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Beginning in 2024, all motor insurers will require a driver number

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    #32
    Marcusm
    Registered Users Posts: 10,186 ✭✭✭✭Marcusm


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121337573#Comment_121337573

    Because it makes it easy to check who has insurance but is not fully licenced. Some of those will not have a second named driver and drive unaccompanied. Perhaps they might arrange for some civilian members to AGS to do follow ups in advance of actual Gardaí doing something about it.



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    #33
    Marcusm
    Registered Users Posts: 10,186 ✭✭✭✭Marcusm


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121338433#Comment_121338433

    More’s the pity; he likely lied to get an offer of insurance, e.g. if he claimed to have a full licence. That carries a custodial sentence which is what it sounds like he deserves.



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    #34
    coylemj
    Registered Users Posts: 25,331 ✭✭✭✭coylemj


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121357871#Comment_121357871

    You can't get cover on the basis that you have a full licence without actually producing a full licence. So it's highly unlikely that he told any lies to get his insurance. And even less likely that he would get jail, if he did.



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    #35
    gipi
    Registered Users Posts: 2,860 ✭✭✭gipi


    How will this change work with open driving policies, I wonder?

    Or are we seeing the beginning of the end for open driving?



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    #36
    coylemj
    Registered Users Posts: 25,331 ✭✭✭✭coylemj


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121362392#Comment_121362392

    Open driving applies to people who have a full licence. This new measure will only affect people who have no licence of any kind.

    Insurers know that a lot of their customers have been driving for years without a full licence but, year after year, they're happy to take their money.



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    #37
    Marcusm
    Registered Users Posts: 10,186 ✭✭✭✭Marcusm


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121362334#Comment_121362334

    I don’t think I was ever asked by Liberty to produce licence - just to declare that I had one!



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    #38
    galwaytt
    Registered Users Posts: 12,761 ✭✭✭✭galwaytt


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121340614#Comment_121340614

    It's not valid here for any purpose. They ran mountains of ads on media, radio etc at the time and gave a lot of grace at the time. That time has now passed. Get a licence - you're looking at Theory Test, EDT and a Driving Test.

    You wouldn't get the same flexibility in the UK I guarantee you.

    Ode To The Motorist

    “And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, generates funds to the exchequer. You don't want to acknowledge that as truth because, deep down in places you don't talk about at the Green Party, you want me on that road, you need me on that road. We use words like freedom, enjoyment, sport and community. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent instilling those values in our families and loved ones. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the tax revenue and the very freedom to spend it that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise I suggest you pick up a bus pass and get the ********* ********* off the road” 



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    #39
    Slightly Kwackers
    Registered Users Posts: 619 ✭✭✭Slightly Kwackers


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121363896#Comment_121363896

    But I came here prior to Ireland and England entering the EU. I always drove on my English licence with two exceptions, one was when my licence was having speeding points added and I had to get an international licence and the other was when I wanted to bring a motorcycle and my motorcycle test was due the week before, so I applied for an Irish provisional licence as a "fail safe". English provisional licences were not valid.


    I can still do a simple swop, it turns out I cannot do it online though as I don't have a photographic card with my PPS number.


    I know full well what the UK is like. There is no flexibility. I think a lot of the inflexibility is simply a cash grab, anyone with a car is instantly traceable and four wheels means they have some money at least, so police, councils and any thug that can buy a clamping kit and signage sees the motorist as their own little "golden goose".



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    #40
    galwaytt
    Registered Users Posts: 12,761 ✭✭✭✭galwaytt


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121364996#Comment_121364996

    So you've been driving without a proper licence since before 1973 ? There's no excuse for that.

    Ode To The Motorist

    “And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, generates funds to the exchequer. You don't want to acknowledge that as truth because, deep down in places you don't talk about at the Green Party, you want me on that road, you need me on that road. We use words like freedom, enjoyment, sport and community. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent instilling those values in our families and loved ones. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the tax revenue and the very freedom to spend it that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise I suggest you pick up a bus pass and get the ********* ********* off the road” 



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    #41
    Slightly Kwackers
    Registered Users Posts: 619 ✭✭✭Slightly Kwackers


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121365454#Comment_121365454

    It depends what you mean by a "proper" licence.

    Up to this point I have always been fully legal in any country I drove in.

    If my insurance is valid with the licence that I'm using, I am doing no harm to anyone.

    My insurance is valid, I have the email and certificate to prove it, so I don't feel too uncomfortable about the situation.

    I expect those that look on it as a way of avoiding points feel put out, but as my motorised pub crawls and speeding are things of the past, points are not something that concern me. In the UK they can apply points to people without a licence, as some lads I went to school with found out. The points were added to their first provisional licence if I recall. I'm sure the same would happen here when I do switch anyway.



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    #42
    Flinty997
    Registered Users Posts: 11,521 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121337497#Comment_121337497

    They'd only be 60.

    That said most bad driving is younger people. So not entirely sure if it's worth effort on older people.

    A lot of the problems are caused by insurance companies not chasing insurance scams, inflated insurance costs, heath and legal costs.

    This driver number seems another means of giving the impression of doing something for the least effort.



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    #43
    SEPT 23 1989
    Registered Users Posts: 43,024 ✭✭✭✭SEPT 23 1989


    Don’t think I have ever switched insurance companies in the last 20 years without sending a copy of the licence to them



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    #44
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121365767#Comment_121365767

    I've only ever done it once, to the AA, in 25 years of driving. Supplying a driver number was slightly more common though.



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    #45
    coylemj
    Registered Users Posts: 25,331 ✭✭✭✭coylemj


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121365735#Comment_121365735

    Saying 'This driver number seems another means of giving the impression of doing something for the least effort.' suggests that this is some kind of token effort on the part of insurance companies to improve safety on the roads. It is no such thing, it's being forced on them by legislation.

    The thousands of older drivers out there who have never passed the test are paying higher premiums which the insurance companies are happy to collect. There is nothing in this initiative for them. If there was, all of them would have been demanding your driver number (I know some of them do already) for several years past.



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    #46
    28064212
    Registered Users Posts: 10,461 ✭✭✭✭28064212


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121366249#Comment_121366249

    You've already said that these drivers have held a provisional licence. In which case they have a driver number. So how does this legislation do anything to prevent them getting insurance?

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    #47
    Flinty997
    Registered Users Posts: 11,521 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121366249#Comment_121366249

    I don't see the point of it then.



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    #48
    Flinty997
    Registered Users Posts: 11,521 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    Did you put in the router password?



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    #49
    L1011
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,703 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121362334#Comment_121362334

    There are piles of insurers that don't check your licence (currently).

    I had to provide it once in my entire time having insurance - to Travelers (who have now left the market), but I've never given it to 123 (when RSA tied and owned), Quinn/Liberty, FBD (direct or nononsense branded) or AIG.

    Quinn was the only one I ever used with a provisional, and they didn't ask for the full when informing them of the change in status either.

    There's a lot of reliance on the "utmost good faith" basis by insurers in Ireland (nearly said Irish insurers, but 3/4 of those are UK/US)



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    #50
    galwaytt
    Registered Users Posts: 12,761 ✭✭✭✭galwaytt


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121365579#Comment_121365579

    If you are domiciled here, and do not have an EU licence here, you do not have a "proper licence" and therefore are not "fully legal" in any country you drive in. A condition (say) of you driving to the UK is that you are fully compliant with the law where you are domiciled (e.g. tax, insurance, NCT, licence), which leaves you exposed to points & fines there as well.

    You claim your insurance is valid because of this - yet that's an assumption as it hasn't been tested in your case. Yet. And nobody want's the Yet to come true. What could happen is that your insurance would pay out on a claim, and then they could go after you in a civil suit to clawback any payments paid out by them.

    And yes, if you accumulate points on a 'ghost licence', as soon as you get an Irish one they will be applied to it.

    Ode To The Motorist

    “And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, generates funds to the exchequer. You don't want to acknowledge that as truth because, deep down in places you don't talk about at the Green Party, you want me on that road, you need me on that road. We use words like freedom, enjoyment, sport and community. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent instilling those values in our families and loved ones. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the tax revenue and the very freedom to spend it that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise I suggest you pick up a bus pass and get the ********* ********* off the road” 



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    #51
    coylemj
    Registered Users Posts: 25,331 ✭✭✭✭coylemj



    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121366756#Comment_121366756

    I wasn't aware of that. I informed Axa when I passed the test and they asked me to fax the certificate of competency to them so I wouldn't have the loading for a provisional licence at my next renewal. I assumed that everyone else did something similar.

    If they're as lax as you say, this initiative is going to expose a lot of provisional/no licence drivers and they are going to get royally screwed at their next renewal if they previously declared that they had a full licence.



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    #52
    28064212
    Registered Users Posts: 10,461 ✭✭✭✭28064212


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121366884#Comment_121366884

    Those drivers only get screwed if there's a requirement on the insurer to cross-reference the driver number against a licence database. Which there isn't.

    Additionally, this legislation was written in 2016 (Road Traffic Act 2016, section 30). It still hasn't been enacted

    Boardsie Enhancement Suite - a browser extension to make using Boards on desktop a better experience (includes full-width display, keyboard shortcuts, and dark mode). Now available through the extension stores

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    #53
    coylemj
    Registered Users Posts: 25,331 ✭✭✭✭coylemj


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121367646#Comment_121367646

    But don't most of the insurers have access to the penalty points database? If they do then surely they can also check if driver no. xxx has a full licence or not?

    https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/motors/motor-insurance-firms-given-access-to-penalty-points-database-1.2727474

    With or without legislation, it's surely in their interests to validate if someone has a full licence if he/she claims to have one. Because if they simply take the customer's word then lots of people who have not passed the test will claim to have a full licence and the insurers will miss the additional revenue they would get from the surcharge they could impose on them for having only a learner permit. Or no licence at all.

    It's all very well saying 'oh well, they'll be rumbled if they have a claim'. But we're talking about people who only drive locally and the majority of them are driving for years without a claim.



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    #54
    28064212
    Registered Users Posts: 10,461 ✭✭✭✭28064212


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121367668#Comment_121367668

    There is specific legislation in place for that: https://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2014/act/3/section/5/enacted/en/html#sec5. I haven't seen any evidence of legislation allowing them to cross-check driver number against licence type.

    And the penalty points example only reiterates how this legislation doesn't have any effect on the drivers you're talking about - they didn't need the driver number to check the penalty points database, so why would requiring the driver number suddenly allow them to check whether a valid licence is held?

    Boardsie Enhancement Suite - a browser extension to make using Boards on desktop a better experience (includes full-width display, keyboard shortcuts, and dark mode). Now available through the extension stores

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    #55
    Marcusm
    Registered Users Posts: 10,186 ✭✭✭✭Marcusm


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121364996#Comment_121364996

    You were here prior to 1972; are you over 70? If so then you may have to do and Irish test as ot is not possible to exchange over the age of 70. Was an issue for an uncle more than 10 years ago before Brexit became a discussion. Presumably you also only have a U.K. paper licence as to get a photo card you would have had to assert you lived permanently in the U.K.



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    #56
    Slightly Kwackers
    Registered Users Posts: 619 ✭✭✭Slightly Kwackers


    I was here on and off since the 1950's

    I have not returned to the UK for four years I think it is. This is by far the longest period that I have lived in Ireland in my life. I have totally lost my enthusiasm for England, too many Tories, porkies and too much xenophobia for my liking, so I don't envisage a return. My pooch, goosey and the kwackers might pose problems post Brexit anyway.

    I did get an email last month and have forwarded my UK driver number, I have had no response back to say there is a problem.


    I will get a swap sorted, I thought I might have problems with the NCT, but Castleisland test center assured me the English licence is fine.

    It's odd, I was never, ever asked for my licence for an MOT test in the UK, in fact I don't see how it matters. If the car is roadworthy, surely it's still roadworthy if the owner gets banned or croaks? The requirement for a licence seem to be a bit needless to me.



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    #57
    galwaytt
    Registered Users Posts: 12,761 ✭✭✭✭galwaytt


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121455713#Comment_121455713

    you were asked for your licence for identification purposes - nothing to do with the actual NCT test itself.

    I bring my wifes/sons/daughters cars to NCT regularly and they just need to know who's presenting it, nothing sinister.

    Ode To The Motorist

    “And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, generates funds to the exchequer. You don't want to acknowledge that as truth because, deep down in places you don't talk about at the Green Party, you want me on that road, you need me on that road. We use words like freedom, enjoyment, sport and community. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent instilling those values in our families and loved ones. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the tax revenue and the very freedom to spend it that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise I suggest you pick up a bus pass and get the ********* ********* off the road” 



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    #58
    AnnaStezia
    Registered Users Posts: 289 ✭✭AnnaStezia


    Will they be looking for a copy of your driving licence or just the number ?



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    #59
    galwaytt
    Registered Users Posts: 12,761 ✭✭✭✭galwaytt


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121522475#Comment_121522475


    What's the difference ? Once you give them a copy of your licence they can read your number and then look up the database to check it's status, including points.

    Ode To The Motorist

    “And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, generates funds to the exchequer. You don't want to acknowledge that as truth because, deep down in places you don't talk about at the Green Party, you want me on that road, you need me on that road. We use words like freedom, enjoyment, sport and community. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent instilling those values in our families and loved ones. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the tax revenue and the very freedom to spend it that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise I suggest you pick up a bus pass and get the ********* ********* off the road” 



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