Calf to beef thread

Anto_Meath

@Finty Lemon I have them in pens of 5 and feed them 5 at a time. Two pens been fed at the 1 time. I buy them mostly from my BIL at about 3 weeks old. So that why the aren't all coming in together. I have an electric undersink water heater in the shed so that works out fine.

If I was to invest it would be into an automatic feeder. But as I see calves as the least profitable venture on this farm the jury is out on weather or not its worth investing any much more money in it. I feel I would need to be rearing 60 plus calves a year to justify an automatic feeder.

Siamsa Sessions

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121573618#Comment_121573618

It was yourself @Bass Reeves and others on here that encouraged me to finish the cattle myself and sell directly to the factory. Thanks very much for what was very good advice (not the first time I got such advice from you!)

Any corner or span of a shed will do for rearing calves when you're starting off. It's the best way to trial any new venture - no big upfront investment and any mistakes you make are on a small scale. I started with 10 calves (alongside the sheep) in an old cubicle shed.

If you get on well with the small numbers of calves/cattle over the first 2-3 years, and you want to go up in numbers, that's when you need to have the right shed to rear the calves and winter the weanlings (and winter them as stores the following year, which will be the reality for a lot of dairy-cross cattle).

I'm at that stage now. I've carried 30 calves/cattle in the same cubicle shed (plus one new 4-span straw-bed shed) over the last 2 years but I'd need to invest €40-50k now to put up a decent slatted shed. It was that realisation that started me looking at milking cows. But that's another story.

My tuppence worth on making a few quid from bucket-fed calves is that you need to get them up in weights. Minimum of 500kg for heifers and 550kg for bullocks. If they have the right genetics and you manage them right so they do that before their 2nd winter, then great. If not, then you need a shed to house them. You're probably better going direct to the factory, but the mart might also be an option - as long as they are that weight.

You might make a few quid selling them at 450kg at different times of the year, but you might also make nothing. The safest thing is to get the weight on them and to set up whatever facilities you need to do that.

Finty Lemon

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121574013#Comment_121574013

100% no need for auto feeder. Are you feeding in buckets or a batch teat feeder?

2x10 in 2 batch teat feeders would have them done in 10mins plus bedding after

DBK1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121574982#Comment_121574982

While I don’t disagree with anything you’re saying, I don’t think @Anto_Meath is talking about just the time to actually have the calves drink the milk.

For someone like Anto working off farm and feeding calves the time you need for that job starts when you get out of bed to put on your farm clothes and doesn’t end until you’re back in the house, hands and all washed and changed into your “off farm job” clothes.

Changing the clothes and washing the hands alone could take the ten mins. You have to walk/drive to get to and from the yard, open and close gates, and most importantly wash all the equipment after the calves drink.

if I had only 20 calves no way would I use 2 10 teat buckets because the washing time for the 2nd one would take longer than waiting for the 2nd batch of calves to drink from the first bucket after the first had finished.

At a minimum, to wash them buckets properly you need to rinse them in cold water, fill warm water with a bit of detergent/washing up liquid into it, use a brush to clean all around the bucket, squeeze a few pumps of water through each of the 10 teats to get the last of any milk out of them, brush all the teats with the warm water, empty that out and rinse all again with cold water.

All them little jobs add up and half an hour will pass by in a few mins!

SodiumCooled

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121575083#Comment_121575083

While I don't disagree with what you are saying re. the time it takes to get ready to the when you get back in (it's something not considered by some) I'm not sure many are going to that level of washing, bedding etc in the morning anyway. We are a suckler system but I've covered bucket feeding for two neighbours and a relation when they would be away for a few days (though 2/3 are gone to auto feeders now).

Initially helped them a few times before doing it alone and morning feed in particular was a very lean operation. Mix the milk, feed it in 10 teat buckets, give a fairly quick hose down with cold water and squeeze to each teat. Top up nuts if needed and gone. No bedding or anything like that was done in the morning, in fact I know now with the auto feeders one visit a day is all they get sometimes talking to my cousin (occasionally if away for a day no visit). They all used to move to OAD feeding too as soon as possible.

Good planning makes a bit difference in my opinion, in any system.

DBK1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121575189#Comment_121575189

Yea there certainly wouldn’t be a need for bedding in the mornings alright but I was just making the point that there’s more to feeding the calves than just them drinking the milk.

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121575427#Comment_121575427

The workload will reduce from 2025 on when dairy farmers have to keep them to a minimum of four weeks.

Big difference between feeding 4 week old and two week old calves. I be reluctant to get an auto feeder for 20 because of that

SodiumCooled

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121575483#Comment_121575483

I wonder how it will impact the bottom line on a calf to beef enterprise. As mentioned I am not the most experienced in dairy calf to beef economics but I have a reasonable grasp of it and I know the prices charged start to go up steeply enough the older the calf is.

Will it actually be adhered to is the other question, especially between farmers with a good working relationship - moving the calves a week early off the books and other such messing.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121575427#Comment_121575427

Fully agreed, the getting to/from the job is often more time consuming than the actual work.

Anto_Meath

Yes that's what I mean, when I am feeding calves the alarm goes off at 6 every morning where as if there was no calves it would be 7.

I tried feeding shine once a day a few years ago & I just wasn't happy with the results. I also like to split the meal into 2 feeds when the calves are young. 1 reason is they go eating the meal after drinking & that stops them sucking one another & the other is I like them to clear up all the meal as that stops the crows coming into the shed eating it.

weatherbyfoxer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121575483#Comment_121575483

Would you every think of going back rearing a few bass?

morphy87

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121573618#Comment_121573618

Good post as usual with a lot of detail

tractorporn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121575830#Comment_121575830

I find that in terms of workload there is no real difference between the calves and the cows, the biggest difference is that like my royal neighbour I'm also working and the workload is a lot more controllable. Yes I'm putting in an hour before and an hour and a half after work but I can manage that. I'm not worried about a cow calving at 3am or coming home and not knowing if the water bag is out 5 mins or 5 hours.

I agree the longer holding period is only going to be of benefit to anybody rearing calves. I intend to keep them on twice a day for two weeks only after getting them and have them on once a day milk by 7 weeks of age.

tractorporn

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These are the first bunch I've gone with. The 4 blues are still on once a day milk the rest are weaned.

Hope to get another 10 Angus heifer at the end of January and another 10 in Feb.

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121576028#Comment_121576028

Preferably not. But realistically it.may make more sense within 7+ years

Dunedin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121576830#Comment_121576830

Lovely calves. Best of luck with them.

morphy87

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121576830#Comment_121576830

Are they Simmentals with the blues? Did they all come from the one herd?You have a great looking bunch of Calfs

morphy87

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121576922#Comment_121576922

Why do you think it may make more sense to go to rearing Calfs within 7 years?

Dunedin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121577255#Comment_121577255

Cos he’ll be on the pension and won’t need the money. 😂😂

Base price

I've been rearing dairy/dairy cross calves in large numbers for nearly forty years. Some things have changed over those years but principally the quality of the calves as dairy farmers moved away from pure British Friesian, the availability of vaccines, the withdrawal of Fulcin, etc. At the end of the day calf is a calf and needs to be well minded when you bring it onto your farm.

@DBK1 made the most valid point in all the posts that I have read so far on this thread regarding feeding calves on CMR and cleaning teat feeders. The lack of proper hygiene and draughts in a shed are going to effect young calves and that is where most problems start. We wash out the teat feeders every morning with hot water and washing up liquid to remove the fat deposits and draw the solution through the teats and wash around them. After the night time feed we do the same but then add bleach to sterlise the teats and leave it to sit overnight. If the weather is cold/frosty then you need to put your teat feeders into a shed so they don't freeze.

As I've previously posted we separate batches of incoming calves into a different shed which is in another yard, vaccinate them upon arrival with Rispoval RS+Pi3 intranasal and those batches don't move into the rearing sheds until we are happy that they are fit and healthy.

We rear large numbers of calves and the majority are sold weaned/off milk, vaccinated and dehorned to other farmers that buy them from us every year - basically they don't what the hassle of rearing them and the rest we rear to beef.

Edit to add - we only offer calves a calf pencil as the jackdaws/crows are not inclined to go for them as much as calf crunch/meal. We always give the calves Agrimin smartrace plus boluses and a oral dose of Bovicox once they are weaned and head out to grass.

Bass Reeves

A pen of yearling/stores

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tractorporn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121577230#Comment_121577230

Thanks. I hope they are lucky.

tractorporn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121577245#Comment_121577245

Yeah 3 Simmentals 2 blues and a limmy in that bunch. I bought off a local lad here who deals a bit so they're not all from the same place but all the Simmentals are from the one farm and all the blues are from a farm in Meath.

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121577255#Comment_121577255

It will not be by choice. I think that a lot of middle of the road calf producers will move away from rearing calf or move to taking the animal all the way to slaughter.

There is a move as well to reduce movements and pay a bonus for this. The ABP advantage and the Kepak/Tirlan scheme.

Now hopefully I am wrong and the market will not move that way but I think it might.

ginger22

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121576830#Comment_121576830

How is the peat bedding working out.

tractorporn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121579860#Comment_121579860

It's great especially when you read lads here talking about bedding every day, the peat is lasting from Saturday to Saturday with top ups and will need a full clean out after a month I'd reckon. This is my second year using it and I think I'll stick with it for as long as it's available I was quoted €48 a bale for straw during the week. The calves seem to like it and once you keep it dry it seems like a nice warm lie for the calves, you can see the hollows from where the calves lie every morning.

funkey_monkey

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121580955#Comment_121580955

Do you lift out the dung pats or just cover up on weekends?

tractorporn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121581046#Comment_121581046

I'm just covering the whole pen with roughly an inch of peat every weekend. I hadn't thought of lifting out dung pats tbh I wouldn't have the time but it would definitely extended the life of the peat. I know @Reggie. uses peat for his calves too.

Reggie.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121582598#Comment_121582598

Yeah I put in about 3 or 4 inches and at the back where they lie I put straw. rarely the straw gets mucked up as its kinda eaten but if it does I remove it. Just top up straw every day or so.

Everything passes through the straw to the peat that soaks it up. Peat lasts for the 10 weeks they are inside

Reggie.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121577549#Comment_121577549

I'm the same with the pencils as there is less waste.

I do once a day feeding and will never go back to twice a day. Serious difference in the calves that go on OAD.

on the feeders I wash out with water after each feed. Pull through the teats aswell when full of water but I don't mind leaving a little fat in it as I find it kinda gets the calves immune systems going being exposed to a little nastiness.

funkey_monkey

Anyone know what's the current cost of a weaned calf versus one still on milk?

Going to buy in a batch of 10 - 12 and wondering if we should skip the lads on milk as by the time they are weaned there would be a bit more visibility of how they are shaping up.