Calf to beef thread

Albert Johnson

I'd be slow to bull anything for sale that wasn't good quality and visibly catchy if you know what I mean. There's lots of demand for quality suckler springers with power, style and generally looking the part. However the lads that used to buy them more inbetween springers aren't really in the market anymore.

I see lots of middling springing heifers sold at or below what they're equivalent beef price would be. As for stars there's a lot of men fed up with the constantly changing values and the fact it's almost bias against suckler bred stock. Between the reduction in the suckler herd year on year and the mistrust of the star system I don't see any increase in demand for middle of the road springers. However you've both options open and the price of them will come in useful at some stage.

funkey_monkey

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121558250#Comment_121558250

What is your reason for staying away from Char?

I was told that Char would be a good option as a Char would only be put on a strong cow to start with, so you should have a decent starting point.

memorystick

How much does it cost to get a calf to a year old? Just on the DD and see nice batches of yearlings and runners for sale at not serious money.

Siamsa Sessions

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121562095#Comment_121562095

Depends on the year but I’d be averaging €400-450 the last 2 years to get a calf to its first birthday. Add in purchase price after that

Albert Johnson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121560592#Comment_121560592

It's hard to buy a CHx type suck calf at anything resembling value even if there out of a dairy cow. Lad's buy them because there out of CH bull and will therefore be ahead of any other suck calf simply because there CH bred. Like everything there's good and bad and there could be a better type AAx, LMx ect suck at less money but the same men wouldn't look at them. They especially appeal to former sucker farmer's looking to buy something that looks someway continental bred and in those cases logic and profit margins are often forgotten.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121562095#Comment_121562095

I've always made that case as regards the economics of rearing sucks. If you had time on your hands in the backend there's always a bit of value to be had in light suckler bred weanlings. There was a few weeks last autumn when you'd buy a fair coloured calf circa 220/230kg sub €600. I seen a friend of mine putting a bundle of them together 1 day at work and I thought them right value. There was a mixture of AAx, LMx, SIMx, an odd BBx and SHx and a Mousey CHx, none of them were sub 200kg and they'd have gotten up to 240/250kg.

I'd rather them in the yard for €600 average with commission and all paid then buying sucks and bags of milk replacer. I think the dearest weanling on it was a CHx at €620 and there was a few lessor black things at sub €500. They'd all have been suckler bred and spring 23 born. The hard work is done with the like of them imo, good silage and a kilo or 2 of meal every day would do a lot with them. If you had a nice spot to get them to grass after Paddy's day you'd have a right bundle of stirks next backend and no carrying buckets of milk and scours ect.

Siamsa Sessions

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121562818#Comment_121562818

That could be plan-b for me: buy lighter suckler weanlings in autumn rather than pulling and dragging with lucky bag calves in spring.

893bet

Suckler economics make little since in general. But selling the calf at 200-250 at the back end makes even less.

Albert Johnson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121562835#Comment_121562835

Yes it's an option although you seem to get on well with sucks and you're in the right end of the country for them. Up here in the suckler heartlands it's probably a bit easier to source the likes of them handier weanlings. Keep up the good work on YouTube.

Albert Johnson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121562842#Comment_121562842

I'm not arguing that it makes sense to sell a calf at that but while some are prepared to do it then it's a mute point. When the supply dries up or the economics change then you could go back to teat feeders and mixing milk.

Personally I could never abide sucks and if calves and milk replacer were free then I'd still find it hard to rear them. I prefer something that's past the real baby stage.

Dunedin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121562818#Comment_121562818

Fully agree re your last two paragraphs. Brought up here raising calves - got wild notion last year to rear 4 calves. Neighbour gave me the pick of his BB calves out of British friesin. 3 heifers and 1 bull for €600 at two weeks old. Costing me around €500/550 ahead between the buying and rearing. I’d have the cost of a suckler cow nearly spent and they’re probably €500 of a difference between them and the suckler lads when I kill then at 30 months.

mr.stonewall

Cost of calf to a year

Replacer €60 assuming bag and a bit, straw €8 calf ration €40 (100kg for about 80 days),summer ration and housing ration €85 (1kg/day) grazing and housing. Vaccines €14- 1 pneumonia, 2blackleg 2ibr. ESB/light €3-10 water has to be heated, Vet€12 covers tb and 2 callouts and a few fec counts. Silage for winter approx 3-4 bales or pit equivalent is €150-200, this includes contractor for slurry and making it, fert, grass and silage, plastic, feeding it out and a few sundries.

It gives total of about approx €425 without the cost of a calf or a mortality cost of about €8 assuming 2%loss. The only benefit is in numbers if you can as they will help dilute some of the fixed costs

Siamsa Sessions

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121562902#Comment_121562902

I bought my share of poor calves around the marts here in the south-east too - there's no shortage of them any where 😀

The 10 AA bull calves I bought last spring were direct from a farmer and I saw the cows in advance. They're going well apart from one who was always a bit small.

I'm happy with the few quid the calves are leaving but there's a world of work with young stock.

mr.stonewall

I hadn't posted here yet, but a few posters had mentioned variability with in breeds, this is huge and is going to be found out very quickly this coming spring, with the genotyping scheme, less chances of hiding poor genetics in a well feed 3 week old calf. It's going to be a game changer, with the Angus as the poor carcase weight, easy calving bulls used on heifers will be shown up. It will be like the start of the BVD scheme where there was a voluntary phase and then compulsory.

This spring the plan is to only buy genotyped calves with a CBV above a certain value. Potentially it could look like having a set price for the average calf CBV and then work on a scale above and below this, leaving out the poorer values.

Bass Reeves

@Albert Johnson Bought a few weanlings this autumn. 650 euro bought them and they were 300 kgs +. Some were sucklers, and some were bucket fed, sone were a bit with a year old. As they were mostly bought September/October they be gone by next Christmas.

@Dunedin while there is no comparing a bucket fed calf to a suckler bred one you will carry two units of calf to beef to a suckler to beef.

There is always value in small plainer and lighter weanlings at the back end and usually on into early February. Young lad bought a bunch of healthy Feb born middle of the road Friesians out of the last mart at Gortalea before Christmas. They were from Clonkilty/Skiberreen direction. 150kgs for 220 euro. They will be on the farm until May/June 12 months. But will probably average 1600+ at slaughter (320kgs@5/kg)

@mr.stonewall there is no way a sub 12 month animal will eat 4 bales over a winter unless its pure water. Have 15 in a pen at present admittedly light 220-240kg average taking 5 days to eat a bale( again admittedly 40%+DM and 75+DMD) and they are barely getting a half kg of ration. They are getting a bit of minerals.

Round bale of silage is costing 32/33 euro. Direct feed costs are about 70c/day, even if they were heavier it would not go beyond a euro a day. I have 14X400 kg average stores taking 5 days to eat two bales and they are getting no ration only minerals. They are costing 95c/day in direct feed costs

kk.man

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121562914#Comment_121562914

A man after my own heart.

mr.stonewall

@Bass Reeves the post had 3-4 bales as the winter quantity. We all need to have a buffer and this year is going to test it, early winter and potential long term cold snap starting. Quality and DM will always vary with each cut but the 3-4 bale bracket is a good safety figure for most farmers.

Albert Johnson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121563239#Comment_121563239

You'd buy rough coloured bulls about here at €2 a kilo from 300-350kg at times last backend. The likes of HEx, SPx, AUx and other off colour types. They'd probably be 12-15 months old, have horns and full bulls but again they'd be fair sorts come next autumn. If you had good land and could get them turned out and thriving early it would be half the battle.

I'd a half notion of chancing a few but I don't think they'd have been fit off our land before next winter. They'd have been let's say 330kg mart weight at purchase in October. I couldn't see them gaining it by the following October especially if you had a repeat of this year weather wise. I wouldn't even try and finish the like of them out of the shed and them sort of lad's never sell that well in the backend even as forward store's. Big plain coloured store bullocks are never in short supply in the autumn.

Sheep breeder

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121562818#Comment_121562818

Agree what you’re saying about the weanlings,it’s all about spending time at the ring and having a price in your head. In one mart local there was one man that would come in for the last two or three sales of the season and buy all them young calve, he always said that they still had time on their sides and a bit of meal would go a long way on them.

morphy87

I bought 20 Calfs myself this year,they got 2.5 bags of milk replacer at €56 a bag,golden maverick, which worked out at €140 a head, they got a kg of meal at grass and 1.5 since they went in in November which up to 31 of December is €90 a head, I’ll be allowing 1.5 kgs till the end of march which will cost another another €54, straw for the winter works out €30 a head and then doses and black leg €5,roughly, feeding pit silage now but 2 bales was doing them the week, so roughly it is costing €320 to bring them to the 1st of April without silage, I’m hoping that they should average 320kgs by then but it might be a struggle as I was short of grass for a while when they were Calfs

Going on new grass, so I’m hoping that they should be 520-530kgs the end of October,weather permitting

funkey_monkey

@Bass Reeves does your ration have no minerals added at the mill?

What minerals do you use?

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121563365#Comment_121563365

You had first winter costs of 150-200 euro for silage and a Kg of ration at grass+winter@85 euro

This gave you an overall wintering cosyt of nearly 250 euro ( you used the 200 for silage from my calculations to get to the 425 euro)

Even with good quality 30%DM silage I feel it would be hard to get beyond a euro a day feeding costs for weanlings Inc a kg of ration. Above 300kgs I be reluctant to feed ration.

130 would be a shortish winter, 160 longish. At a euro a day the cost would be 130-160 with an average winter costing 145 euro Inc ration

I expect to shave 20-40 off that with higher DM silage.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121563720#Comment_121563720

Cattle need about 20 grams of minerals/100 kgs. If cattle are above 300 kgs I seldom feed them ration. At present to a lighter bunch I am feeding half a kg. Most inclusion rates are 3% max while many millers have it reduced to 2% so 20-30 grams in a kg of ration or 10-15 grams in a half kg.

A 250 kg weanling would need 50 grams per day. I try to make sure all cattle have adequate minerals& vits.

Buying form Dairygold at present at 21/25 kg bag.

morphy87

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121563920#Comment_121563920

Is you silage good quality that you are feeding? When did you make it? In your purchased weanlings how much daily would you be hoping for them to put up while in the shed? By the way this is a great thread, great reading

funkey_monkey

What weight/age would you need to have them for finishers to pick up the baton?

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121563966#Comment_121563966

At present feeding first cut made around the 25th of May. Probably the best I ever made but would not get too hung up if it was 7-10 days later. Got it tested for free and it came up 78DMD/44%DM. I have some first cut left over from last years and I am nearlinto that.

Second cut was early August 72DMD/30%DM. Probably not be feeding that until March or maybe not at all.

I say 500 grams plus per day. I am trying to get my scales back working

EDIT We dosed them over the last couple of days the cattle in 10+ weeks have done a serious thrive considering a lot of them were squeezed since arriving in

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121564061#Comment_121564061

I will finish them myself.

funkey_monkey

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121564077#Comment_121564077

And for someone picking up drop calves to rear of buckets. What age weight to send to finishers?

KingPanko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121563239#Comment_121563239

You said, There is always value in small plainer and lighter weanlings at the back end and usually on into early February.

Just to clarify, you are saying if you have housing for them there will be value to be had, just pick them up before the rush of grass buyers comes in? Do you think there is more profit from the poorer stock bought doing the winter than the better stock? Do you have a Euro per kg figure that you look for?

older by the day

No matter what breed they are, you still have to feed them. Like my own, have the steps fallen off of this lads tractor

White Clover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121564563#Comment_121564563

Steps are there alright. It looks like a fair heap of scrap.

Since you mentioned tractors, did the 6610 go ok for you?

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121564186#Comment_121564186

I finish nearly everything off grass. So most cattle are slaughtered at 28-30 months. Some go over the 30 months. There is always a couple that end up finished out of the shed most would probably be over 30 months.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121564481#Comment_121564481

Will the better ones leave a higher margin I am not sure. Never bought expensive cattle. Up to this year I started buying early summer. I always find the earlier an animal is in the earlier off grass he is slaughtered and the bigger the margin.

In total we bought 11 of those light Friesians (I picked up 4 one day as well slightly heavier) with mart fees etc they probably cost around 2800 euro. If I bought 11 fancy 300 kg CHx I probably be parting with the bones of 9k+. Now I probably will not pick up as cheap in the next few weeks.

Usually when I was buying before Christmas I had a target of 2/kg for light coloured cattle ( He/AA), 1.5/kg for FR and 2.2 for nicer sucklers

If you can manage to keep your wintering costs sub a euro a day and gain 500+ grams a day( most of these sort of cattle will have a bit of it)

Taking it you can not get until April 1st assuming that they are onntge farm 100 days yours costs Inc dosing should be 100 euro( I be 20-30 less than that).

Take those light Friesians @220 euro and they weighted badly at 150kgs they be probably 220/230 kgs April 1sr costing me 300 euro. 70-80 euro will be grazing costs next summer and assuming they do 230 kgs at grass they be 450 at housing next November