Will the greens be in government after the next general election?

kabakuyu

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121401894#Comment_121401894

I do'nt answer your questions.I do support law and order and do not condone any acts of violence or vandalism .You keep on supporting the greens if you want, but they are heading for extinction hopefully.

TaurenDruid

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121423828#Comment_121423828

And end up with literally more of the same? Yeah, that's logical.

But why are you saying the SDs won't go into government? Every party has red-line issues. The SDs have set theirs out. They don't seem unreasonable. If the numbers work, and their issues are agreed to - they'll go into government. Why wouldn't they? The only question is numbers - will they be needed by SF? If the option is SF-FF and a large majority, or SF-SD-Lab-GP with maybe some independents, which would Mary-Lou go for.

As to red line issues and other parties: Labour and the Greens - we know they will go into government, if asked. Without much, if any, pre-conditions, judging by the last couple of governments. Aontú's pre-conditions presumably revolve around abortion. Can't see any other party agreeing to roll back on abolishing the 8th. PBP-Solidarity? An unknown quantity, no idea what they'd do if offered the opportunity. Personally, after 100 years of centre-right governments (us and Switzerland are the only two countries in Europe where that has happened!), I'd love to see a centre-left government in power for a couple of terms.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121424440#Comment_121424440

I didn't say that they wouldn't go in to government, you did.

 I really don't see them going into coalition with either party in the next few years, either

Wanderer78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121424023#Comment_121424023

greens are a pawn now for the 3 main parties, it ll be more or less up to them if they ll play a part in forming the next government, in regards extinction, dream on, they ll still exist post ge.....

TaurenDruid

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121424494#Comment_121424494

That's going into coalition with FF or FG. FG aren't going to be in the next government, though, are they? And if FF are, it'll be as the smaller party to SF. In which case, who knows. What you won't see is a FG-SD or FF-SD government.

Wanderer78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121424600#Comment_121424600

...we still could be dealing with another ffg government, theres no guarantees sff will be able to do a deal, so.....

TaurenDruid

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121424609#Comment_121424609

Gods help us...

Wanderer78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121424804#Comment_121424804

....its our current reality, the current most likely outcomes are sff, ffg, or hung, all probably with equal odds....

Clo-Clo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121424804#Comment_121424804

Why? for all the moaning about the current government the majority of people in Ireland have a very good life, have a good job etc.

“The Grass Is Greener on the Other Side" comes to mind when I see people complaining.

Wanderer78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121425055#Comment_121425055

...theres clear divisions occurring, continue on this path, and you ll end up in a similar situation such as the uk and the us, so......

***mods, can you please remove the spam block on my account, thank you

Flaneur OBrien

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121425055#Comment_121425055

A lot of people may have a good life, but we are facing record numbers of homelessness and homeless families. Health system is a shambles.

If we could think of other people for a change, that would be great.

Clo-Clo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121425184#Comment_121425184

i am, I’m thinking of the majority of people.

What’s the alternative? A SF led government to drive the entire country into oblivion?

Ireland has issues like every other country, plan in place to try resolve them and if they are resolved then im sure others will pop up. That’s life.

putting the country back decades and hurt everyone is not the answer. so if you could think of other people that would be fantastic.

Wanderer78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121425404#Comment_121425404

so you ve asked all citizens, all responded in truth, and then came to this conclusion!

...things would probably change, if things stay the same, makes sense i guess!

...we ve no clue what would happen with a sf lead government, and the fact, theyd have to form it with ff, and others, i some how dont think it would lead to armageddon.....in fact, i suspect change would more than likely be extremely slow, with things continuing to decline for some time, particularly for the first couple of years, so, please stop catastrophising.....

...once again, the most likely outcomes are ffg, sff, or hung, so get ready for a possible sff government, if not, you re gonna be very disappointed, maybe even upset!

TaurenDruid

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121425055#Comment_121425055

The majority of people in Ireland have a very good life? What are you basing that on?

I mean, sure, I have a very good life, I guess. I'm in the final decade of my working life and finally on a decent salary, I only have to commute a couple of days a week, I have a home.

My kids, though? Emigration, and another one likely to do the same after college. No future here for them. At most, they could save, and maybe buy a shoebox apartment on a 30-year mortgage - if they buy one with someone else. If they can find one that's actually for sale and not built rental only. Thanks to FFGs policies, that encourage this.

It's the same with loads of my contemporaries, too. We're doing fine, our kids are fucked. Either emigrated, emigrating, or still living at home with their parents in their mid to late 20s, even into their 30s. The estate I live in used to have maybe one car outside each house. Now it's 3, 4, and 5 cars outside each, because the adult kids have all moved back home, or never left.

Literally every month for the past few months, there's a headline "New record in number of homeless". Over 10,000 now.

Ever needed to avail of the public health system here? It's chaos. Waiting lists of years. Even for private, you can still be waiting months.

Are those people really having a good life?

But all you're doing is reading and repeating the FG scaremongering, doing the pearl clutching about SF getting into power. They literally can't be any worse than the current lot! Really! Again - one of them bankrupted the country twice in living memory. The other is full neo-liberal - cut taxes, privatise everything. Look at SFs policies - they're not actually stupid, they know damn well they need FDI and a strong economy. They're not going to risk either.

Clo-Clo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121426667#Comment_121426667

70% of people in Ireland own a house. In regards to wages I was a lot better off in Celtic Tiger era.

Emigration? well first off I do recommend everyone to travel once they finish college. You get a lot better view of the World when you travel and Im not talking about two weeks in Spain.

The job opportunities in Ireland are incredible. I also had those chance but look at my parents, both are Irish but met overseas after moving from Ireland at 16. Both of them their entire families moved out of Ireland very young, on my father side any boy was 16 or before to leave. No option. He still laughs at the innocence of them sending envelopes stuffed with cash home to keep their parents going.

First time buyers is running at 60% of houses sold. Thats from 2023. "shoebox apartment" well now that's just nonsense. In reality Ireland hasn't enough stock of apartments, we would be in a lot better position if we started with large scale apartment blocks to meet growing population.

Homelessness is an issue, but also a number of people who sit on the list because they want a 3 bed house in the exact location. If they don't get it they just wait.

Trying to say Ireland and the majority of people are not in a good position is totally incorrect.

I have read all SF policies, I have read their alternatives budgets. I think the best example of Sinn Fein was the "we will tax everyone more over 140k wages", then a few months later "Oh we will tax everyone more over 100k". That a 28% error. I would suggest I read more than most SF supporters who base their opinion on what they seen on X

I don't support FG by the way but I do read their policies. Have you read the FG one because I don't see anything about privitise?

Also in terms of the Greens, which is what this thread is about. The main gripe about the Green Party is renewables. If you read the Sinn Fein alternative budget, which is the most up to date document, They want to speed up the process of investing in wind and solar. Something which I pointed out to a few SF supporters and they knew nothing about.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121426667#Comment_121426667

My kids, though? Emigration, and another one likely to do the same after college. No future here for them. At most, they could save, and maybe buy a shoebox apartment on a 30-year mortgage - if they buy one with someone else. If they can find one that's actually for sale and not built rental only. Thanks to FFGs policies, that encourage this.

I trust they're not emigrating to the UK, Australia or the Netherlands? Or any of the other myriad countries with housing problems as large as our own? They are not unique to Ireland and it is not the result of some unique policies of FF/FG/GP.

Nor am I saying they are not real problems. But I would argue (as I always do) the problem is every bit as much the fault of the 70% of the country that are homeowners who are not interested in any development that so much as mildly threatens the price of their own home or convenience of their lives.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121427081#Comment_121427081

If you read the Sinn Fein alternative budget, which is the most up to date document, They want to speed up the process of investing in wind and solar. Something which I pointed out to a few SF supporters and they knew nothing about.

There will obviously be a degree of variation in it, but people better get used to the idea that all parties are going to follow broadly the same pattern when it comes to energy investments, active transport policies and public transport investment. IF you want to get rid of the Greens cause you hate cycle lanes then you are in for a rude awakening.

Clo-Clo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121427323#Comment_121427323

This is a point I made on the Green Agenda thread and was told I was wrong.

As you say, in reality dumping the Green Party because they are seen to push renewable/cycle lane etc will end up with another party who will follow the exact same trajectory. Then the question is who do they blame? or as seen before they suddenly agree with the policy because another partner pushs it

You find the most vocal against the Green Party is SF supporters, who seem to be totally unaware that SF will follow what the green party are doing.

TaurenDruid

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121427081#Comment_121427081

70% of people in Ireland own a house.

Yeah, but no. About 36% of people in Ireland own a house. The rest are paying a mortgage, or renting. Or are homeless.

Emigration? well first off I do recommend everyone to travel once they finish college.

There's a difference between choosing to emigrate, and being forced to emigrate. Not everyone has a choice, if they want a future.

"shoebox apartment" well now that's just nonsense.

WTF is "nonsense"?! Seriously? Have you actually been in any of the new developments, built in the last few years? 45sq.m. for a one-bed apartment? I've stayed in bigger hotel rooms, and they weren't 5-star!

In reality Ireland hasn't enough stock of apartments, we would be in a lot better position if we started with large scale apartment blocks to meet growing population.

Yes, absolutely! Unfortunately, though, the ones that are being built are usually the aforementioned shoeboxes, and what's more, most are now build-to-rent. You're never going to have the opportunity to own your own place.

Homelessness is an issue, but also a number of people who sit on the list because they want a 3 bed house in the exact location. If they don't get it they just wait.

JFC, talk about victim blaming! Believe me, nobody is sitting in a hotel room they have to vacate during the day, with their kids, because they want a 3-bed house next to their ma. Refuse an offer, and you can be de-prioritised, or have points reduced, or the council can remove you from their list.

Trying to say Ireland and the majority of people are not in a good position is totally incorrect.

Which isn't what I said. I said there are people who are very comfortable, and there are people - often the kids and family of those who are very comfortable - who just aren't. If you only care about yourself, and you're comfortable, then sure - Ireland is great!

Also in terms of the Greens, which is what this thread is about. The main gripe about the Green Party is renewables. If you read the Sinn Fein alternative budget, which is the most up to date document, They want to speed up the process of investing in wind and solar. Something which I pointed out to a few SF supporters and they knew nothing about.

Any party that doesn't want to vastly increase renewables is pretty f'n short-sighted, in my opinion, and won't be getting my vote. Problem with the Greens is they're a one-trick pony, didn't bargain hard enough (and their sustainability policies are mediocre at best), and they get used as the whipping boys by FFG. Any party going into government doesn't have a choice now about reducing emissions.

Clo-Clo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121428321#Comment_121428321

I don't get the point about a mortgage.

Very few people are been forced to emigrate.

As I said it is mostly houses built in Ireland so the shoe box apartments, yes some but very few. So yes nonsense.

Nobody is victim blaming. Not me anyway. Just stating what is going on. Unless you have the ability to build houses on top of existing houses you will have issues with housing as people wait to get the area they want.

The doom and gloom doesn't work with me. As I said at the start Ireland have issues, but so does every country in the World. Plans in place which hopefully will fix and then we will have another problem in another area.

In terms of Green Party, what do you think a small partner in government can do? saying the Green is a one trick pony suggests you have read none of their policies.

You can reduce emissions in multiple different ways, the majority of Sinn Fein supporters complain about the green Party and how they are going about reducing, problem is Sinn Fein have absolutely no alternatives. So why complain about the Green Party doing it and then praise Sinn Fein?

Brussels Sprout

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121424935#Comment_121424935

No way would hung be equal odds. It's a complete and utter long shot. If there is one thing that I have learned from the past two government formations its that the absolute last thing that any politician or political party wants after a general election is another general election. They will go to great lengths to avoid that outcome.

Fianna Fail in particular have shown themselves to be extremely pliable in this regards. They supported the minority FG-led government in 2016 and they crossed the Rubicon entirely in 2020 by entering coalition with them. If push comes to shove I think they can work something out with SF. Alternatively if themselves and FG do better than expected they might try to cobble together some kind of unstable patchwork coalition or minority government propped up by a lot of independents - anything basically to avoid going back to the polls

TaurenDruid

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121428360#Comment_121428360

I don't get the point about a mortgage.

You're claiming 70% of people in Ireland own a house. You're wrong.

Very few people are been forced to emigrate.

That's a nice opinion, but you're wrong. Over 64,000 people departed the State in the 12 months to April 2023, compared with 56,100 in the same period of 2022. This was one of the highest figures of recent years. That's the CSO's figures, not mine. Now sure, some of those are people travelling, "on a gap year", people who want to make a new life for themselves somewhere else and always did. But a huge percentage of those are people who don't see any other option but to leave Ireland. I know loads of kids' peers in that situation. I'm amazed you appear to know none.

When a one-bedroom apartment in the Dublin outer suburbs costs a minimum of €1750 (Dublin 18), €1650 (Dublin 22), or €1,800 (Dublin 13) - and there are literally only a handful available! - then their "choice" is live at home with mam and dad; or emigrate. Because there are very few graduates earning enough to be able to pay that in rent.

As I said it is mostly houses built in Ireland so the shoe box apartments, yes some but very few. So yes nonsense.

Then you're talking through your arse:

"Apartments accounted for 58% of all dwelling units approved, while housing units made up the remaining 42% [countrywide]. Across the four local authorities of Dublin, planning permission was granted for 3,351 apartments in Q2 2023, accounting for two-thirds of all apartments granted planning permission in the state between April and June of this year. More than one in five (21%) of all dwelling units granted planning permission in the state in Q2 2023 were in the Dun Laoghaire-Rathdown County Council local authority area, with 1,747 apartment units and 93 houses."

Again, that's the CSO's figures, not mine. 1747:93 is some ratio. But sure, nonsense.

Nobody is victim blaming. Not me anyway. Just stating what is going on. Unless you have the ability to build houses on top of existing houses you will have issues with housing as people wait to get the area they want.

Except the vast majority of people offered a dwelling take it up, despite your opinion.

You can reduce emissions in multiple different ways, the majority of Sinn Fein supporters complain about the green Party and how they are going about reducing, problem is Sinn Fein have absolutely no alternatives. So why complain about the Green Party doing it and then praise Sinn Fein?

I'm not praising SF - though they've some excellent spokespeople, they're far from perfect. And I've not seen their supporters complaining about emissions reductions. Not saying it didn't happen, I've just not seen it. I've mostly seen complaints from the IFA (who seem to forget they also represent tillage farmers), who would be much more inclined to support FF and FG.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121428653#Comment_121428653

I do think the context of the previous government forming period needs to be taken into account. A further election was essentially impossible due to Covid.

TaurenDruid

The EPA says Ireland isn't recycling enough. No ****! Eamonn Ryan's response? "We'll make plans!" Aye, plans. We need more plans. That's what'll get our recycling up. 🙄 Actions? Nah, who needs legislation, statutory instruments, instructions to all public bodies and local authorities...

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121429501#Comment_121429501

There's a major change coming in in ~10 weeks that should bring the rate for plastic and aluminium up significantly.

Other changes are vastly harder. Except maybe adding glass to the re-turn system, but it already has a high rate.

Clo-Clo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121429049#Comment_121429049

If you want to claim people don't own a house because they have a mortgage well that's your choice.

Good to see more apartments, we need lots of quality apartments for the growing population, that's planning you provided not actual houses built. If you look back over the years the majority has been houses. See below.

Maybe you could tell us how many are these shoe box that are built? because the info I found said Ireland is typically 11%-19% bigger than Europe. So to help can you point to all these 45m2 apartments?

In terms of graduates, well it depends on what job to do but it clear plenty are because if they didn't then we would have a major issue with employment. Yes we lack some people in some jobs but nothing major yet.

Sinn Fein and excellent spokespeople, who are these? Mary Lou? and?

In reality as I said Ireland is a great country to live in. We always have people who will moan but a lot of the time, not saying this is the case with you, they have never lived outside Ireland so its a case of "grass is greener".

• There were 29,851 new dwelling completions in the whole of 2022, an increase of 45.2% from 2021 and 41.3% up from 2019, pre-pandemic. 
• In October, November, and December (Q4) 2022 there were 9,148 completions, a rise of 31.4% from Q4 2021.
• The number of apartments completed in 2022 was 9,166, up 78.7% from 2021.

TaurenDruid

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121429817#Comment_121429817

Sinn Fein and excellent spokespeople, who are these? Mary Lou? and?

Eoin O'Broin, David Cullinane, and Pearse Doherty all seem well on top of their briefs. Which of the FG/FF/GP ministers do you think are actually doing a good job?

In reality as I said Ireland is a great country to live in.

Absolutely, it is. For me, most of my friends, and probably well more than half of my generation.

For our kids, though? The ones just starting out? The teachers and nurses - graduates, like - who literally can't afford to live in Dublin? The office workers with a two hour commute - each way? The people still living with mam and dad (or if they're lucky, a seomra in the garden), cos they can't afford anything else? The 13,000 homeless?

Not so much.

So maybe look beyond your own nose once in a while.

There were 29,851 new dwelling completions in the whole of 2022, an increase of 45.2% from 2021 and 41.3% up from 2019, pre-pandemic. 

In October, November, and December (Q4) 2022 there were 9,148 completions, a rise of 31.4% from Q4 2021.

The number of apartments completed in 2022 was 9,166, up 78.7% from 2021.

And? There'd be the 45sq m apartments you deny exist. Have a look at daft.ie for any suburb of Dublin, select 'Rental', sort cheapest to dearest. Have a look at the photos. (Select 1 bed or you'll only get studio apartments.)

Those numbers you quote? How many are student accommodation? How many build to rent, that you can never own? All of the new apartments going up around my way just build to rent. (But hey, I guess if they're only young people who'll only be there for a few years, they won't need creches, or schools, or GP clinics...)

Oh, and the bad news:

"Tánaiste says 40,000 new homes needed every year due to population growth

His comments come after unpublished research by the Housing Commission said Ireland may need up to 62,000 homes built per year until 2050 to meet demand – almost double the annual target in the Government’s masterplan for this decade.

The research, which was shared with Minister for Housing Darragh O’Brien in November last year, indicates that Ireland requires between 42,000 and 62,000 new homes every year.

However, under Mr O’Brien’s Housing for All strategy, 33,000 is the average annual target in the period to 2030."

So yeah, FFG have failed. By their own admission.

But yeah, I'm all right, Jack...

Clo-Clo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121432327#Comment_121432327

Eoin has failed miserably a few times now once he isn't shouting from behind Mary Lou in the Dail or reading from a sheet of paper. Cullinane I haven't seen much of so can't comment

Pearse is just the SF version of Richard Boyd Barrett, the irate TD got old after the first 6 months. He was irate the other day because he dropped one of his sweets.

To make this easier, you can agree that majority of dwelling built so far are houses, the ones that are apartments and sold to people are bigger than 45sqm? The majority of these properties are been sold to home owners.

You switched now to rentals instead of the discussion was on new builds.

The childish "I'm alright Jack" which seems to be commonly used by Sinn Fein supporters has no place in this discussion. If you want to carry on with that then best of luck to you.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121432378#Comment_121432378

How they've wielded so much power

What "so much power" ?