2024 F1 General Discussion Thread

Burkie1203

Hamilton spouting sh1te about the Horner situation. "Speak up and you be sacked" even though she hasn't been sacked.

PsychoPete

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121929615#Comment_121929615

He always has some agenda trying to deflect away from his poor driving

dulpit

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121929615#Comment_121929615

She's been put on suspension. Whereas when there was an open investigation within red bull against the boss he stayed in his role. There's an obvious double standard at play.

mickdw

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121930184#Comment_121930184

Not really.

Horner was entitled to benefit of doubt.

An investigation took place. Horner was cleared.

She appears to have taken an alternative route, herself and her boyfriend jos releasing stuff to the whole paddock to cause maximum damage to horner. The suspension would to my mind be correct If my line of thinking is correct.

dulpit

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121930685#Comment_121930685

Doesn't she deserve the benefit of the doubt? Do you know she released those docs?

mickdw

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121932031#Comment_121932031

Not if she is known to be involved in an underhanded campaign causing damage to horner and the redbull business.

The horner investigation may have proven very clearly what actually happened and as such no benefit of doubt to talk about.

I don't know she released the docs but redbull very well might and again evidence of that act would be more than sufficient to suspend her.

The point is that IF redbull are happy in their findings re horner and re the underhand release of documents, there is no double standard, just correctly dealing with what is in front of them.

Captain_Crash

Couple of intricate differences between the two. RB themselves never believed Horner done anything wrong. They received an allegation which was investigated. Whereas with herself (can’t remember her name) RB believe she may have done something wrong so have suspended her with pay while it’s investigated. There is nothing unusual about that.

El_Duderino 09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121932104#Comment_121932104

Christ alive, "IF", is doing a lot of heavy lifting in that line of argument.

Truth is we don't know if Red Bull hired a barrister to reach a whitewash conclusion. We don't even know what question he was trying to answer.

Pretending to know what happened and what the investigation concluded based on what questions and what methodology, is pure bullshyte.

Be honest and say we have to got a clue because RB have decided not to tell anyone, anything about the investigation*

* Which is, coincidentally, completely consistent with a corporate cover-up. But we gafw Jo way if knowing if it was a whitewash or properly independent because they've chosen to show zero transparency.

mickdw

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121932280#Comment_121932280

We don't know however redbull know whats what at this stage.

We are outside looking in. They are making decisions on known situations so you may scoff at my comments but assuming it's a double standard is equally scoffable.

Widdensushi

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121932280#Comment_121932280

Presumably whoever did the investigation is staking their reputation and possible lawsuit if they were negligent, etc?

El_Duderino 09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121932289#Comment_121932289

Yeah, RB probably know what's what at this stage.

And yes, your assumption that its all legit is as scoffable as someone else's assumption that it's all a double standard. But like I keep saying, we have no way of knowing if it was a whitewash or not. Assuming it was completely legitimate takes a leap of faith based on bias because we simply don't have evidence.

iffandonlyif

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121932881#Comment_121932881

It doesn’t require bias to trust the investigation. It takes the rational assessment that if there is anything significant in the accusation against Horner, the context of Metoo and the huge attention paid to it would mean that Red Bull, the most brand-conscious of all the teams, would not have covered it up for fear of the inevitable backlash.

El_Duderino 09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121932978#Comment_121932978

If not on the evidence of the report, then on what basis do you default trust the investigation (the question on which it was based which you don't even know)?

You don't seem to show any scepticism of a huge, powerful, mega wealthy institution denying wrongdoing based on a completely blind investigation which they commissioned.

I'm being honest and acknowledging we don't know,because we can't know. You're blindly trusting them because the stakes are high.

jj880

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121932978#Comment_121932978

Just curious if this is a cover up by Red Bull how do you see them getting inevitable backlash?

iffandonlyif

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121933082#Comment_121933082

Come on, guys, use your brains. The whole cache of investigation documents was leaked to every journalist of note in F1.

jj880

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121933090#Comment_121933090

Red Bull have kept the terms of reference of their investigation private.

Hewitson is suspended pending an appeal.

My guess is they'll eventually pay her off to make it go away. A job well done for Red Bull and Horner. Everyone moves on.

Im curious as to how the backlash will be inevitable like say. As in how and when exactly you think it will happen?

Not trying to catch you out just curious.

El_Duderino 09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121933090#Comment_121933090

The whole thing? I knew about the WhatsApp messages, what else was leaked?

PsychoPete

Apparently Ricciardo has two races to turn the results around or he'll be replaced by Lawson according to the "nz herald"

jv2000

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121937468#Comment_121937468

Potentially some bias on the part of the NZ Herald but this does sound quite true to form for RB. It would not surprise me in the slightest, Tsunoda has wiped the floor with Ricciardo since he joined last season. I am a big Ricciardo fan but sometimes you just have to admit it is over. He will never drive in the RB beside Max and this is most likely his last season as a driver in F1 (unfortunately).

Frank Bullitt

Poor Ricciardo, there were real flashes last year of the old him, but this looks like the McLaren version.

El_Duderino 09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121937832#Comment_121937832

Yeah it's a really strange one. He was definitely a very good driver and now he isn't. We expect decline with age, but this doesn't have an obvious explanation. I feel sorry for him.

I wonder if he knows what's changed. Lost the hunger, got a fright, lost confidence fell out of the groove?

I'd be happy if he could find his top form again but I wouldn't blame RB for trying a young driver instead of him, brutal as it would be mid-season

Frank Bullitt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121938066#Comment_121938066

He does sound very prone to changes in how a car behaves and its characteristics as well. There were the flashes of him last year, and with this new car I think that feel has left him again.

It could well be a case of finding a set-up that works better for him, I do seem to recall him really advocating for a big change in that last year. So who knows, maybe he will do that again and get his mojo back.

I will say, at this rate it is more likely that he will lose this seat over getting one at Red Bull.

MadYaker

I think Fred Vasseur has scored a massive own goal by ditching Sainz for Hamilton.

Frank Bullitt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121938872#Comment_121938872

I tried to bring this up in another forum and I was just called a "hater" for saying a nearly 40 year old Hamilton is past his best years, and Sainz is probaly entering his.

It is a wild world out there.

recyclebin

Mercedes are only 4th or even 5th best team this season. Hamilton has already mentally checked out. I wouldn't be putting him in a retirement home just yet. I wouldn't rule out fireworks between himself and Leclerc next season. Leclerc has always been the favourite child at Ferrari over Sainz so it could get interesting next season trying not to favour either driver, as both will think they deserve to be number 1.

Sainz can really enjoy this season, and prove the doubters wrong. I just hope he doesn't do a Perez on it, and drop off in form as the season goes on. If he keeps going the way he is going then Sainz will have a choice of seat at every team except Ferrari and McLaren. The best seat for 2025 has to be in the Red Bull beside Max but 2026 brings high risk of shake up of the order with new power units.

Burkie1203

I think Red Bull will go after Sainz.

Frank Bullitt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121939002#Comment_121939002

Max and Carlos as a pairing (again) would be great. It would also be a nice bit of justice for Carlos to get into a team with that kind of performance.

mickdw

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121938872#Comment_121938872

Possibly. Certainly sainz was never slow so I don't see a big direct advantage with one driver over the other however Fred is building a team there and if signing Hamilton brings it all together in terms of being able to bring in the Engineering brains he wants, it will be a master stroke.

waynescales1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121938872#Comment_121938872

I think Ricciardo scored a massive own goal by leaving RB for Renault in 2018.

flazio

Practical question, if you are still short handing "Red Bull" as RB then how can we tell if you are talking about Red Bull or the team formerly known as Minardi?