2024 F1 General Discussion Thread

jj880

Bbc going for the double standards angle. It doesnt look good to be fair.

quokula

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121919993#Comment_121919993

It's clearly within the FIA's remit to investigate a potential conflict of interest that is raised about someone who has close connections to a specific F1 team also holding a senior position in F1 itself.

An internal complaint inside a team where one employee accuses another employee of something that has no sporting implication at all is not really something that the FIA need to be involved with, particularly when an independent external investigator has already looked into it and found no wrongdoing. They're not really comparable at all.

jj880

I concede FIA remit is debatable but Red Bull's investigation was an attempt to make the situation disappear. Happens all the time in big organisations. Those funding any "external" examination call the shots. To think a barrister paid by Red Bull is going to find against them is ridiculous.

Brief_Lives

ehhhh what?

El_Duderino 09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121921821#Comment_121921821

Be fair though. Hiring a barrister is fine, but the investigation had absolutely no transparency. So we can't know whether it was really independent or not. If its transparent and independent then great. If they its independent and show absolutely no transparency, then we can't know whether it was independent or not.

jj880

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121921821#Comment_121921821

There are "independent" experts in every profession for hire to do this kind of white washing. E.g. a government department commissioning reports or research to suit themselves. Either the terms of reference of Red Bull's investigation left out whats important or it was a completely 1 sided effort. Both good reasons to hide the details from everyone.

bren2001

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121922590#Comment_121922590

If you hire someone to investigate yourself and they don’t come to the conclusion you want, you’ve hired the wrong person.

An RB investigation is meaningless.

El_Duderino 09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121923186#Comment_121923186

Yeah that's it. If it had been highly transparent* then they could have said it was independent. But the complete lack of transparency doesn't suggest it was actually independent.

* Transparency would include publishing the report, the investigation question, the scope, the methodology, the findings and conclusion and so on.

jj880

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121923186#Comment_121923186

Ive seen "independent" investigations first hand where the complainant managed to get a fair outcome.

Re-investigation ordered with the sole purpose of burying the complainant properly 2nd time round. There are whole departments dedicated to this in large organisations.

If anyone actually thinks there was a possibility of Hewitson getting a fair shake and Horner getting sacked as a result of Red Bull investigating themselves they really need to give their heads a wobble. Thats not how these panto internal investigations work.

I hope she exhausts Red Bulls appeals process and either gets a big pay off or goes legal.

mickdw

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121923362#Comment_121923362

Ya clearly internal investigations might not be great when the boss is involved however knowing the background here with the power struggle, I'm of the belief that the lady knew what she was doing and this whole situation was set in motion by Jos.

Personally I hope the verstappens leave redbull and Horner stays.

skipper_G

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121923186#Comment_121923186

The investigation was initiated by the parent company Red Bull Gmbh, not Red Bull Racing. That's an important distinction.

Ted222

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121922590#Comment_121922590

Why should we necessarily care though?

These things happen all the time in business and the way they conducted the process is consistent with best practice. It’s a private matter and it would be unethical and unfair to both parties to make details available publicly.

It’s nobody’s business really. The notion that it’s important to have transparency is nonsense for a sport that has races in countries that have scant regard for human rights, never mind sexual harassment or inclusiveness.

The bigger question is why RB chose to even publicise the issue in the first place. Unless they just wanted to be on the front foot before the story was leaked.

JustAPoorDreamer

So the current drivers and team standings after 2 races,

3 Ferrari drivers in the top 10. I wonder when the last time that was if ever? Anyone know?

Widdensushi

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121923650#Comment_121923650

You are grasping at straws for interest there,,,roll on 2025 season.

quokula

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121923650#Comment_121923650

Mika Salo got into the top ten alongside Irvine and Schumacher after Michael broke his leg in 1999.

El_Duderino 09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121923629#Comment_121923629

I think you're missing the point. We should care about the investigation because the outcome would likely determine whether Horner stays with Red Bull or not. Since red bull said its an independent investigation, now we should care about whether the subject question of the investigation occurred or not.

If it was just an allegation of an affair then its none of anyone's business beyond Jeri and Christian. But because it was a more serious matter, then it became interesting because of the knock-on effect of changing leadership at the best team in the sport at the moment.

The investigation itself is interesting because they said it would be independent and instead of being transparent, they behaved as if it was a whitewash by showing zero transparency.

Why should we care about the leadership of the best tam on the grid or whether the investigation was a whitewash or not? Sure that kind of stuff is catnip to human curiosity

Spudman_20000

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121924650#Comment_121924650

Let's be real here, the main reason this is rumbling on is other teams see this as an opportunity to destabilise a massively dominant team that they haven't a hope of beating for at least 2 years. They couldn't give a fig about "transparency".

Widdensushi

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121924777#Comment_121924777

A lot of the rumbling seems to be caused internally.

El_Duderino 09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121924777#Comment_121924777

Yeah, and I'm not involved with any F1 team, and I do care about the investigation and transparency.

For me it's only rumbling on because Red Bull said the investigation would be independent, then behaved as if it was a whitewash. It's an example of the Streisand Effect.

When the investigation was announced, I gave them the benefit of the doubt and waited for the investigation conclusions instead of giving in to the speculation and all that guff. Now we have an investigation and no waynto know if it was independent or a whitewash.

Now we still don't know what actually happened between Horner and the accuser. And that was the question that started the whole thing and it's important because it has consequences for the leadership of Red Bull.

jj880

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121923384#Comment_121923384

For sure. The individual who benefits the organisation the most financially gets special treatment.

I must admit I dismissed the Jos mastermind theory when I read about it.

Was Jos involved before or after she was pulling Horner off on flights to Dubai?

JustAPoorDreamer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121924792#Comment_121924792

🤣🤔😂😂

Ted222

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121924650#Comment_121924650

I understand your point perfectly.

My point, in response, is that the investigation was conducted by the book for private organisations and in accordance with best practice.

The fact that other parties (including ourselves) would like more of the details doesn’t mean they should be shared. We are not entitled to transparency but the parties at the subject of the investigation are entitled to privacy. Revealing details of in-house investigations is not how well-run companies operate.

El_Duderino 09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121925041#Comment_121925041

How can you say the investigation was conducted by the book or innaccordance with best practice?

My understanding is that there isn't enough evidence to make any claims about the investigation, as far as I know, we don't even know the investigation question.

skipper_G

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121924650#Comment_121924650

You are confusing independent and transparent. An independent investigation can be conducted and details not shared with the general public. That's exactly what I would expect. No company is going to share details of internal disciplinary matters, except the outcome.

El_Duderino 09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121925107#Comment_121925107

Yeah and the claim that it's independent is meaningless without transparency to demonstrate it. Do we even know what the official investigation question was?

skipper_G

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121925141#Comment_121925141

Of course we don't. And nor should we, that is how internal disciplinary proceedings work. Just because it involves people who happen to be in the public eye it doesn't change the rules.

weisses

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121925141#Comment_121925141

No... The independent claim is because a barrister from outside the organization (a kings council in this case) was brought in to conduct the investigation, to hear both parties, look at evidence provided and make a ruling accordingly and an option to appeal the outcome, which she apparently did.

Ted222

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121925085#Comment_121925085

We know as much as it’s our business to know.

A complaint was made. An investigation was initiated. An external third party was brought in to conduct it. That’s best practice and is as much as any organisation can reasonably do. They’re precluded from being as transparent as others would like them to be.

And as for independence, what would this look like? What should the organisation do to ensure the independence of an investigation?

Additionally, it’s not unusual for a person whose complaint wasn’t upheld to be unhappy and it appears that the person has sought restitution on this occasion through other more public means.

This happens all the time. The only difference is that it’s happening in the full glare of public scrutiny.

The other teams calling for greater transparency and evidence of independence are quite obviously trying to stir the pot and destabilise a leading competitor. That’s the way of business.

But don’t fall for the ruse that they seek only to protect the integrity of the sport. If that was a concern, they wouldn’t be racing around Saudi Arabia - at night!

Burkie1203

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121924777#Comment_121924777

Merc are rocking the boat in a bid to lure Max away

devnull

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121926972#Comment_121926972

Pretty much all which has been going on in the last few weeks is showing an increasingly desperate Mercedes team know they cannot be competitive on the track, so they are doing the best they can to try and destabilise the team that is the furthest ahead of them to increase their chances whilst also hoping to unsettle a driver who they would like to sign in the nearest future.

The whole Susie Wolff thing I really think is an attempt to get some leverage on the Horner situation, they're probably hoping that if they make a big deal about that then the powers that be may do something more about Horner and Red Bull, it's quite transparent and has been from day one, since it's been Toto Wolff and Zak Brown who have been driving this more than anyone else.

As someone who used to like Mercedes as a team, all this has done for me is make me really not want them to win anytime soon, they are absolutely sore losers and nothing would make me smile more than to see them really struggle, but probably the more they struggle the more they will cry and bawl their eyes out and resort to increasingly desperate tactics to destabilise everyone else to cover their own shortcomings.

There has always been Politics in F1, but this is something more dirty than we've ever seen before.