Jeffrey Epstein documents unsealed

eightieschewbaccy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121569069#Comment_121569069

I'm not sure if I'd put much belief in that. Epstein most likely engaged in plenty of bullshit peddling too or equally his brother could be bullshit peddling. I'd put a lot more credibility in what was stated to authorities.

Peregrinus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121569098#Comment_121569098

The only reference I have seen where Epstein talks about this, he wasn't defending Hawking; he was defending himself. And it was in an email to Maxwell which, when he wrote it, he presumably did not expect would ever become public.

Basically, so far as I know all we have is Epstein (who we must treat as unreliable) saying that there are claims circulating that Hawking was involved in "an underage orgy". Epstein doesn't say who makes that claim. Epstein implies, without actually stating, that he believes the claim is untrue. All this is in a private email from Epstein to Maxwell but, given Epstein's reputation, that doesn't necessarily mean that what he says should be treated as reliable.

I accept that some of the allegations made about Epstein may be false or exaggerated. But I take claims made by victims far more seriously than anything said by Epstein himself, who has deep-seated psychological motivates for saying or implying that he knows disreputable things about famous people, and obvious personal motivations for saying the opposite.

Oscar_Madison

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121569141#Comment_121569141

I take your point wholeheartedly about Epstein's reliability but still, considering it was a private email, it looks more likely than not to be a genuine statement - without over analysing it that is.

My main point is that there’s been a hell of a lot of hot air about Epstein over the last number of years; how he had the good and the great in his pocket; cameras all over his house capturing dozens or hundreds (depending on what rag you read) of famous people in compromising positions- the reality is a whole lot tamer than that and this latest “hype” just shows how little evidence there is of widespread abuse of underage or indeed of age girls, by famous people other than by Epstein himself.

It’s as if a name is mentioned in these files and people go oh look, x person is mentioned, he must be a pedo- without even reading the context in which they’re mentioned. And often there’s very little to go on anyway to form any clear view either way

I was expecting a list of CEOs of companies and other similar industry leaders and all sorts of accusations but this naming has been quite a non event so far.

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121568979#Comment_121568979

I’m inclined to believe it less likely now that he had sex with her.

So the queen gave her 10 million for the craic?

Oscar_Madison

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121569184#Comment_121569184

It’s very possible- 96% of civil claims in America of this nature are settled in advance of going to full court hearing -you could have many reasons why you wish to settle- the only real “evidence” in this case besides Guiffres testimony was a photo taken in Maxwells London flat of Andrew and Guiffre - Andrew had previously denied being upstairs there and denied ever meeting Guiffre- that photo essentially put paid to that statement - it was game over for him - a judge based on probability would have sided with Guiffre- paying out whatever sum doesn’t legally assume guilt - court of public opinion obviously may differ - but I can see why Andrew was forced to settle, mainly due to the Queens upcoming coronation but also because Andrew taking the stand would not have been pretty.

Whether he had sex with her or not will never be fully determined unless new damning evidence or a confession from him is forthcoming- neither are likely- after that believe what you want- a settlement “proves” nothing but is quite damning in the court of public opinion and it obviously means game over for his royal career and rightfully so -neither you nor I can be proved right or wrong in our view so don’t bother trying with your catchy outy quoting of my posts - I’m immune to that lark at this stage

artanevilla

Surely they can exhume Hawking and download the details off his hard drive as evidence?

Gregor Samsa

Just to be clear about Stephen Hawking, here's the mention of him in the document:

From: jeffrey E. <jeevaccation@gmail.com>

Sent: Monday, January 12, 2015 10:03 AM

To: Gmax

you can issue a reward to any of virginias friends acquaionts family that come forward and help prove her allegations are false the strongest is the clinton dinner, and the new version in the virgin isalnds that stven hawking partica-ted in an underage orgy 

(this is the email in it's entirety, verbatim from the documents, spelling mistakes and all.)

There's also another mention of him, where Ms. Giuffre is requested to provide the original copies of any photos or video that she has of herself and a number of listed people, which includes Stephen Hawking. In response, Ms. Giuffre's representatives object to the request, on the grounds that she alleges that it is Jeffrey Epstein that has the media, not her.

It seems some people had the idea that the "Epstein List" was a document with "People I knew who had sex with children" at the top, and then a list of all their favourite "liberals" in alphabetical order below it. It's clearly not like that, and many people are "mentioned" in various contexts that don't amount to an allegation of wrongdoing at all.

Edit: there's a PDF version of the document here that's easy to search: https://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/24253239/1324-epstein-documents-943-pages.pdf

Oscar_Madison

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121569236#Comment_121569236

Even if they could, you could argue that his hard drive was hacked before burial 🤪

crusd

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121569055#Comment_121569055

In the frenzied fantasies of Maga/ Q-Anon world. Ignoring that Trump is actually on it and Mar-a-lago frequently on it.

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121569234#Comment_121569234

How many of those cases are settled with a payment of 10 million?

What you are saying here is Andy is the real victim, he just so happened to be Besties with a prolific rapist and trafficker of young women?

Guilt by association.

Poor fella, can't sweat either.

If it was just all lies I wonder why his mother stripped him of all his titles. Strange that, it's almost like his own family don't believe him.

the only real “evidence” in this case besides Guiffres testimony was a photo taken in Maxwells London flat of Andrew and Guiffre - Andrew had previously denied being upstairs there and denied ever meeting Guiffre

Apart from the other witness and the photo evidence yeah it sounds like they never met.

😂

Gregor Samsa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121569249#Comment_121569249

The word "Trump" is mentioned 4 times in the documents (that I can find - there's an image on the previous page of this thread of another mention, but I can't find that text in my search, But even still, it doesn't imply any wrongdoing). One of those mentions is in relation to one of his casinos, and not to him personally. There's no indication that he was in the casino at the time. Here's the 4 mentions:

Q. And you said that you recall landing in Atlantic City. Did you go into Atlantic City?

A. Yes, went to one of Trump's casinos.

Q. Did you actually go into the casino itself?

A. Yes.

Q. How did it come to be that you were in a casino in Atlantic City?

A. We, as we were flying, Jeffrey said, Why don't you go sit in the cockpit to check out the landing? So we were sitting there, and the pilots told me to go back and tell him that we can't land in New York and that we were going to have to land in Atlantic City. Jeffrey said, Great, we'll call up Trump and we'll go to -- I don't recall the name of the casino, but -- we'll go to the casino.

Q. Did any of the guests for whom you gave a massage mention that they expected something sexual?

A. No.

Q. Did they ask you to engage in sexual contact and you refused?

MS. McCAWLEY: Objection.

THE WITNESS: No.

BY MS. MENNINGER:

Q. Marvin Minsky?

A. I don't know that.

Q. George Lucas?

A. No.

Q. Donald Trump?

A. No.

Q. Did you ever massage Donald Trump?

A. No.

People really need to temper their expectations about what a "mention" in these documents actually means.

Former Former Former

This reminds me of that time when the lunatics all convinced themselves that Donald Trump was going to bring down the international conspiracy of paedophiles (on a very specific date, 2021?), and the date came and went and it was never mentioned again.

These files just seem like a lot of very dull documents, the sort that you would see in discovery of any civil suit. Even Epstein saying that Bill Clinton "likes em young" is hardly news when we knew he had an affair with an intern while president.

drunkmonkey

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121569022#Comment_121569022

Lewinsky was 21, Clinton was 49. A comment like that might be true but doesn't mean what he liked was under age and there's nothing in the files to suggest otherwise from what I can see. There's one part where it suggests they were trying to set him up with two 17yr olds but he didn't fall for it.

mikewebber

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121569042#Comment_121569042

That stuff is all written for him

Carlito Brigantes Tale

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121569329#Comment_121569329

The man's a creep.

crusd

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121569302#Comment_121569302

The point is Maga / Qanon are working themselves into a frenzy about names they have imagined are in the documents but aren't while ignoring what is actually there.

The Irish conspiracy fringe appears to be worknig themselves into a frenzy about the fact that Epstein appears to have attended an event in Dubln that a prominent Irish music star also attended. There is wild speculation about Irish elites that were also at it and all part of the "ring". In their ludicrous minds the idea that someone may have once been in the same room as Epstein automatically means pedo.

Oscar_Madison

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121569477#Comment_121569477

Thanks for posting that - was beginning to think I was participating in a conspiracy forum the way some posters have added 2 and 2 and got 47

Gatling

professor Stephen hawking gets mentioned as taken part in an orgy .

Get the feeling alot of names were added for shock value

volchitsa

The claim of Ireland being more culturally conservative compared to the US would be quite hard to argue these days. That sounds to me more like a Muslim country TBF.

Wanderer78

what a fcuking horrible human being, and the cnut never got what he deserved!

StrawbsM

Isn’t DOE 107 a victim rather than a perpetrator?

Understandable that she would want to remain anonymous if living in an ultra conservative country.

Rjd2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121569034#Comment_121569034

Best post in the thread tbh.

Keep seeing viral tweets and pretty much all of them misleading for engagement or tailoring their tweets to keep their respective echo chambers happy. Dire.

eightieschewbaccy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121571258#Comment_121571258

Yep names are lobbed around but they rarely include what was stated in relation to them. Some are simply mentions or two words being picked up as proof.

Penn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121571258#Comment_121571258

Wait, are you implying that Aaron Rodgers, the NFL quarterback who suggested Jimmy Kimmel might be on the Epstein list based on absolutely nothing and likely just because Kimmel made fun of him a few months ago on something unrelated, may not be an accurate source of information?

Well now I just don't know what truth is any more....

Northernlily

It may be a reach but I feel like this has Mossad all over it and names being dropped at a time when Israel are about to be dragged before the Court in The Hague over their genocidal activities in Gaza

It feels like a warning shot and I'm sure there are many nervous influential people they have in their clutches if they want to.

I realise this may be a wildly conspiratorial claim but the timing for me is interesting.

gmisk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121571319#Comment_121571319

Ha ha

The show he was on is furiously back pedalling today as well...I'd say they scared of getting sued too

TomTomTim

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121571377#Comment_121571377

It's very likely the work of Mossad, but we better not say anything, or we'll be labelled "conspiracy theorists" by the very people who claimed that stuff like this was a conspiracy theory in the first place.

Penn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121571377#Comment_121571377

It's unlikely to be Mossad as the documents and names have been in the possession of the courts for quite some time; it's only that the info is being released and unredacted now following months of legal process.

And a warning shot to who? Alan Derschowitz (a huge pro-Israel advocate), Stephen Hawking (dead scientist) and Bill Clinton (not in any political office)?

Timing isn't interesting. It's two completely unrelated things which have no effect on the other. The Epstein documents have been in the process of waiting to be released for months now, they've just been going through the standard legal processes. It's not like they've been suddenly dropped on Wikileaks or something.

Brussels Sprout

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121571444#Comment_121571444

Would you stop with your facts, logic and reasonable arguments. Don't you understand that this is a moment for getting off your chest whatever your particular favourite conspiracy is. If anyone questions you you can then imply that the "real list" backs you up but "they'll never be allowed to release that".

silliussoddius

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121571377#Comment_121571377

It is a reach. And the second paragraph sums up a lot of people: "it didn't reveal the entire cabal of people I don't like, there must be another list".