Hamas strike on Israel - Threadbans in op - mod warning in OP updated 19/10/23

scottser

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122167757#Comment_122167757

If you have any faith in international law, it's the only correct response. Anything else is cheering on genocide and we should call it out without fear of recrimination.

When all this washes out, the US, UK and German public are going to be mortified at what they enabled, encouraged and indeed, profited from financially.

BringBackMick

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122167756#Comment_122167756

Would Ireland be about to recognise Palestine if Hamas/Iran had not attacked Israel on October 7th?

Hamas/Iran knew exactly what Israel would do after an attack of that level especially with such an extreme right wing government in place - the whole point was to splinter the west and reinforce support in the Arab world and beyond

Ireland just appear blinkered by the awful scenes in Gaza , getting easily wound up by the Netanyahu scumbag govt and are showing no nuance in their foreign policy

we should be working back channels to try and get a change in government in Israel by pressuring the US and other close allies

not handing Hamas/Iran a win due to frustration/ upset and political populism

Chanelle 1988

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122167774#Comment_122167774

I think you're wrong , the conflict in NI was just like the Israeli Arab issue in that you've two ideologies laying claim & willing to kill or die for their birthright !

Sudden Valley

It not like we are going it alone, a few countries appear to be recognising Palestine at the same time. The status quo cant continue in Israel/Palestine no matter how much Israel and the US want it to remain so.

The idea we could pressure the US or Israel to change the government in Israel is farcical.

BringBackMick

it’s a poorly timed decision and there’s still a few hours for a pull back to discuss a road map to recognition etc etc

ujjjjjjjjj

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122167781#Comment_122167781

Ireland have become the useful idiots for Iran and Hamas. Nothing more, nothing less.

Sudden Valley

There is no way they are going to delay the announcement no matter how much the pro Israeli side is disagreeable to it. According to wiki 143 countries have already recognised Palestine so of all the things to get upset about, this seems a strange one.

Chanelle 1988

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122167788#Comment_122167788

Mick Martin is a clown , his smoking ban left him feeling like the almighty ! And where does he get off putting it up to a US president , albeit a not particularly effective one ! But brace for what's coming , but Ireland ,Spain & Sth Africa will never influence the UN , the Veto held by some countries makes it a joke of an organisation much the same as our joker politicians !

scottser

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122167781#Comment_122167781

A few things to unpack there, but Ireland has always been a believer in, and positive contributor to the UN. That's our backchannel and we support the two state solution and recent calls for ceasefire, which the US vetoed. We condemned IDF murders of UNRWA and UN staff. If we are to influence anyone, our major strength is our respect for the ICC and the institutions of international law in the cause of peace. We're showing real leadership here and I'm impressed with our government because they usually self interested jockstains.

As for the other stuff prior to Oct 7th, we all know this war didn't start on that date. But I fully agree that Hamas anticipated Israels reaction, and Israel is playing into their hands daily. The analogy I've been drawing is the Algerian wars and deGaulle's hysterically brutal response vs the FLN, which brought down the fourth Republic.

Sudden Valley

Going after Michael Martin for the smoking ban, really? Amazing how easy it is to rile up supporters of Israel. The 144th country to recognise Palestine and Israel potentially being called out by the ICC I guess makes this a bad day.

dublin49

wow,there is very likely to be a refugee outflow from Gaza in the future and our Government in the midst of a current immigration/housing crisis puts its hand up as a friendly destination,Roderick's message part 2.

ujjjjjjjjj

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122167786#Comment_122167786

This isn't an Arab / Israeli thing and never has been. It is an attempt by Iran and associated Islamic HHH terrorist groups to destabilise Israel and the West no doubt with plenty of advice and support and prompting from Putin who profits while we are all distracted. Israel had to respond to the attacks on 7th October and they knew that and in Hamas land and in Iran and Moscow they all sit back and get out the popcorn and watch the west eat itself alive. South Africa are now closely aligning with Putin (recently joint military exercises for example) and their ICC nonsense is again no doubt being supported in Moscow and is contributing to this lunacy from the ICC.

Tha naivety of people and the lack of awareness of what is actually going on here is hard to fathom. Harris and the broader Irish political establishment really should stick to filling in potholes and cycle lanes. They just don't have the ability to cope with this.

Chanelle 1988

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122167808#Comment_122167808

Not a lot to unpack ! Israel was being acknowledged by the Saudis & Egypt , only Iranian backed terrorism couldn't allow that to progress , but that's Shia v Sunni

scottser

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122167819#Comment_122167819

You're essentially arguing that the genocide in Gaza should be ignored by the institutions charged with prosecuting it on the grounds of geopolitics. If anything, we should be more supportive of the ICC that they be given the teeth to prosecute both Hamas and the Israeli government.

Chanelle 1988

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122167819#Comment_122167819

Totally agree with you on Iranian interference ! I made that point earlier , Sunni v Shia ! I disagree with you're premise that it's not a Arab Israeli conflict , long before Putin they fought 3 wars , Israel was originally a fraction of the size it is now , they could have annexed east Jerusalem in 48 but chose not too also i think boards contributors are smarter than you give them credit for , youre right on our unelected Taoiseach , absolutely no business making unilateral decisions on behalf of the Irish people !/

ujjjjjjjjj

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122167837#Comment_122167837

It isn't genocide, its a war. A horrible messy conflict which is going to kill and has killed thousands started by Hamas with Iranian support and no doubt Russian interference and encouragement. Iran, Russia and Islamic terrorism benefits from this mess and this is big boy terrorism and war mongering at play. If you want to believe its a genocide fire ahead, nothing I am going to say will change your mind but doing anything which gives succour and support to Hamas and the other H's and Iran and onto Russia and Putin is nothing more than total and utter stupidity. That is what Harris and the two other muppets are doing tomorrow.

ujjjjjjjjj

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122167847#Comment_122167847

Yes absolutely Iran did not like or want to allow improving relationships between Israel and Saudi etc. But don't expect Harris to even begin to understand the Shia Sunni conflict far too nuanced for him. Yes of course there is an ongoing Arab / Israeli conflict but this isn't the issue at hand here. The root cause of this is Iran and Russian meddling and support not the long running and historical Arab / Israeli issue. I suppose this is fundamentally why so many people have gone down the rabbit hole. The attack on 7th October and hostage taking was so extreme they knew Israel would have to react. Putin is very closely aligning to and supporting Iran and this isn't without a price and Iran due to international isolation is very happy to embrace Putin. Iran, Islamic terror groups (HHH etc) and Russia are all gaining here as the West splits and argues. Ask yourself is it any surprise right now as the west is so distracted that Russia has over 500,000 troops inside Ukraine and is pushing forward.

scottser

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122167849#Comment_122167849

When you deliberately kill 40,000 civilians, starve a million people, deny them aid, medicine, shelter, then to bomb aid trucks and murder aid workers?

It's a genocide. If you're convinced it's not then why wouldn't you let the charge be prosecuted in court?

ujjjjjjjjj

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122167866#Comment_122167866

Your figures are based on what, Hamas press releases ?? Seriously ?? How many of the supposed 40,000 are Hamas combatants? How many aid trucks and food supply trucks have been seized and taken by Hamas ? Israel has allowed vast quantites of aid into Gaza after inspection. What are Israel supposed to do with Hamas rocket launchers being used from within civilian areas in Gaza, just leave them alone or destroy them ? The cause is Hamas firing and fighting from within densely populated civilian areas. Aid truck bombings were accidents as has happened in every war. That horrible phrase 'friendly fire' and the fog of war will cause mistakes. War is hell its chaos, it horrendous and it is to be deplored but this isn't genocide. The holocaust or Rwanda or Cambodia was genocide. This is a war in a densely populated civilian area which is going to kill and maime many more people until Hamas stop fighting and release all the hostages. Are the IDF and Israel angels, hell no but in war no one is. I have studied and read about endless conflicts and wars and nothing that is going on here is vaguely genocidal or nefarious, it's war and its deeply unpleasant.

scottser

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122167876#Comment_122167876

We'll see.

REDBULL68

So Ireland will recognise Palestine as an independent state great, could have done it years ago ,but no ,there's an election coming, chancers.

Chanelle 1988

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122167861#Comment_122167861

Putin is low man on the totem pole , he sees Russias demise as a world power and wants to go back to the days of the czars , it's demographics are atrocious , he's already long surpassed the average Russian man in terms of mortality , he's now the junior partner with China whose failing economy wouldn't survive western sanctions if they invaded Taiwan, so putin is little more than a busted flush , even with a Trump presidency ! As for Israel , BIBI is like biblical Samson , willing to tear the whole show down but we know how that ended , only a 2 state solution will bring peace

sock.rocker*

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122167373#Comment_122167373

"How can it be a hate crime if I love doing it?"

sock.rocker*

Anyone with any understanding of Israel knew last October that they'd bomb hospitals, refugee camps, starve the population, and continue stealing land in the West Bank. I guess what we didn't know was that Western countries would talk about sanctioning the ICC for geopolitical reasons, reducing it to nothing more than a tool against enemy states.

While the ICC is still busy prosecuting ex-Nazis for things they did when they were adolescents, the US president wants to sanction it for daring to confront war crimes it is supplying the weapons for now today. Are Israel's crimes now today only to be investigated and prosecuted decades from now?

Chanelle 1988

You're right , I can't understand hospitals being used as arms dump , I can't understand what type of human convinces another human to strap an explosive vest around him and to detonate it causing maximum carnage , I can't understand a mother allowing her child to be warped by men who have such a low regard for life ! I could go on but it's depressing !

sock.rocker*

I can't understand people giving excuses for war crimes.

Odhinn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122167676#Comment_122167676

Israel has been the aggresor since 1967.

Chanelle 1988

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122167928#Comment_122167928

Would you call Oct 7 a war crime ? Or are these crimes against humanity exclusively carried out by Israel ! Hamas are a prescribed terrorist organisation , women are treated deplorable, they advocate the stoning of LGBTQ people ! Our "western" way of life makes us infidels , but you go and carry a torch for them !

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122167676#Comment_122167676

or just read the 1st page of this thread you’ll be fine.

Chanelle 1988

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122167934#Comment_122167934

And the preceeding wars were started by who ??? Israel was very conciliatory up to 1967 , it was Egyptian ineptitude by leaving their airforce fully exposed that resulted in a swift Israeli victory ! In 48 they respected Islam's holy sites in east Jerusalem , I doubt it would have been reciprocated !