Looking to build a 2nd PC Workstation Upgrade & Need 512GB RAM

cornholio509

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121282795#Comment_121282795

I agree that you can run it . Never said you can't . WHat i have been saying is the CPU wont utilize more than 128GB . THe other 64GB of ram in the system will just sit idle .It wont matter if you have a programme that can overwhelm 128gigs of ram . It will not be able to map the other 64gbs to be able to use . Its a hardware limitation of the controller on the CPU .

I really have to stress this that CPUs and not the be all and end all . Your motherboard first and foremost has to support 192GB of ram . After that your OS . the CPUs max supported ram doesn't factor for the OS to display more ram than the CPU supports . You notice the issue when a program that can send huge datasets to ram to max out the 192GBs . It will always hardstop just shy if the 128GB limit as the CPU cant map the rest in order to use it . THe excess ram sits there and does nothing .

AS for the video and the business selling that service . THe video only shows you can install that amount of ram on the X670E platform . Nothing more . If the X670E motherboard supported 512 gigs of ram it would be the same . The bios and windows would show it . CPU can still only use 128GBs .

As for the crowd renting 192gb of ram on a 7950X . Its scummy business practice in order to take money from people . Its not illegal because you get what you pay for . Its just morally wrong . Or its a typo .

Cuddlesworth

Your just doubling down on your statement, moving the goalposts when confronted with evidence and showing nothing of fact.

If it posts and boots, and windows says you can use it, you can use it. I am more then willing to change my opinion when given actual evidence otherwise that doesn't amount to "trust me bro".

cornholio509

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121285794#Comment_121285794

Again ryzen 7000 CPUs on the AM5 socket haven't got the capabilities to use more ram than its designed for . You can say i am moving the goalposts all you want . It still wont change the fact that what i have stated in all my posts is true . It wont change AMDs product page for their processors , because what they have put there is also true .

its not a TRUST ME BRO" statement . It is a fact .

DO a little digging into memory controllers and you will find out the truth of how things work .

"The memory controller built into the CPU needs to be designed to address a particular number of memory bank groups (blocks of data within the RAM), ranks (rows of memory chips within a memory channel) and channels (sets of wires connecting the memory controller to the RAM). You need to increase the amount of wires in the controler for the CPU to use more ram ."

YOUR argument is because a bios supports it and windows displays it . The CPU has to be able to utilize the full 192GBs . SO AMD is wrong and so is everyone else . Cant come out with a bigger "trust me bro statement" there. You cant seem to acknowledge the facts and use software to weirdly justify your statement .

The physical connection needed does not exist in the CPUs memory controller . I cant see why you cant grasp that . Your bios is software and it supports 192GBs of ram . SO yes it will report it . In the video the guy was using window 10 or 11 pro . so yes it will report it . I wont deny that . The CPU wont use more than 128 GBs no matter what software tries to get it to do .

ZingK

Hey everyone, I've been following the discussion, I may be wrong but it seems things are getting a tiny bit intense. I would prefer if we all chilled a little bit please. I think everyone here is just trying to help out. I am unsure, but maybe someone possibly made a mistake but it's no big deal either way imo.

I was considering waiting for the Ryzen 4 7000 series Threadripper, or "STORM PEAK". I like the idea of newer technology for potential of improved performance and future proofing the new system I intend to build, ease of upgrades etc. It all depends on costs versus benefits which I need to strongly consider.

As for the Xeon based workstation, it's something I would also consider if I am priced out of the above system, as I would all the suggestions people have been kind enough to post in this thread.

As always I appreciate everyone's time and input on this. It's a fantastic community here, thanks a mil.

cornholio509

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121290383#Comment_121290383

Not really getting heated . WHile it might seem so people can get misconceptions about things hardware waise when software tells them something else . I could debate cuddlesworth all day on this . As far as i am concerned i have no hard feelings . Just been in IT for a long enough to have been fooled by the same thing only to have been set straight by those with more experience .

As for thread ripper 7000 series its too early to tell . Desktop CPU like frequency with server grade everything else . However benchmarks will tell how good or bad it is . 2 or 3 weeks time we should be able find out . SO i wouldn't rush to much . ALso we are coming up of a lot of sales this time of year so its worth waiting a bit longer .

As for intel your kinda in a weird situation . You can buy a used 12core intel Xeon w series PC fairly cheap . However from what i can see its all refurbed at around 1200-15000 euro . Also stuck with DDR4 . INTElL W970 Motherboards are going to cost about 1000 euro give or take €100 . The CPU i would recommend there would be the Intel Xeon W5-3425 . Costs about 1300-1500 euro . Everything below that is basically desktop grade CPUs with server grade ram capacities and PCIE lanes . However CPU speeds are shockingly slow . AT least it would be current generation HEDT from intel . Will probably come out about the same as AMDs threadripper .

One thing to remember though . HEDT CPUs are generally poor or completely suck at gaming . So if your going for the rtx 4070 put that in your old system for your any gaming you might do . Put the gtx 1050 into the new machine so you have video out .

Again wait for AMDs CPU to be launched and compare prices and performance then see if AMD or intel is worth it . I would take AMDs benchmarks with a grain of salt as no third party can confirm them yet . At least the intel Xeons have been benchmarked since they launched early this year .

Cuddlesworth

ZingK, I would take a serious look at AliExpress, the datacenters there are unloading EYPC parts off for real cheap. You are not going to find "value" or future proofing in HEDT or the server market buying new, they are catered to Enterprise. Your competing with companies mostly, not other people. Its all very overvalued.

And the new Threadrippers are not going to be cheap, the smallest one, the 24 core had a 1500 USD retail listed so over 2k Euros here. Board will be around 600 because they are never cheap, 4x64gig of DDR5 Registered ram costs around 1k. That's a 24core, 256gig mobo+proc+ram combined for around 3500 Euros.

Your not going to be able to compete with something like the below on pure specs or even come close when purchasing new. Its a risk as its all coming from China but the larger stores are usually good to work with if something arrives broken.

Dual EPYC 7532 32 Core CPUs, 64/128 Cores/Threads Total, H11DSI-NT dual CPU motherboard, 512gb of DDR4 Registered Ram 2666mhz, 8 Slots on a 16 slot board so another 800 Euro and your approaching 1TB of ram.

You would need a chonky power supply and case for either option.

Without knowing the specific use case, everything you have said implies you want raw cpu power and lots of ram.

If that's not really the case and you could happily work with a 7950x + 192gb of ram, I would get that instead, its a good system and is usable for more then just pure number crunching.

K.O.Kiki

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121298463#Comment_121298463

EPYC 7532 is still Zen 2 (not Zen 3) at much lower clockspeeds than 5955WX Threadripper, and if anything goes FUBAR on a dual-CPU motherboard then OP will be out 3k + downtime.

Also enlightening to read in the thread that 7950X can only physically address 128GB - that's a bit confusing when the motherboard is rated for 192!

I'll leave an overkill (dual PCIe 5.0 drive + Titanium-rated PSU) build idea here: https://de.pcpartpicker.com/list/cXvPJy

Cuddlesworth

Normally I wouldn't ever point somebody towards the second hand market in China, but his use case is so unique.

OP's performance specs from earlier would imply that dual EPYC 7523s would complete simulations roughly 2.5 times faster then that of a 7950x or 5955WX(I can't see the 5955WX outperforming the 7950x3d by much, 8 channels and all). And that 3k is counting 1Tb of memory(which is nuts), which OP says is a significant limitation in itself. Everything so far has implied its pure cores and memory he needs. And yeah, the system will be a pure number cruncher, so you can drop gaming or using it as a desktop or insisting on Windows(Thread scheduling is much better on Linux). And its going to be putting out 700 watts of heat at least, which is not insignificant.

The build was only a example though, you can grab a EPYC 7551p(100), Supermicro H11SSL-i(350), cooler(50) and 512gb(750) of ram for roughly the price of a 5955WX itself, from AliExpress. Considering the use case, that there is a implication this is not revenue generating, it seems worth the risk.

I'm done with the other thing, but i eagerly await the tech articles where its discovered that AMD(Intel magically left the conversation), all the motherboard manufacturer's and Windows have all conspired to limit the industry to 128gig so that the 0.23% of consumers(Steam survey of over 64gb systems) are limited in their option of a additional 64gig of ram to the total. On desktop though, because laptop CPU's released after Microns 24gb memory chips hit the market, can scale to 256gb with the same memory controller according to AMD.

K.O.Kiki

https://www.notebookcheck.net/Dell-Precision-7875-high-end-workstation-in-review-AMD-Ryzen-Threadripper-PRO-7995WX-with-96-cores-and-Nvidia-RTX-6000.767022.0.html

New Dell Threadripper workstations.

ZingK

https://uk.pcmag.com/processors/149218/96-cores-one-chip-first-tests-amds-ryzen-threadripper-pro-7995wx-soars

Wrapping this up, here are the "consumer" non-Pro Threadripper 7000 X-series chips. AMD included MSRP pricing information on these new HEDT chips, which will be available at retail. The WX chips, according to AMD, will also be available on the open market.

https://www.techradar.com/pro/oh-hello-threadripper-pro-7995wx-amd-launches-worlds-fastest-desktop-cpu-ever-but-things-are-about-to-get-very-very-confusing-for-power-users

The apparently non-Pro new offerings (sporting 24 cores, 32 cores and 64 cores respectively) will be available for purchase from November 21 and will cost $1499, $2499 and $4999 respectively.

Cuddlesworth

The chips that allows 64gig DDR5 unreg have been produced by Micron, so expect AM5 and the equivalent Intel platforms to be supporting 256gig max early next year when they become available. Some Mobo makers have already announced support.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121248929#Comment_121248929

Is it useful to run concurrent simulations on different machines. Because then you could run multiple cheaper machines.

ZingK

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121534858#Comment_121534858

Thanks for the heads up on the DDR5 chips from Micron. I'm extremley keen to upgrade my workstation ASAP, but I'm a bit cautious about jumping in right away. I am slightly concerned about the new technologies, I'm inclined to wait until the first sets of motherboards and BIOS updates have been thoroughly tested and any initial bugs ironed out. I'm open to any advice too please.

ZingK

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121535089#Comment_121535089

I appreciate the suggestion to run concurrent simulations on different machines, and although it may make sense for some scenarios, it would not work for me. For my specific requirements, I'm aiming for a powerhouse workstation with 256GB+ RAM and a fast processor. I already have a setup for smaller simulations, but for the larger ones, I'm looking for a single, high-performance machine. As stated previously I am keen to try and use the newest tech available and any thoughts on configurations or builds that align with that goal would be highly appreciated! Thanks.

ZingK

I've been considering my budget for the workstation upgrade, and it seems that aiming for €3500 might be a bit unrealistic given the specifications and performance I'm looking for. After some reflection, I think it would be more practical to increase my budget to €6000 for now. I'm willing to stretch it a bit further if necessary, although not with immense enthusiasm. I view this upgrade as an investment in my productivity, and I believe the benefits will outweigh the initial cost. Any suggestions or insights on how to get the best value within this adjusted budget would be greatly appreciated! Thanks.

Spear

Storm Peak Threadripper Pro or non-Pro seems to be the only game now for HEDT. A 32 core one is half the price of a 36 core Xeon W9. It's a €1000+ board for either one as well.

Cuddlesworth

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121540011#Comment_121540011

Qualified kits from the vendor is usually the start. The issue with larger amounts of ram is that it gets harder to run them at "fast" speeds, it becomes very CPU/mobo dependent. So people complain they don't get high bandwidth and low timings, or get instability. But thats the trade off as the amount of memory increases.

You see that with the recommended specs, in a AM5 platform 2 sticks of single rank is recommended to be run at DDR5-5200 but 4 sticks of dual rank in a AM5 platform is recommended to be DDR5-3600. Thats not to say you can run them faster, thats just the bare minimum expected to just work.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121540023#Comment_121540023

Can you break up a simulation into smaller chunks and combine the results.

I'm flogging a dead horse I know.

ZingK

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121543854#Comment_121543854

No, that is not possible.

ZingK

https://www.howtogeek.com/system76-thelio-major-zen-4-threadripper/

https://system76.com/desktops/thelio-major

Premium

• 24-core AMD Threadripper 7960X
• 128 GB ECC DDR5 4800 MHz
• 2TB High-Performance PCIe 5.0 SSD storage
• NVIDIA GeForce RTX 4090 graphics
• Extra GPU cool air intake

Arriving Jan 18th!

I wonder how much something like this will cost me and when it would be available to buy in Europe? Or when I can build something similar and the estimated price of that?

I would clearly prefer something like this but no chance I can afford that:

Elite

• 64-core AMD Threadripper 7980X
• 256 GB ECC DDR5 4800 MHz
• 4TB High-Performance PCIe 5.0 SSD storage
• NVIDIA RTX A6000
• Extra GPU cool air intake

Arriving Jan 18th!

How is my €6000 budget looking here?

dexterden6

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121604278#Comment_121604278

Have you considered Dell precision?

ZingK

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121604356#Comment_121604356

Do you have any links, do not see any builds with AMD Ryzen Threadripper 7960X to 80X. I am not looking for the 7945WX.

ZingK

I found this though:

https://www.punchtechnology.co.uk/product/threadripper-7000-series-workstation/

https://www.punchtechnology.co.uk/product/threadripper-7000-series-workstation

Cuddlesworth

If your spending that amount of money, warranty and support level are important considerations. The likes of Dell/HP/Lenovo can have next business day support with a tech at your door with parts, but punch technology could take days to weeks to repair the system, involving shipping the entire box back and forth to the uk.

ZingK

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121605302#Comment_121605302

I was just excited to see a build I could customise, as could not find one for a long time, so shared it here. I thought I might also get some opinions and advice.

What you are saying makes sense, thanks a mil.

ZingK

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121249985#Comment_121249985

Based on some feedback, I am strongly considering going with something similar to this with a better GPU.

If anyone has anything to add, other suggestions for improvements or any feedback at all, please lmk.

Thanks for your time.

Spear

So that build will achieve the main goal of the large RAM needed, with a still decent level of CPU power. Since the GPU isn't as fundamental to the build, it can be sidestepped for now, or go with something like a 4070 Super which would still have decent power and keep the price within some restraint. Going whole hog on a 7xxx Threadripper Pro would double the price.

Obvious other caveats are to ensure a good size case with lots of fans to ensure good airflow and avoid lots of noise from it, given that it'll need to run long periods in your close proximity.

K.O.Kiki

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121604278#Comment_121604278

Prices from CaseKing.de with Irish VAT

• CPU: AMD Ryzen Threadripper 7960X 4,2 GHz (Storm Peak) Sockel sTR5 - boxed ohne Kühler - 1,632.11€
• CPU Cooler: NH-U14S TR5-SP6 CPU-Kühler - 140 mm - 134.27€
• Motherboard: ASUS Pro WS TRX50-Sage WiFi, AMD TRX50 Mainboard, Sockel sTR5, DDR5 - 1,033.51€
• RAM: Corsair Vengeance, DDR5-5200, Intel XMP 3.0, CL38 - 192 GB Quad-Kit, Schwarz - 2x 738.93€ = 1,477.86€
• Case: Lian Li LANCOOL 216 E-ATX - Schwarz - 103.26€
• PSU: be quiet! Straight Power 12 Netzteil 80 PLUS Platinum, ATX 3.0, PCIe 5.0 - 1000 Watt - 206.62€
• GPU: INNO3D GeForce RTX 4070 Twin X2, 12288 MB GDDR6X - 607.66€
• SSD: Lexar NM790 NVMe SSD, PCIe 4.0 M.2 Typ 2280 - 1 TB - 2x 83.62€ = 167.24€
• Total incl. shipping: 5,351.51€ 5,420.52
• Shipping: 19.99€
• ex-VAT: 4,406.93€
• VAT 23%: 1,013.59

All parts except the CPU cooler & RAM are in-stock - you can change for Noctua NH-D9 TR5-SP6 & the RGB kit if you don't want to wait a week / don't mind slightly higher noise levels.

*edit: changed case to Lian Li LANCOOL 216 for better E-ATX compatibility

DISREGARD until a suitable ECC Registered kit can be found

Spear

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121633873#Comment_121633873

Got a link for the RAM details? It needs to be ECC and registered for a Threadripper 7xxx to work. Older Threadrippers don't have that limitation.

K.O.Kiki

Oh.