Rugby world cup post mortem

Podge_irl · 30-10-2023 9:11pm

I really couldn't care less about what happened in Irish rugby prior to about 06 because we were chronically ****. If the point is that we were crap from 87-03 world cups then...yeah, we were. Big whoop.

Foxtrol · 30-10-2023 9:15pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121302840#Comment_121302840

If anything this makes our improvement to be seen as one of the best teams in the world even more impressive

ersatz · 30-10-2023 9:24pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121302805#Comment_121302805

You have to take your digs. He's right, there are only a handful for teams capable of performing at the WC and Ireland is/should be one of them but we have decades of failing to do that. No excuses.

Foxtrol · 30-10-2023 9:42pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121302898#Comment_121302898

There are usually only a handful of teams capable of performing in any tournament.

Take his Gaelic Football, over the same number of competitions there has only been 6 different counties to make the final - rugby has 5 countries to make their final.

There are valid digs that should be taken and then there are cheap shots.

ersatz · 30-10-2023 10:37pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121302979#Comment_121302979

I think you've clarified his point even better than I did. Only 6 different counties make the GAA final...imagine if there was a county team in the country ranked number one for nearly two years, in the top 5 for many more years who never made the semi...Look, people from other codes or people who don't like rugby have been given all the ammo they need by the team failing to make it beyond the 1/4s AGAIN. It was always going to be like this. Imagine if you didn't like rugby and you have it shoved down your throat a couple of times a year and then for 2 months during the WC where Ireland are favourites and they blow it, like they do every time. You'd be doing jigs and told you sos too. It is not a cheap shot. Leinster in Europe ffs! Best response would be to win a grand slam this season and make it to a semi or final next time. Until we do expect more of this.

FrancieBrady · 30-10-2023 10:41pm

I’m a big fan of the GAA and Pat would be one of those GAA people who couldn’t ever resist a dig at another county, province or sport.

Being a troll is part of his living like Brolly or as George Hook was on rugby punditry.

Foxtrol · 30-10-2023 11:09pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121303186#Comment_121303186

You're doing the same thing as Spillane seems to be - twisting time whenever it suits.

Given that WC cycles are every 4 years, if you're translating it to GAA terms then it is like a team being favourites for 6 months and failing to make it to the semis. That is still failure but nothing to beat them about, especially if they are a smaller county with no history of winning the All Ireland and who were a complete basket case just 5 years ago but over the time since has shown a lot of improvement.

This is veering off topic but Rugby isn't 'shoved down throats' close to as much as the GAA is. The mere existence of rugby is enough to inflame certain folks from other codes and they absolutely take cheap shots every chance they get. For example, Rugby being played in only a few countries is constantly held up as a negative but absolutely no issue and it actually seen as a positive that the sport they cherish is only really being played in one and when they try to compete with those from similar codes it tends to end up in absolute embarrassment.

ersatz · 30-10-2023 11:15pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121303299#Comment_121303299

You're taking digs at GAA now for not being international ffs. Some people don't like rugby and they will criticise it given the chance, so what? The team's record in the WC is pathetic and its an open goal for the likes of Spillane, its sport! Jaysus.

aloooof · 30-10-2023 11:15pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121302571#Comment_121302571

Taking just the first two, from what I see Sheehan played 2 international games (AI Japan & Arg) before his first ERC match, not the 7 you've claimed, and Doris had 6 ERC games before his first Irish cap.

You said "top tier". You previously categorised this as Leinster, La Rochelle, Toulouse and Saracens when that argument suited you. You're now moving those goalposts.

In any case, Sheehan having 2 International caps before any ERC match still supports my argument.

The point that you've proven is that none of your selected outliers have received much more, if any, greater opportunity by Farrell than he given Crowley. He started one ERC game at 10 before Farrell gave him his chance for Ireland.

Well, exactly. The notion that Crowley (or anyone else) needed more Provincial exposure before Farrell selects them is demonstrably not true. Farrell has been the most willing of any Irish coach to gives players an opportunity independent of their provincial pecking order / experience.

I'm glad you agree I've proven that point tho.

I dont believe many were even calling for him to start for Munster.

Perhaps not. But I've posts on here from 2 years ago saying I thought Crowley would be the starting Munster 10 in the medium-term. So you can exclude me from that group.

dublin49 · 30-10-2023 11:27pm

there was a hop of a ball between us and NZ and a hop between them and SA.We are currently in the top 3 teams in reality and that is progress for me.

This years QF defeat was totally different to our last few QF defeats where we went out without firing a shot.

RichieRich_89 · 31-10-2023 3:36am

2023 (Andy Farrell): topped pool, lost QF 28-24 to eventual runners-up NZ

2019 (Josef Schmidt): 2nd in pool, lost QF 46-14 to eventual Bronze Match winners NZ

2015 (Josef Schmidt): topped pool, lost QF 43-20 to Argentina team that ended up 4th

2011 (Declan Kidney): topped pool, lost QF 22-10 to Wales team that ended up 4th

2007 (Eddie O'Sullivan): didn't emerge from pool, finishing behind teams that contested the Bronze Final

2003 (Eddie O'Sullivan): 2nd in pool, lost QF 43-21 to France team that ended up 4th

1999 (Warren Gatland): 2nd in pool, lost QF qualifier to the lowest ranked team to make the knockouts (Argentina were the only team who finished 3rd in their pool to advance). Argentina subsequently lost their QF 26-47 to the France team who lost in the Final.

1995 (Gerry Murphy): 2nd in pool, lost QF 36-12 to France team that ended up 3rd

1991 (Ciaran Fitzgerald): 2nd in pool, lost QF 18-19 to eventual Champions Australia

1987 (Mick Doyle): 2nd in pool, lost QF 33-15 to Australia team that ended up 4th

It's a low bar but results-wise 2023 was Ireland's best World Cup of the professional era - and probably 2nd best overall. In 1991 it was the eventual Champions they lost to, and they led in that game, unlike this in year's QF. What jumps out is lots of hammerings or relatively heavy losses at the hands of the less good semi-finalists over the years - the teams who ended up 4th four times! This time around the QF loss was a tight game against a team that made the Final, so a more respectable showing. And they combined that with winning their pool.

The two coaches who took Ireland to two World Cups both did worse second time round. Hopefully Farrell can buck that trend. Two isn't much of a data set to call a "trend", so, personally, that doesn't concern me.

Akrasia · 31-10-2023 9:52am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121301704#Comment_121301704

Sexton was playing badly. Maybe the Halo you put around his head obscured your view of the game

Akrasia · 31-10-2023 10:05am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121302734#Comment_121302734

And it cost us the world cup

FrancieBrady · 31-10-2023 10:19am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121304238#Comment_121304238

The entitlement again.

It really is your problem to get over.

Podge_irl · 31-10-2023 10:22am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121304238#Comment_121304238

This is utterly ridiculous. It absolutely did not - Sexton's play, insofar as it contributed, was well down the list of problems.

If you want to boil it down to one thing, which in and of itself is a silly thing to do, our line-out cost us the world cup.

Akrasia · 31-10-2023 10:24am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121304290#Comment_121304290

It's not entitlement. Go back over my posts since last year. Sexton was too old to be relied on to go the full 80 in all the RWC knockout games, and Farrell consistently refused to give any other 10 meaningful game time unless Sexton was ruled out through injury or suspension.

He gambled on a 38 year old who looked every minute of his age in the QF, and still wouldn't bring on the reserve 10 even when Sexton was clearly running on fumes.

FrancieBrady · 31-10-2023 10:27am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121304305#Comment_121304305

Of course it's entitlement.

How could he have cost us something we didn't have?

It's classic 'entitlement'.

Akrasia · 31-10-2023 10:31am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121304297#Comment_121304297

We keep being told we were a kick of a ball away from winning. Well, one kick of a ball was Sextons missed penalty, another kick of a ball was the terrible chip he attempted in the latter stages of the game.

He was no attacking threat as others have said, could barely run and given that we are constantly told that Sexton is the most important player for Ireland, when he had a bad game, it has an over pronounced impact on the rest of the team.

We might still have lost if Crowley was brought on, but we'll never know, and literally nobody would have blamed Farrell for taking Sexton off at 60 minutes. He gambled on the tiny percentage chance that Sexton would play better the more tired he got...

Akrasia · 31-10-2023 10:36am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121304321#Comment_121304321

What are you on about?

We were going there to try to win the RWC, not as plucky underdogs, but as the world number one team. We were good enough to beat that NZ team but we came up short. Some players underperformed, but the coaches also made poor decisions.

A key one being to not use the full bench when fatigue was clearly a problem

Facthunt · 31-10-2023 10:44am

On a different note anyone know if there is a sale on our World Cup merchandise yet?

FrancieBrady · 31-10-2023 10:55am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121304354#Comment_121304354

You are pivoting now.

You clearly thought we had something and that one player or the choice to play one player 'cost' us what we had.

Entitlement all day long.

What actually happened is we entered a competition and lost to the eventual finalist.

Furze99 · 31-10-2023 11:08am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121304297#Comment_121304297

Line outs were becoming a bit of a lottery in several games inc the final. Barely any separation at times, you could see the attacking team shuffling sideways a bit to make space before the throw while the defending team was encroaching. The officials seem to have been directed to ref the scrums strictly but let any old disruption & carry on happen in line outs, partic early in the game.

Akrasia · 31-10-2023 11:09am

I have absolutely no interest in your wierd 'entitlement' argument

FrancieBrady · 31-10-2023 11:11am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121304475#Comment_121304475

Agree, it was a mess area in quite a few games.

FrancieBrady · 31-10-2023 11:12am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121304477#Comment_121304477

Nothing weird about it.

It infected quite a bit of the support. You aren't alone.

phog · 31-10-2023 11:52am

I don't think there m/any saying we were entitled to win the RWC, there are some who thought had we won a QF then we'd surely get to the final because of the possibilities of who's we'd meet in the SF

There's also very little wrong with anyone having the view that we should have tried a fresh player in the final 15-10 minute over a tired & ineffectual player.

Mr Disco · 31-10-2023 11:55am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121304297#Comment_121304297

It was a farce. It became the Jonny Sexton show. It was a suffocating situation for the squad and the coaching team were too weak to do anything about Saint Jonny