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Rugby world cup post mortem

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  • Registered Users Posts: 9,997 ✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    You say he was mediocre, without offering any examples of how. He was key to us fighting our way back into the game, where we were Jordie Barrett's thigh away from taking the lead. You're looking for a stick to beat Farrell with, regardless of the evidence.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 25,560 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    MOD - Please avoid accusations of provincial bias



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,014 ✭✭✭✭Neil3030


    Leaving Sexton, Earls and Healy out, here are the age profiles (in 2027) of the remaining 31 players from the squad:

    Starting with the areas we look the strongest. We should be fine at fullback and at hooker.

    Funny how time moves on too; we were always worried about producing locks. But I think this is an area of relative comfort for us. Ryan and McCarthy will still be around. Baird might also develop to be an option there. Munster have very high hopes for Edogbo and Ahern. Leinster also have Deeny coming through. One of Henderson and/or Beirne might also be around, though I'd be more skeptical about the latter, given how much punishment he takes in games. Four years to get the lineout sorted too.

    Again, funny about time. Not so long ago it seemed as though Irish rugby had so many backrow forwards we didn't know what to do with them. But you can imagine POM, vdF and Conan will each struggle to make 2027. That's a heck of a lot of leadership and workrate that will need replacing. That said, Munster have very high hopes for Quinn and Gleeson. Kendellen, Hodnett and Coombes will also be looking to step up to international level. Less sure about what Leinster have coming through here? Connors, Deegan, Penny and Soroka all have the right age profile. Connors was certainly in the conversation once upon a time. You can imagine Cian Prendergast will also be a key player for us going forward. We should be OKish here?

    Wings will look completely different in 2027, as I'd say Lowe will almost certainly be gone. But we could see JOB being deployed more there, and you'd hope that someone out of Daly, Nash or Baloucoune can step up. Shay McCarthly looks electric. One or two newbies together with Hansen and I think we should be fine. Would be great if someone develops into a legit kicking option (outside of JOB).

    Between Crowley, the Byrnes and Prendergast, we should have decent competition at outhalf. The key here will be to resist temptations to compare players to Sexton, though I fear this might be inevitable.

    Loosehead might be OK, if Paddy McCarthy comes along in time. Loughman will also be peaking as a prop in the coming four years. If Porter is still near his current level it's more likely that we'll be OK here. But there is risk.

    Tighthead seems more of a lottery. We could theoretically still have both Furlong and Bealham, but just as likely have neither. Furlong's declining form is a worry in any case.

    Midfield is become an area of greater concern. I think we'll be lucky if we still have two of those four centres playing at the highest level in 2027. In all likelihood only Ringrose will still be around and we'll see a good bit of overhaul here. Leinster seem high on Osbourne and Frawley might also be someone who can step up. Frisch will hopefully get some international minutes soon. Much is made about replacing Sexton, but if both Henshaw and Aki need replacing, they are comparably sized shoes to fill.

    Scrum-half is also a worry. Murray will almost certainly be retired and JGP's game is so reliant on his pace that at 35 he may not be around either. Blade will be 33, possibly an option. Otherwise... all eyes on PFP?

    tl:dr

    Grand: Fullback, hooker, locks, backrow (probably)

    Meeeh: Outhalf, loosehead, tighthead, wings

    AAARRGH: Midfield, scrumhalf

    (Usual caveats about it being hard to predict things four years out, there are always bolters out of the blue, etc. etc.)



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,202 ✭✭✭Dubinusa


    Cathal Forde could be our 12. Superb looking prospect. Osborne also, although he could take the 13 jumper.

    I'd like to think that one of Niall Murray or Ahern can make a case to get into the squad. Edogbo looks a beast as does Joe McCarthy. I doubt Henderson will be around come 27. A lot of mileage and his injury profile. Beirne could also be gone. James Ryan could still be around, depending on his concussion problems.

    Blindside is loaded. Baird, Quinn, Deegan, Coombes, Sheridan to a lesser degree and Cian Prendergast. Not forgetting Soroka.

    8 will be either Doris or Gleeson, imo. Conan won't be involved. Imo. Kendellen could be an option also, or Culhane.

    9. Is a problem. I think it will be Casey or Blade. Maybe Doak?

    Wings are fairly strong. Hanson; Stocker, JOB, TOB, Larmour, Kilgallen, Nash and Balacoune. Outside prospects, Aitzol King, Josh O Connor.

    I reckon we'll be stronger in 4 years time.



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,014 ✭✭✭✭Neil3030


    I won't lie, Dubinusa, I'm a little disappointed this wasn't a 1500-word thesis on the emerging props!



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  • Registered Users Posts: 8,202 ✭✭✭Dubinusa




  • Registered Users Posts: 17,014 ✭✭✭✭Neil3030


    Oh I know you can !! 😂

    (You'd struggle to keep it under 1500 words!)



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,788 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo




  • Registered Users Posts: 17,014 ✭✭✭✭Neil3030


    Wouldn't be the worst move if JOB will be deployed more on the wing.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 25,560 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Don't know if we can read much into what Leinster are doing at the moment. Obviously Keenan will absolutely lock down the 15 position once he's back.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,225 ✭✭✭nc6000


    No, there isn't an actual award for best fans. 🙄



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,033 ✭✭✭✭Foxtrol



    You asked me what I wanted to include as 'top tier' yesterday and I gave you clear guidance. Don't get mad with me because you can do your own research without messing it up.

    I was actually being kind with the broader description than previous, as by my original description Crowley has never played a match at club level at 10, despite all his Irish caps.

    Your original point still contradicts what you're now saying.

    Nah. Farrell has regularly picked guys who weren’t first choice for the Province, so wouldn’t have had the same exposure at the top level.

    It wouldn’t have been anything new to do the same with Crowley.

    You've now changed your tune and accepting that Crowley did receive similar treatment than the other players.

    There was no way Farrell could have given Crowley earlier exposure without treating Crowley different than even the examples you've given, it would be even more extreme given the position he plays. The timing of Crowley's development isn't the fault of Farrell, it is likely just bad timing but if anything could have been changed it is Munster giving him more exposure at OH in top tier matches earlier. I don't see why you're circling the wagons and being defensive about that fact.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,202 ✭✭✭Dubinusa




  • Registered Users Posts: 27,088 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    Well only one of them was a 38 year old playmaker who wans't making any plays for the last 10-15, he was walking and just shipping the ball on when it came to him.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,248 Mod ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    You asked me what I wanted to include as 'top tier' yesterday and I gave you clear guidance. Don't get mad with me because you can do your own research without messing it up.

    Ha. I mean, it's not my fault you want to completely change your definition of "top tier" because it no longer suits your argument. (It's also kinda hilarious to me that you now think all Super Rugby games are top tier, but zero URC games are. I can't possibly think why....)

    As for this...

    Your original point still contradicts what you're now saying.

    This will be the 3rd time I'll have clarified this for you:

    It wouldn’t have been anything new to do the same with Crowley... in the QF

    The whole context of the discussion with regards Crowley, in a thread titled "world cup post mortem" has been about the QF. There's zero contradiction here. I didn't think I'd need to spell it out tbh, but there ya go...

    I mean, it was pretty well know that Farrell gave plenty of guys (including Crowley) a go, independent of their Provincial experience or pecking order.



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,997 ✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    Yet we managed to march down the field into their 22, only for a poor clear out and some dubious officiating by Barnes to end the game. Funny that.



  • Registered Users Posts: 27,088 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    We marched down the field despite Sexton, not because of what he did. He shipped the ball on every time (bar the dodgy chip)

    Do you think Crowley wouldn't have been able to do anything that Sexton did in the last 10-15?



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,997 ✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    Of course, everyone but Sexton was playing well. Pathetic stuff. I don't think Crowley would have had the composure necessary to marshal the team under that pressure. He doesn't have the experience yet.



  • Registered Users Posts: 23,778 ✭✭✭✭phog


    You keep missing the point.

    For the 3rd time (today) the reason Sexton in being mentioned, is (a) he's 38 and was visible wrecked and (b) we had a replacement for him on the bench.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,647 ✭✭✭Jump_In_Jack


    Marshalling the team, what a load of BS. They were the top ranked team, what kind of nonsense is this about having to marshal them? Which players needed to be told what to do? This is typical made up nonsense to build some sort of case to make Johnny irreplaceable. Pathetic. He had a few very poor contributions, he offered zero threat, he shovelled the ball onto the nearest man and let them do all the work. He literally did nothing that any other out half couldn’t have done and certainly Crowley would have given the backline another running threat.

    It wasn’t the only selection mistake, starting Hansen half-injured was as bad. Why they couldn’t have started O’Brien with McCloskey at 23 I don’t know. An injection of Crowley and McCloskey with 20 to go should have been in the game plan. Opportunity lost.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 23,778 ✭✭✭✭phog


    Sexton marshalled no one in those phases, anyone that watched it can see that, he receives the ball, he passes the ball and that's it, offered nothing in attack, NZ defence didn't have to concern themselves with him. There's a few hairy moments, not just from him where the wrong player got the ball and we were lucky not to be turned over earlier in the sequence.



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,209 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    He positioned the Munster team to score a drop goal in the dying minutes to win the URC final just a few months before.

    Slava Ukrainii



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,423 ✭✭✭monkeybutter


    The game was lost in the first 20 mins

    Too much energy spent trying to overturn that

    4 years of good play, 20 mins of bad play

    They were never scoring a try at the end

    One mistake Game over, gives the defense so much energy

    They should have grounded that tru



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,209 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    And the reason we had a problem in the first twenty minutes is either JS decision making in not going to put points on the board or his fear he would not put them over

    Slava Ukrainii



  • Registered Users Posts: 539 ✭✭✭Mr Disco


    Stop making ridiculous excuses. The sexton situation in that QF was beyond farcical



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,423 ✭✭✭monkeybutter




  • Registered Users Posts: 23,778 ✭✭✭✭phog


    We played 15 v 14 for 20 minutes and never once led in the game, yet, we thought with tired legs we'd clinch it.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,423 ✭✭✭monkeybutter


    The game should have been won with the held up try

    No one is looking to win it like that



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,997 ✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    Clearly you don't understand what it means to marshall people. It's not leading the charge into contact, it's about organizing folks, directing the attack, which Sexton absolutely did. You want to hang the loss on Farrell not taking off Sexton, despite the evidence that the team managed to execute a 30+ phase attack at the death. Sexton didn't need to be a running threat, in the same way he didn't need to be in Paris when he made the drop to win the Slam. We engineered an overlap that Ringrose blew, we forced NZ into their 22 where Barnes made a questionable call against us.

    Your argument slamming Sexton falls down in the face of what happened on the pitch.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 9,997 ✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    What's farcical is folks slating him, despite the fact that he led the team in fighting back from a deficit, to where we would've gone in front if not for Kelleher **** up a simple push over.



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