Charging.

obi604

Thanks. What is the done thing now in regard to these chargers - tethered or un tethered ?

joe1303l

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121539102#Comment_121539102

I’d have a preference for tethered to save faffing about with cables in the rain. If however you’re changing cars in the near future, untethered might suit better. Your next EV will likely require a type 2 cable.

obi604

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121539130#Comment_121539130

it seems most cars these days are type 2. So maybe a tethered type 2.

obi604

Could one just leave the cable permanently plugged in to the untethered setup?

and essentially becomes tethered

What is the down side of this? (Someone could easily steal cable is it?)

joe1303l

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121539140#Comment_121539140

That would my choice.

...Ghost...

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121537977#Comment_121537977

Any good charge point will cost around 500. The VAT saving on the hypervolt and the quality of product and service is why I picked them. You can buy cheaper, but cheaper won't be better.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121538090#Comment_121538090

You might find a decent electrician. My experience was not great. I already had a charger previously installed before grants were available. I contacted several companies for quotes and told them all the wiring was already in place. They literally only needed to install an isolator switch and then a new charger. They all still wanted north of 1000 quid. I ordered and installed the hypervolt myself. It was basically the same as replacing an outdoor socket.

obi604

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121539579#Comment_121539579

some codology going on alright. Like you I reckon the job is relatively simple, it’s just as you say like replacing an outdoor socket.

are isolator switches definitely needed?

my setup; my external socket is fed from a separate 16amp cable and RCBO. I can simply flick the switch in the fuse board down to turn it off completely.

...Ghost...

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121539583#Comment_121539583

The regs require it. But as I simply replaced one charge point for another, it was grand. An electrician would have had to install an isolator to meet the regs and also for the grant.

obi604

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121539590#Comment_121539590

my setup; my external socket is fed from a separate 16amp cable and RCBO. I can simply flick the switch in the fuse board down to turn it off completely.

would I still need the isolation switch?

joe1303l

Yes, definitely needed. Isolator switches are not expensive.

...Ghost...

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121539593#Comment_121539593

While Joe is correct that an isolator switch is technically needed, it would be considered an addition to the circuit, because you would be adding something to the loop. As such, you would be in breach of the regs. Changing the existing power point for another one (albeit a different type/style) is just replacing one for another and does not change the circuit. Stupid, I know. My understanding is that DIY work allows for replacing components as long as those components are outside the consumer unit and the circuit is not modified. This allows for updating and replacing power points, switches and lighting fixtures. I would probably add an isolator if I were to do it again, as it is a safety enhancement and a very minor change to the circuit.

Gumbo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121537710#Comment_121537710

Just pick any charger.

You can change it when submitting docs for payment.

Daveq

If you're in a rented house probably a good idea to check with the landlord first. If you claim the grant I don't think the landlord can then clam it in future if they wanted to fit a charger.

Maybe they might even contribute to it? It would be a benefit to the landlord too?

obi604

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121539151#Comment_121539151

Any thoughts on this one?

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121542757#Comment_121542757

I think if they are going to cut the cable or rip the box off the wall it's didn't make much difference if it's tethered or not.

Almost all the discussions I've listened to on this it comes down making a tidier looking install and perhaps needing a longer cable Vs the convenience of not having to get a cable out to charge, especially if the boot is full. Tethered is usually most popular. If you get something like a Zappi the cable is very neat on it.

But it's about how you use it. Mine was going to be used fairly frequently (short range EV) and isn't on the front of the house. I wanted to make it easier for the other half.

...Ghost...

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121542757#Comment_121542757

Tethered every day of the week. The only reasons for untethered were:

1. Tidier look (assuming you don't leave a cable in it when not charging.

2. You have vehicles which are type 1 and type 2 for charging, so you use the cables from the cars.

3. You have a type 1 vehicle and will change to a type 2 soon.

2 and 3 are null, because you can buy adapters to switch between type 1 and 2. I use an adapter to charge the Leaf. My Hypervolt is type 2. Most chargers are type 2.

allinthehead

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121539872#Comment_121539872

Ev charge points fall under restricted electrical works.

Buddy Bubs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121539102#Comment_121539102

We have an untethered 22kw charger in work (cars can only take 11kw but 2 cars can get full 11kw from it at same time) and a tethered 11kw charger.

The tethered charger is always used by 1st person to come in if it's free. The untethered is a pain in comparison but I think I'm going to buy a cable for it and rig it up like a tethered charger with some form of locking mechanism so it doesn't get borrowed or stolen.

...Ghost...

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121543024#Comment_121543024

In the not too distant future, changing a light bulb will fall under restricted electrical works.

if no modifications are being made to a circuit and the work is being done by a competent person, then I say have at it.

In my case, I wasn’t going to pay an electrician €600, plus grant money of €600 to swap out an existing charge point.

allinthehead

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121543834#Comment_121543834

You can say whatever you want, I'm only pointing out the facts. Carrying out restricted electrical works when you're not competent or insured is illegal.

Did you test to make sure the dc protection on the charge point is working? What about fault loop impedance or rcd tripping times? It's restricted for a reason, but no, random diyer on the Internet knows better and electricians are all robbing bastards.

...Ghost...

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121544040#Comment_121544040

You can call it whatever you like. I'm still not paying "robbing bastards" (your words) for something I am well able to do, which was to replace like for like. If there was going to be a problem, it would have been with the charge point itself, as I made no change to the circuit. I take a different view when modifying, or adding a new circuit from the CU, but for a like for like swap, you can frown all you want...I refuse to be extorted no matter what the regs say I can or cannot do. I don't think it's a fair price to charge €600+ for 2 hours work, including travel time. Maybe i'm an outlier on that one.

From the HSA website...

 “Like for like” replacements of switches, sockets, lighting fittings and/or additions to an existing circuit is frequently carried out in this country. While this must also be in compliance with the Technical Rules, these types of electrical works sit outside the Defined Scope of Controlled Works or Restricted Works.

An EV charge point is a glorified outdoor socket.

allinthehead

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121544247#Comment_121544247

I agree. It should be more like 100-150 to replace an existing ev charge point.

It's not a glorified socket though, it's an appliance and one unlike any other in domestic installations. Not doing adequate safety checks can have serious consequences.

allinthehead

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121544247#Comment_121544247

Just to add, you say if there was a problem it would be with the charge point itself, first of all that's not necessarily true. A trained eye and testing of the existing circuit and other rcd's in the board may reveal problems.

Secondly that's exactly the point I was making, you don't have the equipment needed to test Ev charge points, so how would you know if there was a problem with the new one?

...Ghost...

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121544398#Comment_121544398

I'd have happily paid that for the replacement of the old unit.

I get what you're saying, but it really is just a glorified socket. Sure, the smart ones have a few fancy functions, but the job of the charge point is to supply power to the vehicle. Beyond doing that, it just uses signal comms between it and the car. It's no different than what a granny charger does, albeit at a greater output.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121544445#Comment_121544445

The existing board and board had been checked weeks before I replaced the old unit, because I was looking at getting solar and a new charge point. An old family friend (RECI) looked over my setup and gave it a thumbs up except that I needed bonding done, so I later had everything bonded and an earth rod installed.

Not every electrician has the specialist equipment to check EV chargers. When my first one was installed in 2017, a multi-meter is all that was used. I needed a priority switch installed for the electric shower. Perhaps that's changed since then on a regulatory level, but the basics of a chage point haven't. If the circuit is good, replace like for like. Kill and lock out the power. Test for dead. Swap out units. Check connections are correct and tight. Check switches (if any) are correctly set on the pcb. Double check your work. With unit installed, turn power on. Visually inspect. Check with MM if you have one. I went with Hypervolt because I knew they tested every unit before shipping. My situation was straight forward, so I was very comfortable doing the swap. I'd have liked to add an isolator to the circuit, but that was a modification and so I left it.

allinthehead

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121546702#Comment_121546702

Well at least you did the upgrades required, which not everyone would do.

The equipment required to test charge points is mandatory now. It simulates faults to ensure proper function and isn't that expensive, about 2k including a multifunction tester.

Are you happy with the Hypervolt? It's a lovely looking unit. What put me off getting one was that I had to order from the Uk.

...Ghost...

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121550668#Comment_121550668

The hypervolt is a great unit. Looks neat and discreet and is a solid build. They have a newer unit now which is even better from a build and installation pov. When I had a query, they were very responsive and informed me about a delay start setting which is a default setting, but confused the car when first plugging in. It was causing an issue for the Leaf, but once I changed the setting, it was grand.

Ordering from UK wa no issue. I asked for zero VAT invoice and paid via link. Delivery was quick and I wasn't hit with additional charges. I recently upgraded from the 5m cable to a 7.5m cable. Again, easy DIY job and no problem ordering via hypervolt.

MightyMunster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121542757#Comment_121542757

Yes that's the main downside, cables are in the hundreds so you wouldn't want to lose too many. No real downside to tethered unless the look annoys you.

unkel

You've used the granny cable for 4 years. You are moving house soon. Why bother make any changes now? Just wait until you get the new house and get a proper charge point installed. Unfortunately the subsidy for this will drop from €600 to €300 January 1st.

If you are going to be renting the house, obviously talk to your landlord first. You might be able to do some deal with them about costs

tikka16751

Green Party are winners alright.

allinthehead

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121552493#Comment_121552493

Nice, can it be used if you've no wifi? How do you change settings if the wifi is down?