Storm Debi : Mon 13th Nov 2023

Drifter100

Seems to me that Met Eireann have now destroyed their credibility forever in future in Dublin. OK some areas of the country seem to have been hit badly but there was no need for a red warning in Dublin and the next time people will ignore it which may cause more hassle

From my point of view, I got up at 715 in SoCoDub and looked out. Bit of rain and wind. Got in the car drove to Armagh and did a days work. Back home at 6 and will be off again in the morn. Set the cruise control on the M50 and the trees at the side of the M1 were barely moving. Regular November day in Armagh

Met Eireann need to realise they are fffing with normal peoples lives

giveitholly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121365177#Comment_121365177

A "destroyed their credibility forever in future in Dublin". A tad dramatic no?

compsys

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121363928#Comment_121363928

Yep. I remember that. Was 24th Dec 1997 as you say. I was 15 and was in town getting last-minute Christmas presents. It was fairly windy now! I remember feeling almost relieved when I managed to get home and in the door.

It always stuck out in my memory but I was never fully sure of the date until others began mentioning it.

It absolutely would have been a Red warning today as gusts got up to 152kmh in Casement and over 140kmh in DA.

But things were a lot different back then. There were no warnings. And no access to social media, the internet, and all the info we have nowadays. Rightly or wrongly people just got on with it.

Some info on the storm is here:

https://bruener45.wixsite.com/britishislesclimate/post/christmas-eve-storm-of-1997

redsteveireland

Last report on Debi. Was up at the soccer club tonight, a good few big branches down, damage to some new metal fencing after a goal was thrown against it, and a good indicator of the wind direction was all the goals were blown towards the eastern corner of the grass pitches.

It also seems to have scared the crap out of my 7 year old as the sound of the wind in the trees had her clinging on to me.

Robwindstorm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121365169#Comment_121365169

That was a big one alright along with Christmas eve 1997. The February 1988 one had the exact same structure as that 1998 storm but was even deeper at around 944mb

holliehobbie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121363928#Comment_121363928

I think we were advised not to travel though unless it was absolutely necessary?

con747

People need to remember we are a small blob on this planet, I look at Met Eireann every day and curse them for getting it wrong in my little space. The bottom line is they cannot forecast within a few miles or even a hundred miles. Nature decides the way it goes not forecasters.

irishgeo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121365177#Comment_121365177

They might have saved some lives too. I got some news for you. The world doesn't revole around you.

The conditions from the forecast might have warranted a red the night before. They can't predict how the storm behaved over night.

If they didn't issue a red warning and the storm turned out to be a red warning event you would be moaning as well.

Its not as if they evacuated Dublin. It's shocking that people had to adjust a little to mind their own children.

Bobeagleburger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121365377#Comment_121365377

Most people understand this easily.

You'll always get whingers.

RabbleRouser2k

I can't really complain about Met Eireann's Red warning. Whilst some counties got lucky (and the storm was downgraded as an Orange, in some counties, hours after being declared a red, but it was in the a.m morning time, so most folks probably didn't see it) you'd still have to warrant the dangers it represented. 60, 000 to 70, 000 houses were left without power. It seemed to hit as hard as Darwin in some counties.

You definitely had to make sure people knew this was not going to be any normal weather warning. I mean, years back, Met Eireann gave serious warning due to a serious storm. Some guy went out in the storm, with a chainsaw, to cut fallen trees.

It didn't end well for him.

So they have to underline the dangers. Can't really be having repeats of that.

Peter Flynt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121365177#Comment_121365177

Well in NoCoDub the weather at 715AM yesterday was gusts as hugh as 130km/h with winds at 100 km/h and it certainly wasn't "a bit" of rain. Perhaps the southsiders in Dublin have their own climate separate to the rest of us?

It wasn't a "regular" day anywhere in November in Ireland yesterday.

So before you want to start discrediting others (Met Eireann) you should try not discrediting yourself first with your lying.

crusd

Are Met Eireann weather stations in the right locations ( or in enough locations). Highest Met Eireann gust of 115kph recorded in Athenry however unofficial station in the Marine Institute only 15km away was at 142kph. As we know the fields lie pretty low around the Athenry area(sic). Surely Met Eireann could get feeds from these more reputable sources to build a broader picture a extrems are often pretty local.

Storm 10

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121365862#Comment_121365862

Completely agree with you cant understand how there is no weather station on the Coast, the Marine Institute is right beside Galway Bay sailing club where there was a lot of damage done boats wrecked etc, my station in Newcastle Galway recorded a gust of 125km highest I ever recorded it was scary the noise it made perhaps they need to take a look at the locations for their recording of weather.

Macy0161

It's a "non-event", as most people heeded the warnings. They have to take into account impacts as well - rush hour in the east, during school term.

Cluedo Monopoly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121365862#Comment_121365862

Mace Head on the Galway coast is usually the station used to assess storm severity for me. It hit 140+ for Storm Ali but less than 100 yesterday.

Debi seemed to avoid Mace and funnel right into Galway bay very fast as the tide was high. I spoke to people over there (Kinvarra, Clarinbridge, Oranmore) and they said the wind was ferocious for about 20 minutes.

BrianD3

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121365862#Comment_121365862

I have seen the Marine Institute station described as a "personal weather station at the Marine Institute" - whatever that means. It sounds like a pet project with the Marine Institute name used to give it legitimacy. Is this weather station inspected, audited, validated etc. by ME. If it isn't then they should not use its data to try to justify a red warning. Scientists in other fields do not or should not rely on third parties in his manner.

ME do need more stations, not a huge number, perhaps 10 more for the country? They also need to keep all of the ones they currently have for continuity of data purposes. There need to be stringent planning and other controls protecting the locations as much as possible. That's if we're serous about weather and climate.

crusd

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121366081#Comment_121366081

I doubt the Marine Institute would allow their name to be used for a "pet project". Also, once the instruments are adequately calibrated they are valid data sources for scientific purposes and scientific study often uses third party data sources> Marine institute also manage the bouys which feed into Met Eireann data

BrianD3

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121366127#Comment_121366127

The data is either official or it is not and as I said, this station is being described as a "personal weather station". Also calibration of instruments isn't enough. I certainly wouldn't outsource scientific work to a third party on the basis of them calibrating their instruments. At a minimum I'd be regularly inspecting and auditing them myself and/or relying on an authority such as INAB to do so.

Consider a different scenario where ME issues a red wind warning and a ME station shows red level gusts with a MI station showing green. A journalist uses this to question ME on why a red warning was issued. Do you think that ME are going to accept that they may have gotten it wrong based on unofficial measurements? They will not.

pauldry

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121364714#Comment_121364714

Nah. This is hitting the South of England not us.

Rikand

Weather station auditing sounds like a grand civil service job for someone. Maybe something for a HEO, EO and a couple of COs to do on a weekly basis. I might apply for it myself 😅

crusd

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121366273#Comment_121366273

Not sure what point you are trying to make. More data is always better and as long as you can stand over the veracity of the data it is all useful. With any weather event there will be individual stations that dont exceed the requirement so an "unofficial" station not recording a red would not call into question an official station recording a red as both measurements are likely true.

It seems the Marine institute also jointly operate the Newport station with Met Eireann. The likely reason the Oranmore station is not an official Met Eireann station is the Athenry one is only 15km away. Data is still valid however. Met Eireann are not the only body with the competency to correctly operate an anemometer

Either way, the Marine institute is an organisation which has demonstrated the competency to record and report precision scientific data

BrianD3

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121366368#Comment_121366368

More data is better if you can stand over the veracity - that's a big if. Perhaps you are right that the reason the MI station is not an official one is because of the proximity to the official Athenry station. Regardless of the reason for it being an unofficial station or how easy it is to operate an anemometer, if ME is going to use scientific data to justify official red warnings, then it needs to be official data. It's that black and white.

I wouldn't have much of an issue with ME justifying a red warning by making more general, vague statements about how the Athenry station may not be representative of weather conditions elsewhere in Galway due to station location. They'll try to avoid saying that though as it would see them rightly criticised for not having a representative station. If they then deflect by introducing unofficial data from third parties into their justification, using the fact that they are legitimate state agencies to legitimise the data, that puts ME firmly into spin territory.

The buoy data is different, if ME has deemed that this data is official and that the Marine Institute has the necessary expertise, competence and equipment to do this work.

I've worked for state agencies in scientific roles and have seen plenty of spin, fudging and politicking happen along with many issues with outsourcing, data quality, consistency, management and reporting. I would hope that ME is the most rigorous of the state agencies but that might be naive. Am still shocked that they allow RTE to repeat the previous day's forecast every morning on TV with references to today and tonight etc. That would indicate that ME isn't as on top of of its remit or as protective of its reputation as it should be.

Kutebride

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121363787#Comment_121363787

The Athenry gust must be the one to knock out my sisters electricity in the West @sryanbruen. Still no power near that station. 😵

Dazler97

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121364947#Comment_121364947

Where well over due a decent Arctic blast fingers and toes crossed

snowstreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121368153#Comment_121368153

Did she not get the power back yet this afternoon? Ours came back on around 12pm this afternoon. It was the longest time without power that Ive had since I moved here.

Mapaputsi

Very interested to read about the gusts recorded at the marine institute Oranmore. I live in the town and it was the worst wind I've ever experienced, I said it earlier in the thread but there was 20 minutes or so that it was particularly ferocious and peeking out the window I saw debris and rubbish hurtling past at a crazy speed. It was very very localised though, as you can see from the reports of damage being in about a 20km zone along Galway Bay.

Scrabbel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121365862#Comment_121365862

There's a very important point here surely. When Met Eireann forecast gusts of up to 135kmh, they presumably aren't saying "maximum gusts at the very specific locations where we have official wind gauges" will be 135kmh. It would be a freakish coincidence if the highest gusts anywhere just happened to be at one of the very few ME wind gauges. So anyone comparing the max gusts at an ME station with the forecast max gusts isn't really comparing like with like. Whatever about sustained winds (still only measured over 1 minute I think?) highest gusts anywhere in the country could presumably be much higher than the highest of the official wind gauges.

Kutebride

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121368958#Comment_121368958

Still out tonight @snowstreams Has to chuck all the food in the freezer. Be same for every household now without power at this stage. No heat. Dark at 5pm. No light. Not sure if many elderly in the locality effected. I thinking of them, without heat and light. ☹️

snowstreams

That’s awfully slow to be reconnected. I’m eating from the freezer this week but thankfully my food didn’t thaw out too much.

i got a 500w inverter that plugs into the car battery. It’s enough to power my boiler & radiator pump plus it could be used on the freezer too but you would need to keep the car engine running while using it.

i was using a little gas camping stove too.

I hope the old people have ranges or stoves in their houses to keep warm the last few days.

https://www.halfords.ie/motoring/tools/garage-workshop/inverters/ring-automotive-powersource-inverter-500w-rinvu500-338118.html

Discodog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121365985#Comment_121365985

Something happened in Maree/Oranmore. In Spiddal the sea didn't overtop & few trees were damaged. In Maree/Oranmore walls were blown down, a huge tree blown over & seaweed spread 20 feet up into gardens.