Looking to build a 2nd PC Workstation Upgrade & Need 512GB RAM

ZingK

1. What is your budget? €3500

2. What will be the main purpose of the computer? I run simulations that require lots of RAM and CPU. The more RAM I have the bigger sims I can run, and the better the CPU the quicker my sims run. I need 512GB RAM and am unsure about what CPU, just know it needs to be the best I can get for my budget to allow me to work faster.

3. Do you need a copy of Windows? [Yes/No] I need Windows 11

4. Can you use any parts from an old computer? I am thinking of keeping my old PC as a 2nd PC so I can work faster using 2 PCs. So not really.

5. Do you need a monitor? Do not need help with this.

5a. If yes, what size do you need. Do not need help with this.

5b. If no, what resolution is your current monitor and do you plan to upgrade in the near future? Do not need help with this.

6. Do you need any of these peripherals? [Keyboard/Mouse/Wireless Card/Card Reader/Speakers/etc.] Do not need help with this.

7. Are you willing to try overclocking? No

8. How can you pay? PayPal /Debit Card/ Revolut

9. When are you purchasing? As soon as I know what I want and can get it for a decent price. 

10. If you need help building it, where are you based? Dublin 8

Spear

512GB of RAM means going Threadripper/Epyc or Xeon at that level. Do the parts have to be brand new, or is second hand/refurbished acceptable?

10-10-20

Don't forget to decide on whether you'll want to upgrade that memory in the future too as you could easily max-out the slots with 32GB DIMM's at a reasonable price, but 64GB DIMM's might only leave you with a limited upgrade path. For example:

On the CPU front, on Intel you have from 12 to 56 cores available... need to decide how many cores you want as it will affect the budget significantly.

ZingK

To be perfectly honest I do not have much of a clue on what I want or need as have not done the research yet apart from looking at some motherboards with 512GB Capacity. I thought I would ask here to give me some direction before I went searching. I am getting the feeling I need to increase my budget and am willing to stretch a bit if necessary as I may have no other option? I think I want everything new.

10-10-20

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121248929#Comment_121248929

What boards did you find which support 512GB so far?

As Spear says with Threadripper/Epyc or Xeon, you're into professional or enterprise-level hardware when you want to go to 512GB as the memory which I pasted in are enterprise RDIMM's with ECC (error correction code). They are a price premium as it's high-end stuff. If that's not what you're aiming for ( with a budget of 3,500), then I'm off the mark.

ZingK

It has not been easy, I thought I had one https://www.custompc.ie/catalog/product/view/id/4728287/?gclid=Cj0KCQjw4bipBhCyARIsAFsieCy4FJ2tVWpN6qFenOfodDf6_tNeabpgh9TG13HSpOTKJPrzvOZXA9saAsCdEALw_wcB but it turns out that is 256 and there is this one https://www.memoryc.ie/25586-asus-workstation-pro-se-intel-c422-ddr4-sdram-motherboard.html?fc=IE&gad=1&gclid=Cj0KCQjw4bipBhCyARIsAFsieCzKSVe3LTF6fHKI7LmLPdgpUPJKpLGsulhmGOabPpGXXdOxsJfPxgUaAnEeEALw_wcB

512GB was the dream scenario but I did not realise that 512GB motherboards were so uncommon. 384GB or 256GB may have to do me. They will be a significant upgrade over the 64GB and old processor (AMD Ryzen 7 1700 Eight-Core Processor 3.00 GHz) I am working with now.

If you guys can recommend a workstation build for a 384GB or 256GB with the best CPU for my budget, that would be highly appreciated. I would like to review and study your suggestions to put me on the right path of what I want to get.

Thanks for your time, much appreciated.

10-10-20

You can get 512GB of memory, but I think you'll be looking at a price of around 15 to 20k for the system.

More in the consumer-space, the highest range i9 CPU (i9-10920X) is limited to 256GB, as far as I can see.

Have a play around here under the fixed Precision workstation section and see what budget range and config you end up in:

https://www.dell.com/en-ie/shop/scc/sr/workstations/precision-desktops

10-10-20

Oh and look at M.2 NVMe drives too - you'll benefit from a very fast drive here if the modeling application pages to disk (supports virtual memory). The faster the better in that respect. You'll need two really as you'll need to have them in a mirror.

Spear

As mentioned, the prior Intel HEDT X299 platform can reach 256GB of RAM. Parts can still be obtained new, they're still costly, but better than the full enterprise stuff. Once you pass into the enterprise grade domain, the price just skyrockets. Plain Threadrippers max out at 256GB too, with the Pro variant needed for more.

ZingK

Wow, that is expensive. I underestimated the price I would be paying for this set up by a good bit.

Considering RAM and CPU are the most important factors for me to help me work faster. What do you reccomend, or is the best way for me to proceed, to build an upgraded PC Workstation for €3500 - €5000? Would there be any benefit in waiting till after Christmas to purchase it? 256GB RAM seems like the number now and might even have to be lower.

10-10-20

What CPU and memory do you have on the current system?

Another option would be to buy a refurb'd branded workstation with a mid-range Xeon or a high-end i9 with a tiny bit of memory and go that route by upgrading the memory. I see lots of options that way. Example here:

https://www.refurbed.ie/p/dell-precision-7820-tower/39957b/

4x64GB memory would be around EUR 3,200 for that.

ZingK

AMD Ryzen 7 1700 Eight-Core Processor 3.00 GHz

Custom-gigabyte-AB350-Gaming 3 Gigabyte AB350-Gaming 3 x 1 motherboard

Corsair Vengeance RGB PRO SL 32 GB (4 x 16 GB) DDR4 3200 MHz C16 and 64.0 GB RAM

GTX 1050 2gb

Samsung 970 EVO Plus 2 TB PCIe NVMe M.2 Internal Solid State Drive (SSD) (MZ-V7S2T0) & another old Toshiba 2TB Disk Drive for backups including some external drives for backups too.

This is my current PC which works great and I will be keeping it as a 2nd PC.

K.O.Kiki

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058318492/looking-to-build-a-2nd-pc-workstation-upgrade-need-512gb-ram

PCPartPicker Part List: https://de.pcpartpicker.com/list/RhdQPF

CPU Cooler: Noctua NH-U14S TR4-SP3 82.52 CFM CPU Cooler (€99.90 @ Amazon Deutschland)

Storage: Western Digital Black SN770 1 TB M.2-2280 PCIe 4.0 X4 NVME Solid State Drive (€60.90 @ Amazon Deutschland)

Storage: Western Digital Black SN770 1 TB M.2-2280 PCIe 4.0 X4 NVME Solid State Drive (€60.90 @ Amazon Deutschland)

Video Card: Gigabyte EAGLE GeForce RTX 3060 12GB 12 GB Video Card (€306.31 @ Amazon Deutschland)

Case: Montech AIR 903 BASE ATX Mid Tower Case (€82.89 @ Caseking)

Power Supply: be quiet! Straight Power 12 1000 W 80+ Platinum Certified Fully Modular ATX Power Supply (€207.90 @ Amazon Deutschland)

Custom: ASUS Pro WS WRX80E-Sage SE WIFI (€791.90) (Amazon DE)

Custom: AMD Ryzen Threadripper PRO 5955WX, 16C/32T, 4.00-4.50GHz (€1155.99) (Amazon DE)

Custom: Samsung RDIMM, DDR4-3200, CL22, ECC reg, 512GB (64GB x8) (€1079.20) (Caseking)

Total: €3845.89

Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available

Generated by PCPartPicker 2023-10-17 15:27 CEST+0200

This is as close to 3'500 as I could get.

I'm in D8 😎

10-10-20

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121249985#Comment_121249985

Pretty good! Those RDIMM's are a good price.

K.O.Kiki

Quick update - spend an extra 20 to upgrade PSU from 850 Platinum to 1000 Platinum.

Spear

That wrx80 build is a decent path. It's still a current system, has the RAM capacity and a solid core count. The other options are older tech or refurbished tech, or going overboard on costs, so it's a good balance.

ZingK

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121249985#Comment_121249985

Thanks a million for that, I can try and go for something like this.

I guess I will try and see what type of prices I get for someone to me build something close to this.

Do you have any reccomendations of places to get something like this built? Or I will just do my own research online?

Spear

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121250133#Comment_121250133

I've no problem building it for you, but it's pretty simple to assemble. The only unusual part is getting the CPU in the socket right, as they have a torx screwdriver to ensure even pressure. The rest is just slotting the bits in or screwing bits together.

K.O.Kiki

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121250050#Comment_121250050

Yeah, the only caveat being that they're Zen 3 so they can't support AVX-512. If those instruction sets are important, you'd be looking at AMD Ryzen 9 7950X (16-cores/32-threads) but with no core count upgrade path until Ryzen 8000/9000 series (if ever) and 192GB RAM max; or Intel HEDT which is either much older, or vastly over budget.

edit

Or wait for Zen 4 "Storm Peak" (will be expensive though).

Beta Ray Bill

I have to ask the question... what type of sims are are running that require 512GB of RAM?

Even if you managed to find a board that had enough slots for 512GB of RAM, I think you'd run into CPU bottle necks, You'd be looking at a multiple CPU setup to leverage that amount of RAM, OR You'll need to buy a Xeon or Epyc CPU (These are server chips)

How did you come to the figure of 512GB?

What hardware are you currently using for your simulations?

ZingK

I am not sure if this is any use but these are an example of results of different processors used for the application I am using:

1.54 mio h/s, Hetzner RX220, Ampere ® Altra ® Q80-30, Linux

1.36 mio h/s, Hetzner AX161, AMD EPYC™ 7502P, Linux

0.92 mio h/s, Hetzner AX102, Ryzen 7950x3d, Windows Server 2022

0.73 mio h/s, Ryzen 5900x, Linux

0.66 mio h/s, Ryzen 5900x, Windows 10

I was advised 512GB RAM being ideal by the application support but I can use 64GB as I am currently using to 128GB to 256GB etc. The more RAM I have the better the sims I can run and the better the processor the faster time they take to complete.

I was just looking to upgrade my current system to work faster as my sims are taking longer than I would like. I can still work like this and just run sims during the night and extract data the next day but sometimes I need to run sims during the day and need them ASAP. So was just looking to upgrade my current system.

If I got a better PC with 256GB Ram I would consider it. For now I am considering building something similar to what has been kindly reccomended by K.O.Kiki

Spear

Do you know if AVX512 instructions are supported in your software? It might be worth researching that aspect. They could offer significant speed improvements if they're an option, but it would also influence your choices.

ZingK

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121250280#Comment_121250280

No but I can ask them, they are quite good with feedback. Is there any other specific questions I should ask them to help me build a better PC to use specifically with their software in mind?

Thanks a mil for all your help, always.

ZingK

I asked the question:

Does it support AVX512 instructions for enhanced performance? Are there any specific system requirements or considerations related to AVX512 support that I should be aware of?

Let me see what they say. If there are any more questions I need to ask please lmk.

Going for a walk, back later, thanks a mil.

ZingK

Does it support AVX512 instructions for enhanced performance? Are there any specific system requirements or considerations related to AVX512 support that I should be aware of?

“We don't specifically use that, but you will still get some benefits due to JVM auto vectorization”

That is the feedback I got.

K.O.Kiki

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121250525#Comment_121250525

https://itnext.io/auto-vectorization-how-to-get-beaten-by-compiler-optimization-java-jit-vector-api-92c72b97fba3

I'm not an expert, but it doesn't look like it's worth considering AVX-512 so.

Cordell

Not necessarily, what that article shows is that vectorization improvements (up to 2x) can be wasted when there is a bigger bottleneck - when the CPU spends 90% of the cycles on I/O improving the speed of the 10% spent on compute won't result in any tangible improvements. The code they used is too simple, in order to get improvements the split between compute and I/O needs to lean the other way.

ricimaki

Given the requirements, I wonder if this particular case is better served by renting compute power?

How many hours per week will you be running the simulations for? If it is constant usage, buying a PC will probably make more sense, but if not, it could take a couple of years before you'd spend €3500 on rental.

For example, you can rent a 24 core Xeon server with 256GB RAM and 8TB storage for around €0.50 per hour here. There are probably some extra charges with that, but it would take over 40 weeks of continuous usage before spending €3500 on it.

ZingK

I run simulations almost every day for many hours. I considered renting and know some people that do but prefer buying the best PC I can for approx €3500 to €4000. I need to upgrade my PC anyway and having 2 PCs will have benefits for me too. I am considering all the suggestions made here and going to review my best options as soon as I get time. Thanks.

Spear

If nothing else, please do consider all the options carefully on this one. This is a lot of money to go spending, and I can't imagine anyone here wants to see you rush into it and have it go wrong.

ricimaki

Something I did just remember which could catch you out if you're not aware, is if you'll need a Pro or Enterprise version of Windows, otherwise you'll be limited to 128GB RAM accessible.

Also, triple check compatibility between the RAM modules, motherboard and CPU. ECC ram can be finicky to get working.

Having a quick look on ebay, there seems to be some bargains (relatively speaking) for slightly older server hardware. For example, This one has 2x 22 core processors and 512GB RAM for ~€3000.