Rugby world cup post mortem

aloooof

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121308615#Comment_121308615

Sexton didn't need to be a running threat, in the same way he didn't need to be in Paris when he made the drop to win the Slam.

A 1 point deficit and a 4 point deficit are very, very different scenarios.

AbusesToilets

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121308713#Comment_121308713

That doesn't change the point. Sexton didn't need to carrying the ball to the line vs NZ, no more than he did vs France.

ersatz

People really are getting their knickers in a twist. I don't see anyone slamming Sexton or blaming him, he was wrecked and the argument is that Farrell should have replaced him. If we could see it he could see it and NZ certain could see it. Interestingly in the final Foster rolled the dice and brought both Smith and Mo'unga off, while Smith had been one of their best players in the match. Instead of that Farrell selected Hansen to start which was a mistake as he barely showed up off his wing before he went down with the same injury, and then left Sexton on who was struggling. Farrell has plenty of credit in the bank but too many people are becoming fundamentalists about this. We lost the match, if different decisions had been made we may have won.

ulsteru20s

I think having Crowley on the bench at all if Sexton is unsubbable is a mistake. Take an extra forward and take the chance he doesn’t get hurt. If Crowley can’t help you win in the last 15, then its game over if sexton got hurt anyway.

Its basically 100% a mistake imo either way. No one on the bench in modern rugby shouldn’t see the field. Its a 23 man game.

Crowley’s profile as a sub is also made for that kind of game. He’s an athletic 10 who can run. In a situation where you are trying to break down a defense and score tries, he needs to be on the field.

Neil3030

How high are Leinster fans on Cormac Foley, he looked pretty tidy against Sharks.

MattressRick

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121307293#Comment_121307293

I know a few that travelled over for a few Ireland matches and it sounded like a lot of gobshites, like our best soccer supporters in the world. It sounded

phog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121308615#Comment_121308615

I'm not pinning the loss on anyone, I'm arguing that Farrell should have tried the one thing he had left to try, a fresh pair of legs, an outhalf for an outhalf.

Read the thread when we had 10-15 minutes left, posters saying Sexton was out of his feet.

Fwiw, pointing a finger, isn't really marshalling a team, certainly not when comparing it to what we know Sexton can do.

He was ineffective & no threat to NZ defence.

twinytwo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121308742#Comment_121308742

Even the dog in the street could see Sexton needed to come off, he had nothing left in the tank. As the change was never made we will never know if it could have won us the game. We needed a try, in a QF against NZ. To say the 10 didn't need to be operating at 100% is crazy. We went 30+ phases, so what? We could have gone 100 phases and it wouldn't matter if we didn't score.

The game against France we different as you know. We only had to set up a drop goal and that day he managed to put it over, he could have just as easily have missed.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121308972#Comment_121308972

This is sad in the extreme.

Just because posters say he 'was out on his feet' doesn't make it so.

The team were moving forward in the phase. To say that wasn't pressuring NZ is rubbish. You could see it plainly.

What they were playing for was to get to the line or to win a penalty and maul over the lineout. That you could also see.

Farrell would have been happy with the forward movement and I think that set of experienced players was the right one for that situation. I could see them make it to the line if they kept going.

I didn't see the fact that a young inexperienced player would fail to make a fairly routine clearout nor Wayne Barnes ignore a fairly blatant no release.

The sad thing is that had it played out differently there wouldn't be a word about Sexton and he'd have gone on to play in the semi and final if we'd won.

The knives are out though.

Akrasia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121309155#Comment_121309155

Sad in the extreme?

If Jimmy O Brien wasn't playing I doubt we would have gotten past the half way line. He, as a young inexperienced player did way more to advance us up the pitch than sexton did,in no small part because he was fresh, and most of the players on both teams were fatigued by that stage.

You're tying yourself in knots here.

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121309155#Comment_121309155

So you are telling us that a 38 year old player who is on one of the most draining positions on the field was as fresh as a daisy. You would want to watch the last twenty minutes of the match. I guarantee you the tracker on his back would tell the publisher xact same story. He was waddling from ruck to ruck if he got involved in a ruck he struggled to get back into position afterwards. As he could not make loop runs or get involved in second phases of a line break NZ did not need to mark him. Either could he risk making a line break as the ball wound be ripped off him.

On Crowley's inexperience he has ten caps, he has won a URC final where he scored the winning drop goal. He is well capable of making line breaks as he plays center at times for Munster. He should have been put on for the final 10-15 minutes. Wait a few years until a player or coach involved writes a book. Neither Farrell or Sexton will ever admit it but leaving him.on the field was the wrong decision.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121309254#Comment_121309254

Not what I saw. I saw the ball being distributed and an inexorable push up the pitch which was increasingly panicking the NZers.

I saw it as a conscious play that required discipline and concentration, hardly the preserve of 'tired' 'out on it's feet' minds.

It came to an end partly because of the lack of commitment by young inexperienced McCarthy, in not clearing out decisively when he had a clear opportunity to do it and a missed no release from Whitelock.

JOB played his part in the phase, no doubt.

Akrasia

NZ were relatively happy to allow us march up into their 22 knowing a penalty was not enough to lose.

Getting 30 metres from 50 metres to the 22 is relatively easy. The final 22 is where most attacks fail.

JOB was extremely influential in that attack, turning up repeatedly on both sides of the pitch and injecting pace where others were tiring.

Sexton tried his best, but he was wrecked at that point his movement was slow and laboured. He was miles from his best and Farrell made a big mistake in leaving him on the pitch for the final 20 minutes

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121309342#Comment_121309342

I disagree.

Sexton was pivotal IMO and the ball moved through him all the way up the pitch. And I know a penalty wasn't enough, the goal was to either get to the line and score or get a penalty and maul over the resulting lineout and not make the mistake Kelliher had made earlier.

Easy to say the push was 'easy' now in hindsight and because it suits you.

That's all you are doing here, picking out stuff that suits the agenda.

If it was the same situation again, I would back experience over fresh legs everyday of the week. I am sure a professional coach would too.

Jump_In_Jack

Just to make the point, as sickening a moment as it was for Irish fans, I think Whitelock was perfectly fine in his steal at the death. I think the carry was very poor from Kelleher, he seemed to dive as he was being hit by Retallick and then he went straight to ground and he tried to squirm or roll a bit on the ground but Whitelock pinned him and got over the ball expertly. I also don't really blame McCarthy in this instance because when a carrier goes down that quickly it's virtually impossible to clear out quickly enough, it plays right into the defender's hands because Kelleher ended up precisely under Whitelock's feet. Kelleher simply had to pump on his feet another second or two and resist the urge to drop to the floor and by then I'd expect McCarthy and Doris to have been able to latch on and win that ruck.

AbusesToilets

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121308972#Comment_121308972

Yes, but he wasn't just pointing a finger was he? He was receiving the ball first almost every phase, dictating the direction of the attack l. Not sure how much of the match you watch, but most of the time during games, he receives the ball and passes it out, without making a run himself. There was no difference in that last sequence. Everyone was tired, but you want to make out that Sexton was an exceptional burden and dead weight.

I wouldn't have minded if Crowley came on, but I also trust Farrell in his choice. France also kept DuPont on til the death, despite having a more capable back up than Crowley would be for Sexton. In the toughest of spots, coaches want their best players on the field.

phog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121310019#Comment_121310019

Ah stop, watch those phases again. He is not remotely near what he normally offers in attack. He's literally shovelling the ball onto the next player, any player.

Bass Reeves

Warren Gatland has named his greatest Lions 15. Johnny Sexton make out as out. However he clarifies why he did not take him to SA in 2021.

https://m.independent.ie/sport/rugby/warren-gatland-why-theres-no-place-for-brian-odriscoll-on-my-greatest-lions-team/a1705629182.html

Here is his reasoning

"I had sound reasons at the time based on concerns he would be able to withstand the training and fixtures schedule. Analysis of the players’ data showed he had not played games on three consecutive weekends since 2018 because of knocks and rest periods for Leinster or Ireland. It is still a decision I wonder if I got right, given how he finished his career with Ireland"

I say if you asked any top coach they would all have subbed him with 15 minutes to go

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121310058#Comment_121310058

If the goal was to get the ball as far forward as possible, and then strike or win a penalty/lineout, and I think it was, then that is exactly how you would do it.

Controlled, disciplined play with no risks until the time was right.

Try see it from a different perspective because they do exist.

AbusesToilets

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121310058#Comment_121310058

Yes, watch those phases again. See how everyone is much diminished from their best. Yet they still managed to go right down the pitch.

You're taking our failure to win and working backwards to castigate Sexton. If we'd won, the narrative would be how we gutted it out, his experience and toughness. Crowley comes on and fails, he wasn't ready, moment too big for him. If we win, he's the Messiah. It's such a self serving position, and based entirely in your imagination.

phog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121310229#Comment_121310229

our failure to win and working backwards to castigate Sexton

Don't know why you persist with this line, get Sexton out of your head.

I and others, including posters during the game (before the result was known) are/were saying we had a tired 38yo outhalf on the field and we had an outhalf on the bench. They should have been swapped.

AbusesToilets

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121310281#Comment_121310281

The narrative has stretched from Sexton was dead on his feet ( he wasn't) to Sexton was **** ( he wasn't). Perhaps Crowley could've been a winning change up, could also as easily not been. I could point out that in previous high stakes games vs NZ, Farrell trusted Carbery to come on, but seemingly didn't trust Crowley. So obviously this shows a deficiency on Crowley's part, right?

You're building an argument out of nothing

phog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121310319#Comment_121310319

stretched from Sexton was dead on his feet ( he wasn't) to Sexton was **** ( he wasn't).

Take that up with the posters saying he was **** Btw, he was dead on his feet. Watch him after the rucks he got involved in, slowly getting back into position.

I'm saying he wasn't up the standard we needed rom an outhalf, that he was out on his feet and as we had a sub on the bench, that a substitution should have been made.

jacothelad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121304754#Comment_121304754

You haven't missed anything. It's a load of tripe.

AbusesToilets

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121310371#Comment_121310371

A substitution could have been made* No guarantee that it would have been anymore successful. Personally I don't think an energetic Crowley would be a decisive factor, given the overall exhaustion of the whole team. Unless you think Crowley would have singlehandedly cut through the NZ defense to score a wonder solo try, he'd still be relying on the rest of the team to execute. It would still have been Beirne falling over into contact, still be Ringrose ignoring an overlap, still be McCarthy messing up a clear out. Providing of course that he was as capable as Sexton at organizing an attack to get into the NZ 22, which is debatable.

phog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121310780#Comment_121310780

*should have been made

ulsteru20s

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121310217#Comment_121310217

Playing for a penalty in that spot is tough sledding. Refs hate to give penalties there either way. You could see it in the 30 phases. I think both teams should have had at least one each before whitelock.

ulsteru20s

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121310780#Comment_121310780

Ah, Crowley is exactly the kind of player who could make a line break. So, yea that's a good argument for him being on the field.

GreeBo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121309370#Comment_121309370

What did he do that was pivotal? I didn't see him make any decisions or any movement whatsoever. I think he at most to 2 steps before passing each time.

Nobody is slating him by the way, people are saying he was too tired to be as effective as he normally can be. Thats not slating the player, in fact its not slating anyone, its saying that the decision should have been taken by the coach to put on fresh legs at that stage.

AbusesToilets

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121310981#Comment_121310981

We made line breaks with Sexton, manufactured a clear overlap, which Ringrose blew. We didn't lack for opportunity. If we'd been stuck in our half, crashing against a NZ wall, then this argument would hold more water. As it stands, it's just retroactive speculation. Maybe things go better with Crowley, but beyond that it's lacking in any substance