EV long distance versus 14 year old diesel.

...Ghost...

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121323554#Comment_121323554

Sounds nice, but I can probably only afford to eat a canary for Christmas with the cost of living 🤣

Old diesel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121327594#Comment_121327594

This was a race with two drivers that was aimed at both drivers individual anti EV audience.

So there's a very good chance it was deliberately planned to be as bothersome as possible for the EV.....

I haven't even watched it and have no intention of doing so....

There's already been a video linked in this thread of someone doing the exact same trip with 1 hr 23 mins charging I don't care that it was a Tesla - the Tesla and superchargers are STILL EV tech.

That other chap only literally decided to do the trip the day before when he was in Scotland for a family event*.

I will have a look at that other video with the Tesla and study why THAT journey went well.

*His Dad got a PHD and the graduation ceremony was on in the Scottish University he did it in.

RoboRat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121327721#Comment_121327721

Ah the old 'let's move the goalposts' now approach.

Old diesel

Actually having seen that Richard Symonds video a number of times before.

I can go through why that was a totally different experience.

1) you had a driver committed to seeing how good an EV could do it.....

Not chasing "EVs are a scam" headlines.....

2) Teslas tech in terms of the charging and route planning is the industry benchmark with V2 and V3 superchargers when using a Tesla.

Time will tell if V4 lives up to previous Tesla reliability for charging.

But the car guided him in where to stop and how long at superchargers....

3) the guy was used to doing successful long distance EV runs.....

4) Model S long range had good range and charge speed compromise....

Would be interesting to see how Richard Symonds would get along with a Taycan.

He might still hit issues but i think hed still do a better job especially if also allowed two days for the job.....

...Ghost...

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121325074#Comment_121325074

Renting a car for 100 times throughout the year is just bat shít crazy tbh. Not to mention the inconvenience of pick-up and drop off. Cheapest to rent in Dublin tomorrow I could find was €39 for a fiesta. Fuel policy is full to full, so you put your own juice in. That's easily pushing the price above €50 for the rental. If we generously assume the average daily rate is €50 all in, that's 5 grand a year to drive an econobox per year.

You're also at the mercy of huge increases at busy periods, so it's likely a good bit more than that. Want to rent the same econobox over Christmas? That's gonna be €85 per day, plus fuel. Any time the schools are off....prices will rocket. No thanks.

Unless you live beside a rental place, you're either paying to get there and back, or taking a very long walk.

Gumbo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121327828#Comment_121327828

Seen a video of the V4 chargers yesterday. Model S Plaid getting 262kw I think.

They also out an ID4 in beside it. Easy to use, tap to pay or use the Tesla app. Seemly a slightly cheaper rate if you’re registered on the Tesla app for non Tesla users.

waterwelly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121327807#Comment_121327807

He's correct though.

EV's produce emissions, maybe not directly but certainly indirectly.

Like this nonsense of getting briquettes from Germany.

Or banning regular coal so people are bulk buying pallets from the north.

Nobody can keep a straight face and claim EV's are anything but bad for the environment.

Gumbo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121328127#Comment_121328127

EV’s are better for the environment at local level. At the source. In cities and towns.

It makes a real difference to pedestrians and cyclists at the source.

RoboRat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121328127#Comment_121328127

All cars cause emissions during the build process. However, diesel needs to be refined which causes more CO2 emissions, but to be fair, so does making batteries.

However the amount of CO2 generated to make diesel for the lifetime of the car far outweighs the CO2 to make a battery. There are ample studies on this.

Then you have the tailpipe emissions, and there are none with a EV.

EV's cause far fewer emissions overall, and none after the build process, or at a local level, which is what we pay carbon credits for.

So yes, an EV has emissions during the build and it's better to not own a car full stop, but as i said, this is moving the goalposts from the original discussion, and using coal and briquettes as a counter point is irrelevant.

Perhaps his point was that we should just revert to being hunter gathers and living in caves and using the pelts from dead animals for warmth.

Padre_Pio

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121328615#Comment_121328615

When people are reduced to arguing about slightly more tyre rubber pollution on EVs then you know the environmental case against EVs has no basis at all.

I really enjoy how contrived the scenario has to be for EVs to lose against ICE cars.

I remember maybe 6 or 7 years ago a comparison video with a journey from London to Birmingham in a Nissan Leaf. At least that's a trip that some people would do sometimes.

Now they're going from Land's End to John O'Groats to make a point.

Can't wait to see what they come out with in 5 years time!

RoboRat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121329272#Comment_121329272

You'll have to be able to complete the Paris Dakkar race on a single charge without using your aircon....

mfceiling

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121327828#Comment_121327828

Carwow did a race with a Taycan Vs a model S.

The Taycan was quicker on the journey (Matt f*cked up a junction and would have won had he not done it).

Richard Symons was driving the other car

As with all this clickbait nonsense, it's better to ignore it. Better off watching Richard Symons (rsymons) on YouTube. You'll get a much better idea of how an EV can do an actual long distance test.

Edit - it wasn't the Taycan but the Audi E-Tron which is practically the same car.

kanuseeme

Much more reasonable to have 2 EVs race against each other, than have one of them a 14 year old diesel car,

I see a lot of posts about 3000km on holidays, 15 minute stops and 4 different apps, one post about hiring a car, I remember that was suggested often enough here when it was the leaf that was the car of choice.

Say anything against an EV and your anti EV, say anything for another type of drive train your anti EV, open your mouth at all and the usual suspects come down on you like a ton of bricks.

Any video posted that does not show EV's in a positive light is flawed, take Nobbys video for example, I highly doubt he is anti EV, blaming him for not using ionity? what the hell? signing up for a few sites that he might use around the country? saying how stupid he was for not attending to business or eating where he wants to eat

Too many ducks need to line up for an EV to work as good as an ice, your all complaining about cancerous emissions, yet nothing is good enough only an EV, a hybrid one of the most fuel efficient cars is ridiculed at every opportunity, saying nothing of the lies sprouted about phevs, and when all else fails its moaning about we are just a group wanting to talk about EVs.

GSBellew

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121327227#Comment_121327227

I'm talking about the speed to charge, the post I quoted indicated 50L per minute from a diesel pump, if you take my car with a circa 50L tank that would equate to a full refuel in 60 seconds, the post I quoted indicated looking forward to EV's charging at the same rate, a 60 second empty to full recharge?

"A quick Google would suggest there is 10kWh in a liter of diesel and a diesel pump will fill at 50L/minute which is the equivalent of 500kWh/min or 30,000kW(h/h)

As an optimist I think electric cars will eventually get to this speed of charge"

Gumbo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121330240#Comment_121330240

You’re in an EV sub forum. Like it or lump it.

Your PHEV or my PHEV is not the holy grail. Say anything pro EV and the usual suspects will come in spouting about the best dual technology (PHEV’s) 😂

I think you are too sensitive to criticism of your PHEV. You overly defend it at every chance and that comes acros in your posts from someone on the outside looking in.

I certainly don’t hold my 530e to same god like heights that you do. It’s a compliance car to be honest, but that doesn’t mean they don’t have their place.

I also don’t see too many putting PHEV’s down on here. I do think the manufacturers sell them to keep the ICE of things in motion and if they fully committed to BEV they would make substantial progress forward but the industry isint ready for that just yet.

kanuseeme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121330298#Comment_121330298

 Electric Vehicles & Hybrids to be precise, but your right its practically just EVs only, as anything else is just rubbished.

Maybe I lack the finesse to call them a compliance car, trust me on this, the EV thing here comes across as much the same.

I have only one car, maybe if I had the choice of 3 or 4 then I could relax a little bit.

MrMusician18

Returning to the video in the opening post. After watching some of it, YouTube saw fit to recommend more videos from the two creators. I can't say I feel like watching more from them was an enriching experience.

It's quite clear that the two lads didn't approach the "test" with an open mind, despite what they may claim. Geoff (from his other videos) clearly has a bee in his bonnet over EVs and the other guy has videos outlining at least over a year ago why he thinks EVs are a scam (which makes me wonder why he still owns one?). It seems to me that these fellas are being intentionally provocative in order to drive views and engagement with their videos, having found that these sorts of videos on EVs is a profitable endeavour, moreso than reviewing the best Sunday roast in Benidorm.

It's just YouTube trash.

Gumbo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121330445#Comment_121330445

Exactly. Then some posters wonder why other posters rubbish some videos and their methods as rubbish. And try to play the anti ICE/PHEV card.

It was a rubbish video with a set goal from the start.

traco

Its such a same there isn't a similar archive for the late 1800's and the early 1900's when the horse v's car debate happened?

Maybe the next thread should be a ye olde style where we can discuss the availability of hay and grass vs the availability of petrol, solvents or anything else that might go boom with a spark?

Or we could drop back another 100 and have a chat about the bicyle v's the horse??

Red Silurian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121326693#Comment_121326693

Respectfully I'm going to disagree, when the Ioniq, Leaf and i3 were first given the DC option they very impressively showcased 50kW speeds back in 2014. Open to correction, but I think the fastest charging car on the market right now is the Porsche Taycan at 270kW which first came out in 2019. That's a 5-fold increase in charging speed in 5 years. Tesla V4s will soon be able to do 615kW.

We could soon be in a situation where refilling an EV battery will take less time than filling a petrol tank

Gumbo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121331381#Comment_121331381

Model 3 will do 270 too in performance trim. Model S deffo does 260+

Ioniq 5 also have 800v charging infrastructure but the tricky bit is getting chargers here that can deliver that.

Padre_Pio

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121331381#Comment_121331381

These are also edge cases where an EV owner would NEED to charge at this speed. Maybe only a handful of times a year.

liamog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121331381#Comment_121331381

CATL are now touting their Shenxing Superfast Charging Battery https://electrek.co/2023/08/16/catl-new-fast-charging-battery-250-mi-10-min/. They are claiming from an LFP pack with a range of 700km you can add 400km of range in 10mins.

We're seeing a steady progression in energy density and charging capabilities. Today it's understandable that a person doesn't want to stop for 45 mins compared to an average petrol station dwell time of 3-6 minutes to add 300km of range. If we're talking about someone instead having the option to stop for 10mins to add 500km range, then arguing over having to spend an extra 5 minutes waiting sounds silly.

josip

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121331832#Comment_121331832

How can they claim up to 700km range for a battery on its own?

Don't they need a motor and a set of wheels attached to it for that?

Shouldn't they just be referring to kWhs and leave the kms to the car manufacturers?

GSBellew

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121331381#Comment_121331381

I await the 60 second full charge you predict.

liamog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121331881#Comment_121331881

It's probably something along the lines of we're able to increase energy density without increasing the mass of the battery pack. Our past customer was able to use that to provide a 500km range EV, the new chemistry is 40% denser so all other things being equal a 700km pack is now possible in the same space. As a battery supplier they probably have a reference platform to make comparisons easier for their automotive customers.

Red Silurian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121331832#Comment_121331832

The last time I was at J14 it was a 20 minute stop to get me back to Limerick at 120kmph

The last time I did that in a diesel I had to fill up, then go into the shop and pay. If you add in the time it takes to pour a coffee and take a p!$$, which I would often do on a long journey, it gets very close to the same amount of time spent in the shop

liamog

Mod Note: The video from OP only contained a full EV, and a Diesel car, dragging the topic to PHEVs again is not needed. Posts removed. Warning's will be issued if it carries on.

...Ghost...

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121330240#Comment_121330240

I remember posters from a couple years back that would suggest a car rental for the 2 or 3 times a year the average joe might go from one side of the country to the other. That seemed reasonable if 99% of journeys were otherwise within the range of a Leaf 24. It's exactly the position I was in when I bought the Leaf. Personally, I was comfortable enough to go beyond the range a couple of times, doing Dublin to Belfast twice and Dublin to Athlone once in the first year of ownership. I did plenty of other trips where I needed to charge once or twice round trip and it was grand. I didn't need a rental and just took the rare inconvenience of charging on the chin.

That is however quite different from renting a car for 100 days of the year, which was quite rightly ridiculed and called out as nonsensical. And to cap it off, the sums put forward were very optimistic and took zero account of having to get to and from the nearest rental location.

MrMusician18

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121334972#Comment_121334972

It was put forward as an alternative to car ownership rather than supplementing EV ownership.

While you might think it ridiculous, it's something that I have done, mixing gocar and other hire for longer periods to avoid the costs of ownership. At that time, for me it worked out less than car ownership. It would have been utterly crazy for me, needing a car one or max two times a week, with a low milage need, parked up, depreciating, needing insurance, maintenance, tax, NCT when a cheaper alternative existed.

Yes, not for everyone, but if you live and or work in a large urban centre it could work for you. It did for me and that's my experience.