, in the Netherlands in general, congestion in cities is not bad cause no one drives in them. Congestion on the motorways can be horrendous.

Thelonious Monk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121622777#Comment_121622777

to be fair, most of suburban Dublin was built 1950 onwards, pretty much everywhere outside the canals, i was looking at pictures from the 1950s of where I grew up in Artane taken from the sky recently and it was all farms, with some of the estates starting to be built. We had a blank canvas just like Rotterdam but didn't plan very well, but then we seemed to be and still kind of seem to be unable to accept urban living and apartments etc. Semi-Ds all the way.

Beta Ray Bill

@Podge_irl

Buses hold up buses because buses bunch because of intermittent congestion where they share the road with cars. You need end-to-end bus priority or bunching is inevitable.

But this is not possible to fix. If a car needs to turn left or a bus needs to turn right they're going to intersect. There is no fix for this. Banning car from roads is not a solution.

Buses are good in small capacity, they provide handy transport short distances. but bunching a heap of them up together on a road is a disaster. If one has to stop all the buses behind it have to stop if there is no layby (Which there isn't in most places)

bk

Yes, take cars off the road and you don't have congestion.

I don't think people understand the scale of the problem. Our population is growing quickly. In the last 20 years alone, 1 million extra cars were added in Ireland!

If everyone who lived and worked in Dublin brought their car, it would be chaos. Traffic literary wouldn't move for hours. Depending and which survey you look at, only 20 to 25% of people get into Dublin City by car, the other 75 to 80% get in by walking, cycling or public traffic.

Now imagine is all those people decided to drive instead! It just wouldn't work.

And the population of the GDA is estimated to increase by another 500,000 over the next 20 years. Now imagine they all decided to drive.

The reality is a city like Dublin simply can't use cars, it is a pure maths problem, there simply isn't the space on the roads and the parking to fit everyone driving. You literally can't fit them all.

The only solution to this problem is to encourage people out of their cars and into more efficient forms of transport. Walking, cycling, public transport.

There really isn't any alternative. Not doing this will simply mean congestion will get worse and worse.

erlichbachman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121622753#Comment_121622753

But the focus is on making it the only form of transport, by neglect. There are other needs to consider, not just of those who have no great necessity to get around the city.

Thelonious Monk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121622857#Comment_121622857

well you'll either have to deal with horrible traffic all the time and make peace with it or find another way to get around, traffic is only going to get worse and worse as the population increases

BlueSkyDreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121622411#Comment_121622411

You cant make those pedestrian changes (which I would love to see also) until you have a viable alternative to bring people to/from the city centre.

An Underground is the real solution obviously, but that is a decades away (decades away from an intergrated system, not just a single line)

In the meantime, we dont have any major plans in progress to develop the tram sysytem (tiny Green Line extension to Finglas - big deal) the BusConnects network is hamstrung by lack of drivers and lack of road space, (which could help make bus travel preferable to car journeys) but this wont be achieved because the car lobby is too strong.

The roads will never be significantly prioritised to buses in Ireland. We have to accept that and quit with the "what ifs"

The cherry on top is the constant protests in Dublin every Saturday now have rendered the Luas and some bus journeys unusable, so we have a major disincentive to use the limited public transport that we do have.

Underground is really the only way to go, then we can embark on the major public realm/pedestrian improvments, which I would totally love to see also.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121622832#Comment_121622832

It is possible to mitigate, the problem is that it is not popular. The best example I can think of being coming off the M1 at Whitehall. They had to put barriers up along the whole way to stop the bus lane becoming the defacto left turn lane. It causes a bit more congestion for cars, but the buses going into town are no longer having to wait multiple light cycles to get through. Where cars and buses have to share roadspace you just have to give the bus priority for as much as possible. The difference between a 10m left turn lane and a 50m left turn lane could be multiple light cycles for the bus.

Liam O

Do people really expect to be able to sail through a city centre in a car? In any country?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121622832#Comment_121622832

Nearly very city I've been in abroad has a high capacity bus network. I'm not sure what you are talking about here.

BlueSkyDreams

Has there ever been a feasibility study completed on connecting Brides Glen Luas station to Shankill Dart Station?

Its only 1.8km directly, but would mean people accessing the coast from the Green Line wouldnt need to drive and vice versa.

An underground opportunity perhaps?

Thelonious Monk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121622951#Comment_121622951

2 busconnects routes were given planning permission recently, if bus lane cameras are rolled out along with the new infrastructure, the car lobby aren't really relevant any more to these routes

PopePalpatine

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121622777#Comment_121622777

I dread to imagine how long it'd take to rebuild Dublin if a similar disaster befell it. You'd have the Georgian architecture fetishists claiming random piles of rubble are architectural heritage.

erlichbachman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121622865#Comment_121622865

Or, how’s about we put some of that car tax money into funding areas which improve driving in the city, rather than this pipe dream whereby someone went on holidays to the netherlands and now has some picturesque vision of the population walking to work with a cheesy grin on their face each morning. Completely oblivious to the fundamental needs of a society.

orangerhyme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121622972#Comment_121622972

There's plans to extend the Green Luas line to Bray but can't be done at the moment as the Green Luas is at capacity.

If it was upgraded to Metro, they could do it.

bk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121622951#Comment_121622951

Again, I need to point out, that most people already get into the city by public transport. Twice as many people get into the city every day by bus then car, never mind, DART, Luas, etc.

The reality is with projects like BusConnects, we are going to give more and more road space to bus and cycle ways. It won't happen overnight of course, but it has been and will continue to happen over the next decade.

Metrolink of course is badly needed, as is Dart+, but even before then we will still need to get the buses moving as quickly as possible and give them priority over the cars.

Keep in mind bus use is up 20% from pre-covid, that is a massive jump and shows BusConnects, even in it's early stages is working.

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121622832#Comment_121622832

Actual enforcement of the bus lanes and yellow boxes would go some considerable way towards improving the flow.

Cars entering bus lanes illegally when they’re turning left when they’re actually supposed to stay in the main traffic lane until the end of the bus lane are a scourge on the bus service.

The wands installed along Harold’s Cross Road and Rathmines Road towards the canal, and on the Swords Road inbound at Whitehall Church have significantly improved the flow of buses’ movement.

But just look at Conyngham Road inbound approaching Parkgate Street - it’s ridiculous. A massive line of cars all blocking the bus lane.

Thelonious Monk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121622981#Comment_121622981

improve driving how? we already spend billions on roads every year. i've never driven to work by the way, nor has my partner, so different people have different needs.

orangerhyme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121622992#Comment_121622992

The 90 minute €2 fare has been very popular I think.

Touch pay by phone or card would be great.

Vienna has an annual ticket of €365 for all public transport eg Metro, Bus, Tram, Commuter rail.

I think that would be a good idea once Busconnects is close to completion as a promotion.

It's about €1000 a year here for just one mode and €1550 for all modes eg Dart, Bus and Luas. €365 for that would be very popular I think.

Beta Ray Bill

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121622969#Comment_121622969

I know the road well, I pass it often. Buses still get jammed with cars trying to turn left. albeit not as badly

Gas thing is, this could have bee design SOOOOO much better when the port tunnel was being built given that it passes under bridge and there's a wasted median in the middle of the road.

The could have brought the ramp from Shantala road down in the middle Lane allowing buses to continue straight, cars turning left could get in lane prior going under the bridge. Far better solution, no traffic intersecting, buses left unimpeded. But did they do that? No.... Cause why would you bother like?... what's there is "Grand"