The new recycling system

BoardsBottler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121725659#Comment_121725659

i want the bin filled so i can round the corner and get those juciey deposit redeems! FREE MONEY SITING THERE!

nice little earner right there!

BoardsBottler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121725676#Comment_121725676

the people they pay for marketting get to go home with money surely? and people they employ?

is there any way we can make a mockery or a joke of this scheme? or benefit off of it? can we do something to atleast get something back from it?

elperello

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121725659#Comment_121725659

It's not that hard to believe that they knew whether they had paid a deposit or not.

Possibly the difference between the bins didn't occur to them.

At the end of the day if people are throwing money away in bins we have a bigger problem than I thought.

bog master

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121725676#Comment_121725676

Repack-a non-profit. €3.5 million in staff costs of which I can find 5 high profile individuals.

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121725676#Comment_121725676

This is a company invented as a direct result of government direction, that only came into existence because of it and has a state mandated monopoly.

Not remotely the same thing.

Whats the incentive for the leadership of the company to running the business effiiciently v for their own benefit?

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121724556#Comment_121724556

As I said Return looks like a quango, acts like a quango, meets the above description to most ordinary people and therefore it is a quango. We judge people by what they do more than what they say. We judge organisations by how they act, rather than what they say. And all the evidence to date points to Return being the classic quango.

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121725676#Comment_121725676

Eh... do the staff in this 'not for profit quango', work for free out of the goodness of their hearts? Who pays their pension scheme, health insurance, company car etc etc. Who will fund the scheme that helps smaller shops purchase machines? Who pays for the emptying and cleaning, maintenance of these machines? Who is funding it? It can't possibly all come from the value of the materials, what happens if there is 100% return rates. Somebody is paying, those who don't return and all the public in time who will pay more for regular recycle collections.

bog master

The Minister:

“One of the big learnings that we took away from our examination of the Deposit Return Schemes in other countries was that everyone in the Deposit Return Scheme chain has to be paid for their work.

Except those consumers being inconvenienced.

"We know that retailers will have stock with no deposits on them, so there will be a transition period, starting on 1 February 2024, when retailers can stock both products on shelves, and at the end of the transition period no one in Ireland can stock a product without a deposit on it.

"The transition period timeline is being finalised and it will be announced in early January. The re-labelling work will begin in August 2023.”

Hmmm seems not a lot of re-labelling has been done since August.

“Another big learning related to how we pay for the scheme. Some consumers will throw cans away and not worry about retrieving the 15 cent deposit, and others will bring their cans or bottles back, so some of the deposits will go unclaimed. This will be used to pay for the scheme.

“In addition, the aluminium and plastic gathered in this scheme will have a very high value, so that will generate further monies which can be used to subsidise the scheme. Deposit Return Schemes were found to be very popular in the countries that we looked at, so I’m confident that once the scheme is up and running, it will prove popular with shoppers and will be well supported.”

No comment.

When the Deposit Return Scheme was launched on 28 November, the chairperson of Deposit Return Scheme Ireland, Tony Keohane, said that households needn't use the green bin for recycling 'in scope' plastic bottles and cans once the scheme is introduced in February 2024.

So can I get a rebate now that I don't need green bin anymore? Oh wait, what about paper and other items not deposit laden? Oh dear!

“When it comes to the targets for aluminium cans, we must have 50% of those recycled by 2025 and 60% by 2030. While these targets are mandatory, we don’t have to operate a Deposit Return Scheme in order to achieve them. However, we have opted to introduce it as we believe it is the best way for Ireland to achieve these important targets.”

So let's set up this quango and absolve the government of any responsibility if targets are not met.

ooter

Just back from the local lidl, returned 2 orange juice bottles and got the 50c deposit back, pretty straightforward.

You can clearly hear the bottles being crushed as soon as they go in to the RVM so why they have to be in good condition going in is beyond me, once the machine picks up the re-turn logo is should be fine.

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121726042#Comment_121726042

Its the barcode not the logo; and realistically once if can actually read the barcode it'll take them - they don't need to be pristine.

elperello

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121725924#Comment_121725924

Explain how you would be paying to run Return when you pay 15 cents deposit on a can and get it back when you return the can.

elperello

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121725879#Comment_121725879

The link in the post you quoted proves Return is not a quango yet you seem to get some comfort from referring to it as such.

bog master

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121726150#Comment_121726150

Interesting point in that if we reach or even unlikely 100% recycle rate, does this quango get wound up?

BoardsBottler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121726150#Comment_121726150

the can itself, the labor of seperation being taken out, and the manufacturers who's product you are buying, by not buying it they would not be in businuess. Manufacture paid return also.

BoardsBottler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121726175#Comment_121726175

the link he quoted also said "the aluminium and plastic gathered in this scheme will have a very high value, so that will generate further monies"

elperello

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121725815#Comment_121725815

The company owes it's existence to a requirement of legislation.

That is not unusual.

Can you imagine the confusion if Return was not a monopoly ?

If you can find a legal way for directors of a not for profit to draw dividends a career in accountancy awaits.

bren2001

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121726190#Comment_121726190

Who would collect and process the materials then? Private waste companies who will run it in a similar fashion but in a manner that maximises profits for them?

BoardsBottler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121726205#Comment_121726205

no dividents needed as they can just simply pay them self for being an employee.

surely they're not all volunteers doing this out of the good of their heart for mother nature, no?

elperello

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121726190#Comment_121726190

TBH I don't believe 100% will happen because life generally doesn't give you perfect results.

There are too many variables for it to be realistic.

Whatever the result I doubt that the not for profit company will be wound up for doing a good job.

If it all goes wrong then all bets are off.

BoardsBottler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121726219#Comment_121726219

thats the bin mens businuess and the governments problem. why should we be made to pay for it, while people who toss rubbish out a car window will still continue to do so? meanwhile the everyday joe who uses his green bin will get taxed if he continues to do so.

convenient for everyone btw

ceo says "people will take the cans thrown out of car windows to reclaim the deposits on them" but that only applies if can isnt crushed or squeezed first and then thrown out the window. its also making people do the governments job, cleaning, instead of tackling the issue themself

the free work angle is self entitled and insane. the 90% goal thing is their problem not ours, why are they forcibly making it our problem? shouldnt they like sweeten the deal?

apache

I looked at their website there and theres only one returnable machine in my area. Ridiculous as I don't drive.

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121726306#Comment_121726306

Map has had two updates of over 100 machines each so far. The only one I knew was missing is now there so maybe its complete, or more likely not.

Bugger all use in finding one if its not on the map of course.

bog master

Not a quango?

Our minister-

“When it comes to the targets for aluminium cans, we must have 50% of those recycled by 2025 and 60% by 2030. While these targets are mandatory, we don’t have to operate a Deposit Return Scheme in order to achieve them. However, we have opted to introduce it as we believe it is the best way for Ireland to achieve these important targets.”

So let us set up a new company but we don't have to. Quango in my book.

Genghis

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121726205#Comment_121726205

Point of order: dividends are not paid to directors. They are paid to shareholders.

Directors, managers and employees *should* be incentivised to perform, and should be at risk of replacement if not. These incentives may or may not be financial.

This is not mutually exclusive with a not for profit status.

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121726205#Comment_121726205

It was mandated into existence by legislation. It is not the usual basis for setting up a business. It was not a business spontaneously setup in response to government legislation, to fulfil a need in a marketplace that the legislation created. Its operation is specified by government legislation. No other company is allowed to operate in the same space. That is not usual.

Who suggested Re-turn should not be a monopoly? Where was that said on the thread?

They are a quango. They are a quasi-autonomous non governmental agency. It was introduced into existence by government mandate. It could not have come into existence without direct government direction.

Can you find a legal way to Re-turn to have come into existence without the government specifying every step of its creation? It would be illegal wouldn't it? Well? Is that usual?

bog master

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121726332#Comment_121726332

Well said. If our esteemed board of management of ReTurn incurs a huge operating loss, this being set up by legislation of the Dáil, what recourse does the average voter have?

elperello

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121726332#Comment_121726332

Point taken sloppy on my part.

Though there are no shareholders in a not for profit.

Therefore no scope for anyone to draw dividends

BoardsBottler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121726480#Comment_121726480

no need for dividends when they pay themselves with wages

elperello

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121726349#Comment_121726349

It's not usual but at the same time not unique.

Nobody did, I am saying it had to be a monopoly.

Genghis

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121726480#Comment_121726480

Yes, no dividends. But I am saying there are other incentives / disincentives

But they will have a plan, targets, etc and they will either end up with surpluses or deficits. Liabilities would be shared by members, surpluses would presumably reduce producer fees. So not without impact.

How well re-turn do could well determine everything from the scale of the staff Christmas party to how much they are allowed spend on marketing, to their influence on levies, to career opportunities beyond re-turn.

I will say this: they seem pretty paranoid about / focussed on deposit revenue, with their over-speccing, making sure deposits are collected even if they won't honour their return, and their complete avoidance of any investment capital or risk in setting up the scheme. I think there is some incentive / disincentive associated with their financial performance.