Increase in Anti-EV Media Articles

Red Silurian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122144911#Comment_122144911

So I can get a Tesla Model 3 for about 2k less than the cost of a Hyundai Tucson? Great to see the times changing

fatbhoy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122145037#Comment_122145037

Oh for heaven's sake, an EV with Li ion batteries produce runaway fires that last for days and can't be extinguished.

Red Silurian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122145052#Comment_122145052

An ambulance fire can literally kill somebody strapped to a bed in the back

prawnsambo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122145052#Comment_122145052

Days? 🤣

RoboRat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122145052#Comment_122145052

Yet we walk around with them in our pockets and think nothing of it… strange that.

yagan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122145056#Comment_122145056

A Russia tank with a Ukrainian grenade dropped through its hatch is a spectacular fireball too.

The rate of fire instances per ICE and per EV sold from a set starting date, say when the Nissan Note launched is more relevant for comparison.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122145170#Comment_122145170

What has the nissan note got to do with it?

prawnsambo

They've the figures in Sweden where they have over 600k EVs. ICE cars are 20 time more likely to go on fire.

The main issue with EV fires is how to extinguish them. The battery containment makes this extremely difficult as water can't get near the seat of the fire. Different methodologies have been devised. A fire blanket is one. (Anyone who loves Nissan Leafs look away now). 🤣

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n_JINtx08iA&t=0s&ab_channel=FireCloak

Or puncturing the battery pack from underneath and flooding it with water.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xaIAb3XgYVY&t=0s&ab_channel=RosenbauerAmerica

Red Silurian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122145170#Comment_122145170

Oh I see, the set of data doesn't suit the FUD narrative so let's change it. Howabout we narrow it a bit. In 2023 there was the Luton Airport car park fire and the Newbridge McDonalds fire both started by diesel cars. Freemantle Highway - still unsure if it was even a car that started it but we know it wasn't an EV so place in the "Maybe" pile perhaps?

Got any examples of EV fires in 2023?

yagan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122145215#Comment_122145215

I'll accept what ever the data clarifies. If say by the starting point I proffered of comparing data from the introduction of the first EV into a market, then if the rate of fires say ICE is higher than EV, or vice versa then fine. I don't feel I'm batting for a side.

I'm curious as to what data available tells us.

I'm not sure what the example of your multi car fire is supposed to argue, but I'd just like to know if there's any info on the rate of a single vehicle catching fire independently.

For comparison it's the rate and not the total of fires in each segment that matters.

Cyrus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122145052#Comment_122145052

when did this happen?

Slightly Kwackers

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122137078#Comment_122137078

I somehow have my doubts :-)

The interaction of drive/ charge mode and all the electronics control would be well beyond me. My last two cars owned by myself both had engine management problems, my Fiat being scrapped through it and my Ex company Focus failing a test up in NI as there was a warning lamp that was illuminated ever since the ECU was changed.

I don't think a turbo makes a car more complex, it rotates at a very high speed though and any lubrication problem is going to be pretty terminal. In the case of the Mazda's a new turbo worked for less than a week as the oil found the metal debris from the old one and carried it around the engine.

Gone are the days when electronics was an assembly of multiple source components of known, standard parameters. Even the simplest motor drives use "custom parts" these days, I daresay in the case of an EV, the tacho and temperature sensors are part of the drive and integrated within the motors.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122145456#Comment_122145456

A car without a turbo vs one with a turbo has less parts "everything else being equal". So you don't have to fix a turbo and it's ancillaries if it breaks.

Considering turbo problem are common.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122145309#Comment_122145309

Hence the %.

maidhc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122145451#Comment_122145451

Eqe getting “extinguished” from the Fremantle Highway.

Cyrus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122146430#Comment_122146430

how long did the runaway fire last for, in days?

https://electrek.co/2023/07/26/surprise-media-is-misreporting-the-source-of-a-dutch-cargo-ship-fire/

Peter Berdowski, the chief of the salvage company Royal Boskalis Westminster NV, revealed that between 900 and 1,000 cars, including the EVs, were, in fact, in good condition after the incident. 

The fire’s origin was eventually traced to the eighth deck of the 12-deck ship, far from the electric vehicle storage areas.

Gerrymandering reborn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122144777#Comment_122144777

"If your life or driving doesn't suit an EV don't buy one. I'm not buying a 2 seater convertible for the same reason. I'm also not buying diesel for same reason."

This is a very good point. EV suits a lot of people and are an excellent mode of transport. But at the same time, we need to understand the EV don't suit a lot of people either and won't suit them. The dismal EV sales figures clearly portray this. While EV's definitely have a big role in the future, the ICE which is tried, tested and trusted won't be going away. Even the EU has hinted at this.

If we want to reduce our emissions, perhaps it's time we start exploring other areas apart from motor vehicles.

maidhc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122146449#Comment_122146449

I know you do like being a bit prim and passive aggressive and it does get reactions, but presumably the ev was dunked into a solution so it would not stay on fire for days.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122146514#Comment_122146514

That it won't suit everyone does not a valid excuse the utter collapse of the market here.

The govt has let all the fud go unchecked. They should have had a counter media campaign, and not reduced incentives. They could have got ahead of the industry and insisted on SOH for batteries etc. Build consumer confidence etc.

Giving up on emissions is not the way forward..

fatbhoy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122145451#Comment_122145451

The Rimac from The Grand Tour that Richard Hammond crashed. 5 days. Next question…

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122147129#Comment_122147129

What I find interesting about that story is the only source mentioned of the "5 days" comment is credited to James May. No idea if thats correct. It just seems to have been repeated everywhere. But yet there are news articles with photos, of it the following day and subsequent already burnt out. Days earlier.

I did find a comment from the recovery team, that said they hosed down for 8 hrs to cool it down before removing it, and they weren't in any rush because no-one was in any danger from it and it was still hot. It was special Prototype with the battery boosted.

Its not the first car thats been burnt on that show.

https://www.roadandtrack.com/car-culture/entertainment/a16569969/top-gear-burned-an-alpine-a110-to-the-ground-during-filming/

Cyrus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122146647#Comment_122146647

no need to get prissy maidhc you have a terrible habit of forgetting what you responded to. I asked another poster when an ev was burning for days, you decided you'd answer but look a bit silly now because obviously that car wasn't on fire for days nor was the fire on that ship caused by evs despite the initial reports. You seem intent on continuing the ev fire FUD tho.

Cyrus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122147129#Comment_122147129

and when did it actually happen, answer is never, next false statement…

maidhc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122147431#Comment_122147431

You are an ill tempered soul god love you.

i don’t own a car without a traction battery and as you point out hybrids are probably more likely than either bevs and pure ice cars to go on fire given the presence of voltage and hydrocarbons. Big deal.

I think the main issue with bevs right now is they are a solution desperately searching for a problem and they are still an immature technology. There mk1 Prius was dire compared to a modern hybrid. With EVs the same is true and even though Tesla appear to have given up and the European manufacturers are unable, the Chinese will probably lead with new developments.

to be fair to you though, if the early adopters didn’t adopt it would be left to the rest of us.

Cyrus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122147546#Comment_122147546

not at all but its the standard preserve of your kind to resport to ad hominen type posts when your trolling gets exposed. You have been presented with plenty of evidence to refute your hunch and the FUD you are intent on spreading.

By all means carry on but dont expect to post nonsense unchallenged.

maidhc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122147959#Comment_122147959

I’m probably not going to get into a quarrel with as quarrelsome a type as yourself, but I think I’m pretty fair and balanced. Indeed I’m the only person in many posts to actually put up a pro Bev article and I have said at every hands turn the are probably the future of motoring; I just don’t get the refusal of some to accept there are currently some shortcomings and the reference to certain articles that point out these shortcomings as anti ev. It’s truly mad hatter stuff.

Even if the ev industry collapses and we all are “forced” to drive v8s, is that a bad thing for self described motor enthusiasts??? Worth getting all high about? I think not.

good day to you sir!

prawnsambo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122148098#Comment_122148098

the reference to certain articles that point out these shortcomings as anti ev. It’s truly mad hatter stuff.

Is it though?

The articles that have been linked here have been thoroughly debunked, you seem to have chosen to ignore that. Like the one about car parks collapsing under the weight of all the EVs. That was arrant nonsense, made worse by the comparison with 1970s cars (which yes, may be appropriate for car parks built in that era - but they are few and far between) when modern cars of all types are at least twice as heavy as those from that era. To pick out 2.5% of the fleet as a danger to those car parks is "mad hatter stuff".

Then we have the fires. Lots of data out there from countries where there is a large uptake of EVs (Sweden was quoted) that prove EVs are 20 times less likely than ICEs to go on fire. This is from data, not some reactionary FUD based on nothing more than some headline incidents where multiple similar incidents involving ICE cars are largely ignored.

Cyrus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122148098#Comment_122148098

Well if as impartial a judge as yourself thinks your own posts are fair and balanced how could one argue, interesting that you perceive someone who calls out nonsense as quarrelsome, time for some self reflection on your side.

i am more than happy to discuss legitimate short comings but this fire nonsense isnt that.

Good day indeed.

crl84

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122147129#Comment_122147129

You do realise that the Grand Tour/Top Gear is fake as f—k, right? Literally been proven many times to have faked things and maniuplated situations, and outright lied to tell a better story. It's a scripted entertainment show. It is not factual.

I've no idea about a Rimac/batteries, but using that as "proof" is moronic.

RoboRat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122146690#Comment_122146690

Absolutely agree. The reason EV sales are low is mainly because of FUD.

To say that an EV won't suit the majority of this small island is absurd. You can travel from Malin head to Mizen head with one charging stop in most new EVs with a reasonable battery. The average annual mileage in Ireland is 17,000km or 327km per week. Any reasonably sized EV would do that on a single charge. 12% of dwellings in Ireland are apartments as per the 2016 census figures. Even if 20% were apartments now, that would mean 80% are houses. I would guess that at least 50% of those have a driveway.

The cost would have been a factor in the past, but EVs are more affordable than ever now. My LR MG4 cost less than an entry-level Golf which would be a similar size. There are used EVs at great prices too. The price of fuel is rising and an EV will cost a fraction to power. Then you consider the lower tax and lower maintenance costs. I got my insurance for half the price of what I was paying.

FUD is deterring a lot of people, and it seems the more people embrace EVs, the more FUD appears. This isn't coincidental. I have worked in marketing for over 20 years and know how negative PR works. There are a lot of very rich businesses with a lot to lose from EV adoption. Many people who spread the FUD haven't a clue about EVs. They are parroting what they see and they're ensuring that Big Oil stays lucrative.

I was apprehensive when I was buying my first EV as I was influenced by the narrative that is out there. Thankfully, I had worked with an EV enthusiast and he was more than happy to dispel the myths. I have changed quite a few people's minds since I got my EV (the latest 2 days ago), just by talking to them and countering the FUD. This goes to show that FUD is the problem - if it wasn't then I shouldn't be able to change their minds as they would have a valid reason for not considering an EV.