Calf to beef thread

kk.man

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121568756#Comment_121568756

That's why I am on here too ...no arrogance just showing others (who want to learn) what can be achieved.

If people are hell bent on sucklers or bucket feeding calves they better be prepared to do them well because if the don't they could be busy fools and then there is me and others who will take up where they left off. Its not about getting one up its just business.

I dont mind to say I got burnt starting out too and it hurt.

White Clover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121567644#Comment_121567644

Fair play to you Bass. Were you able to lease a bit of land to expand or did you purchase? Did you ever consider running a flock of sheep along with the cattle?

funkey_monkey

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121569035#Comment_121569035

Are you finishing the 400kg ones off grass alone or plus concentrate?

Gudstock

Can anyone tell me roughly how many round bales of straw to an 8x4x3 bale please?

mr.stonewall

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121569291#Comment_121569291

2.25 to 2.5 round. Tend to be be a touch more as they are packed better. Straw must be bone dry from the big squares as they can get a bit mouldy. If I have a choice its big squares. Less storage space easier to work with.

weatherbyfoxer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121569276#Comment_121569276

Depending on the type of stock and if we get drought conditions or not..aa and he stock usually don't need meal at the 26-28 month stage to finish once grass is well managed

morphy87

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121569221#Comment_121569221

ho would you define someone about not doing bucket fed Calfs right? Apart from not making money!

kk.man

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121569961#Comment_121569961

I don't get your question

weatherbyfoxer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121569961#Comment_121569961

Doing calves that don't hit weight targets..if your feb/march born calf isn't 230-250kg by the 1st of November you will struggle make much on them..that my opinion on my past 10 years rearing calves and bringing them to beef anyway.Maybe other find it different

kk.man

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121570273#Comment_121570273

Agree there can be little or no error with calves as they are unforgiving.

funkey_monkey

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121570273#Comment_121570273

That's 245 days, so assuming 40kg birth weight, your target would be 0.85kg/day ADG.

Teagasc say 0.7 to 0.8. So same ballpark.

What quality of silage do you give yours? I think the first winter might be our achilles heel.

Finty Lemon

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121567644#Comment_121567644

Fair play for posting photos, this could become the most realistic Boards thread on beef with that type of honesty.

Can I ask have you silage tested? Just a constructive observation, it looks a bit stemmy for growing stock. Leafier stuff could give you 20 to 25kg extra gain over winter for no cost. Compensatory growth wouldn't make up for it.

Good luck with the batch of runners.

weatherbyfoxer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121571696#Comment_121571696

Needs to be 72%dmd+ unless your going to feed alot of meal

morphy87

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121570197#Comment_121570197

What I meant was define a calf system that you think there’s no money in, I was in a lot of marts last Autumn and any Angus or Hereford 500kgs were freely making €1200 to €1300 with the odd lot making more even 450 kgs were making over €1100

morphy87

If you were selling at stores anything above 450 kgs was making big money, you can see above some of the prices mentioned

KingPanko

@Bass Reeves "If you can manage to keep your wintering costs sub a euro a day and gain 500+ grams a day( most of these sort of cattle will have a bit of it)"

What do you feed them in their first and second winter? Thank you for all the information, great to learn from each other.

KingPanko

What do ye think is the most profitable system of dairy x beef calf is? Finish at around 20month old or treat them as stores in the second winter and finish them off grass in the third grazing season? If finishing off grass would you feed some meal out in the field when finishing or grass alone?

kk.man

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121572187#Comment_121572187

I never said there was no money in any calf system. What i was saying they are busy fools whom I and others make money from. I don't fancy running around with milk powder, scour, vet bills and extra mussels. I don't need to feed cattle at some un godly hour in the morning before work. Add up that.I was out in the marts last Autum too and there was many sellers losing money selling bucket reared stores.

You mentioned figures above. Those prices are good but are only so if their age was appropriate for their age. If not those were poor prices. If they were age appropriate why were those farmers selling them? If they were such good farmers why did they not finish them? It would only take Hereford and Angus cattle about 8 to 10 weeks at those weights.

You need to factor in that this years back end was good for store cattle. In another year those prices might not be achievable.

Oh I should have mentioned mortality.

morphy87

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121572567#Comment_121572567

In your opinion what age should they be at those weights?march,april 22?

Previous years I was getting good value with cattle around 400-420kgs but I couldn’t touch them this year, I bought fresians instead

funkey_monkey

Seems like you're saying store sellers are either rearing over-aged cattle, meaning subpar farming practices. Or they are too stupid to realise what they have and should have finished the beast themselves.

So, basically the store market is a dud and paraphrasing yourself they aren't good farmers. Or maybe you can elaborate on what is a good store from a sellers pov.

morphy87

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121572855#Comment_121572855

My neighbour that milks120 British freisian cows sold his store cattle last autumn end of August early September, a shrewd operator

all bullocks, averaged

Angus 440kgs €1220

Herefords 440kgs €1200

limousine 405kgs 1160

kk.man

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121572826#Comment_121572826

March/April 22 HE/AA should be at least 450kgs. I bought Fr 22 bullocks off a dairy man in March this year @ 400 kgs but they were January/Feb...they hung 295kgs in November for me..but he is a good operator. The JAN/FEB calf is miles ahead from the get go.

'Seems like you're saying store sellers are either rearing over-aged cattle, meaning subpar farming practices. Or they are too stupid to realise what they have and should have finished the beast themselves.

So, basically the store market is a dud and paraphrasing yourself they aren't good farmers. Or maybe you can elaborate on what is a good store from a sellers pov.'

I think Bass has more than provided you with evidence of 'subpar farming practices'.

morphy87

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121573069#Comment_121573069

Your right it’s hard to beat the early calf, I’m planning on buying maybe February Calfs this year, did you replace those fresians yet?

Dunedin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121573069#Comment_121573069

What did you pay for the Fr bullocks, what did they come into and what did they cost you. I’d guess €1000 to buy , €250 on costs and came into around €1400. Or am I a mile out?

Anto_Meath

If you have time to spend around a mart you will pick up value every day at it. There is always a few in every ring that for various reason don't make their true value. Colour, age for weight, test, movements, little bit wild looking, or a few lads just not concentrating. If you aren't fussy (which I am not & anyone doing calf to beef usually isn't) then you can make a nice turn on these type of cattle.

I run 20 suckler cows, I rear another 20 lads on buckets and I then spend a few winter nights & bank holiday Mondays at the Mart trying to pick up 15 -25 of these value cattle to match in size wise with what I have.

That way I have 55 - 65 beef cattle to sell every year. Anything R+ and ok movement wise usually goes to the Mart (most of the sucklers) as the Northern buyers give a premium for them. The rest go to the factory. Meal is fed for about 6 weeks prior to sale.

As a part time farmer with a young family it what works for me & thankfully it is paying. I am lucky in that the Mart is only over the road so I can tip over or watch on the laptop & if I only buy 1 animal it's no big deal getting it home.

The most profit is from the 350 -400 kg dairy cross cattle I buy. But it would take me to long to pick up 60 odd of these a year.

The next most profitable is the 20 suckler cows, but again been part time any more that 20 cows calving, AI'ing ect would be difficult.

The 20 bucket reared are work, it's like being a dairy farmer from March until June as you have feed them twice a day which takes the best part of an hour morning & evening, no matter how you are set up, between feeding, bedding and attending to the lads with scours. But what I find these are great for is getting the kids interested in the farm & i get to spend farming time with the kids. Can't have the kids around cows calving. Plus the reared calves are very quite & easy to manage and I find they keep the suckled reared cattle quite too.

But if I was a full time farmer & could spend days on end at marts or even be able to travel south a few times a year to where the dairy reared stock are more plentiful I wouldn't rear any calves on a bucket.

kk.man

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121573156#Comment_121573156

I paid 800e for them .... I think those ones netted 1300 after charges. My costs were 250 ish from memory.

How I got them to 295kgs is something I'll keep to myself. They should have been pushing 310 but it was a bad year.

kk.man

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121573091#Comment_121573091

I did with more expensive ones the same weight but that was the market this autumn.

Finty Lemon

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121573205#Comment_121573205

Not being smart but it shouldn't take an hour twice a day to feed and tend 20 calves on milk. Are there any ways you could streamline?

Are you using a batch feeder?

Group pens 2 x 10 calves

How are you heating water/mixing?

You could go once a day milk from weeks

Buy as one group from a farm, all in all out and feed over fewer weeks plus wean in batches.

Agree its the best way to get young ones interested.

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121572943#Comment_121572943

They were great prices but were the top of the market last year. Neighbour a single man that rears excellent cattle sold 610kg HE for 1300 euro and the same mart has light weights. If he had his Board Bia and slaughtered they have made 1530 at least when he sold in November.

I saw a good lot of 400-450 kg He&AA sold 950-1050 some sold even less. I taught it was enough for them

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121572826#Comment_121572826

It not all about weight and age. There is a lot if cattle going through the mart unsqueezed and with horns. Why lads will not use the lamb rings on calves at less than 2weeks( well that is the official maximum age so we will use that ) or squeezed them in the autumn I do not know

Any lad rearing calves to 6-8 months and reselling is never going to make money and that goes for selling light yearlings or suckler bred stock less than 300kgs

The 3 soft calves I bought all went in as singles. They were badly marketed. First off two should definitely gone in togeather and if it had been me the light calf as well. He had another calf with half a tail he announced he had lost part of it but never announced when. If it had happened a month+ before I would have chanced him he was 240 kgs sold for 130 (I think) I should have chanced him anyway on hindsight. The amount of lads not willing to bunch cattle because there is 1-2 small ones is crazy.

The same with plain suclker stock. BIL is always putting cattle in singles or two's.

The lads around the ring share out a lot of them. It the same with cull dairy cows or Fr heifers that have not gone in calf lads insist on selling as single animals. The dealers around the ring share them out and I nip in for the odd heifer or one gone through the cow ring with no calf registered.

The 150 kg Friesians I bought should have been sold last September/October they probably have been no lighter( maybe even heavier) and would have made the same if not another 30-50 euro.

Look at @Siamsa Sessions after using the mart and finishing a few which will he do from now on.

Any lad rearing calf has to get weight on them the day is gone of rearing them and putting them in a haggard or Orchard until the after grass arrives in August. Actually most lads do the calf until 10-12 weeks ok it from that on the problem start to rear there head where they stop growing as lads have not got a paddocking system for them and do not dose them often enough

weatherbyfoxer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121573618#Comment_121573618

Fully agree,The first year at grass is the make or breaking of bucket calves.We run them ahead of the store cattle and ewes just letting them pick the nicer grass.Dung sampling is a big thing too because a worm burden will knock the socks clean off them