My loneliness is killing me

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122573316#Comment_122573316

I think that that's the point though. Boards.ie is not really social media since, well, it's anonymous and a bit too primitive to be using algorithms to feed people tailored content the same way Instagram and YouTube do. It's a bit like abuser behaviour where the last thing YouTube wants you to do is to switch off so it keeps spamming you with tailored links.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122573233#Comment_122573233

Some of that is true but there is still a lot of blaming society, does anyone reflect on the fact that a large number of Irish people have friends, how can that be if Irish society is so awful?

Undiagnosed social anxiety disorders?

extra-ordinary_

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122572851#Comment_122572851

UK looks the loneliest on that map.

magicbastarder

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122573189#Comment_122573189

i work a lot with germans. there's truth in the stereotype that they're less nosey than the irish.

yagan

Anyway as western societies age what we look at as pitiful will become a norm in time.

Almost 40,000 people died alone in their homes in Japan during the first half of 2024, a report by the country’s police shows.

Of that number, nearly 4,000 people were discovered more than a month after they died, and 130 bodies went unmissed for a year before they were found, according to the National Police Agency.

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cwyx6wwp5d5o

It is interesting that from that infographic posted that Spain has a low level of loneliness as it also has one of the highest global rates of apartment living. I'd imagine it's easier to remain both independent in old age and sociable when you're surrounded by people in the same context.

I can already see the isolation problems in the car dependent hinterlands stack up, there simply won't possibly be enough home help support to keep old people living alone in one off housing in the countryside. My granny lived alone with no running water up til the 1990s, but she had no shortage of relatives living nearby to drop in a pail of water everyday from a nearby well. With smaller families half the size they were in the 60/70s the chances of such support are greatly diminished.

Ezeoul

Saw this on RTÉ Just in the last few days...

https://www.rte.ie/news/2024/0828/1467000-loneliness-tilda/

This is an Irish study.

looksee

The people on this thread who are saying that 'people' are not friendly/willing to be sociable are those 'people' to someone else.

JupiterKid

Not at all surprised at the findings of this study. If anything, I think the extent of loneliness is under-estimated/reported.

We are living in an epidemic of deep loneliness in the West. The decline of family, decline of community and other connections and supports is taking a massive toll on people's mental health and well-being and given the current trend towards the atomisation of society, it is only going to get worse.

There are plenty of posters here on boards.ie who are deeply lonely and very unhappy. But sure if the economy is doing great, to our arrogant and deeply out of touch government, then everything is hunky dory...

Sunny Disposition

Less than 20 years ago pubs were doing very well, they were very busy all weekend and a few week nights.
Of course there were serious issues with the amount of alcohol consumption, and in a sense it is very good that the level of drinking dropped.
But the problem is that people have not replaced the socialising they did in pubs. The easing of access to the internet had the unforeseen consequence of significantly reducing peoples time spent socialising.
There is a huge level of isolation now and I wonder do a lot of young people not even realise there’s more to life.

I find people in their 40s or older are only itching for reasons to come together and do respond if given a chance.

It’s harder for younger ones who never spent much time hanging out as teens or in their twenties.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122572851#Comment_122572851

No man is an Ireland?

How is society or others people suppose to fix this for individuals.

I noticed there was no direct link to that map but the original provides lots of answers to your questions.

https://joint-research-centre.ec.europa.eu/scientific-activities-z/survey-methods-and-analysis-centre-smac/loneliness/loneliness-prevalence-eu_en

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122574059#Comment_122574059

I grew up like most Irish people where there was an expectation to care for others, especially those within your own family. I had two uncles on both sides who were of the lonely bachelor category and I had formed a really good bond with both since I was young. I went into social care in my twenties and probably because of my relationship with them had a particular inclination to caring for the more vulnerable in our society.

No one else in my family bothered with them and to some extent they were something to be disregarded due to their eccentricity (they were both most likely somewhere on the autistic spectrum). I also tended to befriend people who would have fallen into similar categories in workplaces or educational situations, the ones who fall outside the norm.

I can honestly say I am broken for it. When the first uncle died, I was accused of only caring for him for what I might inherit (he was practically destitute) and the others, one who formed an emotional attachment and became difficult to deal with I was accused of being nothing less than his prostitute. (because clearly no one would go near him unless they were being paid).

Yep, Ireland is not a place to be lonely. I legit couldn't get a job to be paid to do any of the above but I would in future leave the caring to the professionals.

Woodcutting

Of course you have several so called charity ceos with cushy jobs out of loneliness. Leeches

The_Kew_Tour

Another Irish bashing thread.

I bet same people who complain about the "welcome" probably don't give two hoots outside themselves.

Everyone has their own problems.

BTW it actually scares when when I think about being alone myself. Could happen to me as much as anyone. My parnter joined Alone and found the experience rewarding but also sad that many elderly have nobody. That is awful think about. I do think we need it needs be taken more serious but blaming everything on locals is bit harsh.

yagan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122583933#Comment_122583933

As sad as it is it's a mathematical certainty that reported loneliness will rise in Ireland.

A quick glance at our demographic pyramid shows that bulge in the 40/50s that will be losing their ability to drive and their independence and there simply will not be enough community carers to meet demand.

Downsizing to non car dependent living will be essential if you want to prolong your independence and quality of life.

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122583933#Comment_122583933

Comes across as a lazy attempt to shut down discussion, honestly. It's an Irish website with an older audience than most with an almost exclusively Irish userbase.

eightieschewbaccy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122573230#Comment_122573230

Yep, I'm similar to yourself in the sense I'm introverted but post COVID and reintegrating in the world was challenging. I work from home and like to do so, I work a lot with specific people and see them every few months but we chat during work which is good. But things like friendships in your thirties is pretty difficult. But I've got a running club that I'm part of which is good for me plus I've gotten friendly with neighbours. So in many respects, I've actually managed to develop a new kind of network of social connections post COVID. But it's very difficult to do, particularly if you like solitude and don't recognize when it can be somewhat detrimental.

In relation to that third place concept, I actually think plenty of neurodiverse people do actually manage to find it if they're into board games etc. That's always struck me as pretty sociable.

Geuze

https://marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2024/09/ireland-fact-of-the-day-6.html

Ireland ranks as the loneliest country in Europe, with almost a fifth of people lonely most or all of the time and nearly two-thirds of people suffer from anxiety or depression, according to EU data. One in seven children live in homes below the poverty line, defined as 60 per cent of the median disposable household income.

Here is more from the FT, with much of the piece about how Ireland should spend its budget surplus.

Does anybody have a link to the EU data?

PressRun

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121383565#Comment_121383565

Not to mention how nasty they can be about their pals' wives or girlfriends. Plenty of them would rather their male friends be miserable so long as they stayed free and available for the session every other weekend, instead of letting them develop a meaningful relationship with someone they can share their life with and be supported by. I know several men who let their mates talk them out of a good thing with a woman because the friends wanted to keep the good times going and pretty much all of them regretted it later. I think some men can be really influenced by the opinions of their friends in a way that negatively impacts their own happiness.

The fact is, most people might have a few very close friends and then their partner, who is usually truly the best friend that they can rely on and trust for support and companionship. I think this is generally the norm most places you go, not just Ireland.

thereiver

i only go to a pub to meet a friend ,no harm looking at a phone for a few minutes .i think alot of people buy cans or smoke weed at home , a pint is now over 5 euro.gen z has netflix and chill going to a pub is just another option or past time.maybe the pandemic has made people wary of going to crowded places .

maybe people have virtual friends whom they post messages to and follow /like posts on social media .its easier to make friends at school college than starting to look for friends as an adult

cryptocurrency

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121375185#Comment_121375185

Its always the other person, isn't it. The levels of denial are off the charts.

zell12

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122592323#Comment_122592323

https://joint-research-centre.ec.europa.eu/scientific-activities-z/survey-methods-and-analysis-centre-smac/loneliness/loneliness-prevalence-eu_en

..

zell12

Senator calls for a Minister for Loneliness

https://www.newstalk.com/news/we-relied-heavily-on-family-does-ireland-need-a-minister-for-loneliness-1768421

Tony EH

^

We've enough bleedin ministers.

Look, friendliness goes both ways but a lot of people just view a societies "friendliness" on how it is toward them and never bother to hold that mirror up to themselves and judge how they are interacting with that society. As an anecdote, I used to know this girl (let's say she was from the Antipodes) down the local who would complain about her "loneliness" and how the Irish weren't friendly and we had this conversation a number of times. But she was one of the most disagreeable people I think I've ever met in my life. She had a real knack of alienating everyone she came into contact with and then wondered why people were tending to avoid her after a few yaps. She also thought she was absolutely gorgeous too, but complained that she couldn't get a boyfriend.

"Head wreck" doesn't even begin to cover it.

I find that if you're friendly towards people, they are generally friendly back to you. But you have to temper your expectations. Merely being friendly doesn't mean you're going to be invited over for dinner in a week. Friendly and friends are two different things entirely. One takes a while to build.

In saying all that, I find that the Irish aren't any different to any other nationality that I've come across. As the father used to say, "There are good, bad, and indifferent everywhere". And I'll add that "national traits" should be ejected most of the time because they are often very misleading. For instance, the Germans have a reputation of being standoffish, unfunny and unfriendly, but some of the most readily friendly people I've ever met have been from Germany.

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122659610#Comment_122659610

I feel inclined to agree with the first sentence though I'm glad there's some sort of recognition within the Irish government that it's a serious problem.

As for the rest, I'd disagree a little. Like, it's not the fellas who have a circle of family and friends around them who live in the same village they grew up in or the extroverts who are feeling this way. I'm very much the introverted, keep myself to myself type but I find it easy enough to have the craic with people, especially when abroad but I do find it much easier if they make the effort to break the ice. To be clear, I'm not of the attitude that the world owes me anything or that other people should have to make the effort, just that it's much easier for me when they do.

I'm also a bit concerned by the impact of covid on younger people's social skills. We do so much online now that used to be face-to-face that it can't be good for connectivity and relationships. I don't think most people have the equivalent of the coffee place from Friends now to meet people in. It's usually work and home for most people and whatever relationships they have are those from childhood, their parents and a partner.

Obviously, people aren't powerless but I think it's more complicated than that or we wouldn't have this problem.

Tony EH

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122659819#Comment_122659819

TBH, I don't think Covid has had that much of an impact on younger people as much as the impact of so called "social media". It's amazing to see, sometimes, people sitting in the corner of the local stuck to their phones furiously tapping away at the screen and then being completely unable to hold a conversation with the person next to them. People that can be incredibly verbose over a phone can't find the way to do that IRL. It's been an odd development over the past couple of decades.

Also, we just don't do the coffee shit here and the thing from 'Friends' is just TV. In reality, there's no such place as "Central Perk" and never will be. In Ireland you head to the pub, or at least you used to, because you can spend a good few hours there. A few cups of coffee is what, an hour? Hour and half? It's why that scene never took off in a meaningful way over here. And I know several people who don't even drink alcohol and will still head the local for the chats. 0.0's have been a great way for some people to do that.

Lastly, being friendly is not a matter of introvert or extrovert (I don't particularly like those terms). You can be introverted and still be friendly. There are numerous people I know that are very quiet, but are still friendly people who respond to friendliness. They just won't be the ones to open that particular door, as it were. But if the conversation is right, they'll be just as friendly as the "extrovert" down the way.

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122659923#Comment_122659923

My parents, when I'm home, love giving me the TV remote and telling me to watch what I want while they each take out their phones and fill the room with noises from whatever ghastly apps they use. It's a weird phenomenon as you said but it's here to stay.

The point about Central Perk wasn't coffee shops, more that people had a regular place they'd go to socialise. Here in the UK, they're mostly chains and the fare is average at best.

zell12

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122659965#Comment_122659965

Such third places are disappearing fast or are too far away if rural - The third place refers to the social surroundings that are separate from the two usual social environments of home ("first place") and the workplace ("second place")

Tony EH

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122659965#Comment_122659965

more that people had a regular place they'd go to socialise

Both here and in Britain, that used to be the pub. And there's a lot to be said for that. Sadly, it's a dying breed. The old fashioned boozer used to be a great place to hang out in with friends or just familiar faces. They were the "regular place" people went to "to socialise". Unfortunately the price of that place has become more and more prohibitive for many people, who now stay at home and do their socialising on the phone.

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122659983#Comment_122659983

I think I'd be quite miserable if I went back home. I don't have anything in common with anyone there and I don't drink.

But yeah, the shift of people towards cities and mean that a lot of rural businesses are struggling.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122660035#Comment_122660035

I think there's a working men's club somewhere near me. I'd never heard of them but I think they'd fill much the same role as the local boozer would.

yagan

Growing up my third place was the library which was a sanctuary from other people.

I do wonder though if a part of the loneliness narrative is an already very talkative society gas lighting itself. Imagine a group of "concerned" meeting to talk about loneliness, having a great natter of which little is remember and then coming away all in agreement "isn't the auld loneliness a scrouge, see you next tuesday!".

I won't be surprised if a lot of what's called loneliness is just adjusting to being older where socialising with randoms isn't as much fun as in your teens and 20s.

I do think though that structurally one off housing in car dependent situations will become a recurring tragedy.