Hamas strike on Israel - Threadbans in op - mod warning in OP updated 19/10/23

sock.rocker*

Trump being Biden's alternative doesn't wash away the fact that Biden's four years have been some of the worst possible when it comes to foreign policy. Afghanistan, Ukraine, Gaza.

Trump is an arsehole and a liar etc. but his four years were completely calm on the actual world stage. His big things were pulling out of the Paris Agreement, dropping a MOAB, meeting Kim, and putting "racist" tariffs on China.

There is no way around all of this. Biden's record on the world stage has objectively been a disaster and the existence of Trump won't excuse all of this when his term or two terms are looked back on. Attacking the ICC is beyond the pale and if I asked anyone here a year ago who would do so, they'd have said Trump, Putin, Xi, and Kim.

What's remarkable about all of this is some bizarre insistence that a country being a democracy excuses its behaviour, when in fact, a country being a democracy just serves to make the general populace more responsible for the country's actions.

pjohnson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122162941#Comment_122162941

Yeah and who won the election when they stayed at home instead of backing Hilary?

Maybe they are stupid enough to make the same mistake again. It wont help Gaza that they supposedly care so much about.

They already saw what staying at home does, if they care so much about Gaza then deciding to condemn the place entirely by having President Trump/Kennedy at the reins seems counter productive.

That entire narrative is nonsense, or the voters are unimaginably thick.

Augme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122163732#Comment_122163732

Genocide Joe has done nothing to stop Israel though. They've basically ignored everything he's asked them to do and he's been perfectly fine about that. It seems that no matter who is President Gaza will be destroyed, so at least by not voting people aren't going to be complicate in ensuring that happens.

pjohnson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122163811#Comment_122163811

Do they think not voting means there'll be no president elected?

Grayson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122163811#Comment_122163811

There's two options on the table. One guy who's at least put up some token resistance to israeli atrocities. And another guy who'd actively encourage it.

Neither are good options. It's like choosing between getting shot in one for or in both feet. Voters can just choose the least worse one.

Augme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122163817#Comment_122163817

Of course not. No matter what way they vote or don't vote a president who supports the genocide of Palestinians will be in power in the White House. I can perfectly understand why a person would not want to vote for someone like that. I don't understand why you find that so difficult to understand.

Augme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122163823#Comment_122163823

A token effort in an election year where he's desperate for votes. If he won the election and stopped being desperate for those voters it doesn't take a genius to figure out what level of resistance he'd put up then.

pjohnson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122163826#Comment_122163826

Because the incumbent is considerably less genocidal than the other two. But I suppose folks who go blathering about Evil Genocide Joe havent left themselves much room for Trump/Kennedy on their Genocide spectrum.

The Republicans are actually criticising Biden for not supporting Israel. If those morons think Joe is helping commit genocide it'll be darkly hilarious to see what they think if one of the others got in.

pjohnson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122163823#Comment_122163823

Maybe we are just completely overestimating theintelligence of the American voter.

ToweringPerformance

Imagine defending a guy like Biden, a guy who defends a war criminal.

hotmail.com

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122163841#Comment_122163841

Biden is the one in office.

hotmail.com

Simon Harris refuses to criticise Joe Biden's "outrageous" comment on the ICC ruling.

Our opposition to this war is beyond hollow if we don't criticise America.

ToweringPerformance

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122163899#Comment_122163899

But but but Trump something something….

thomas 123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122163923#Comment_122163923

A super strange stance considering MM work and stance on the whole situation.

Another nail in the coffin of confidence and supply or whatever they are calling it this week.

https://www.rte.ie/news/2024/0423/1445100-micheal-martin-middle-east/

sock.rocker*

Remarkable that people are painting a picture that Trump would be so much worse when Biden couldn't possibly be any worse. Literally defending a US president complicate in the routine bombing of hospitals and refugee camps in case the other guy would be worse.

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122163576#Comment_122163576

It's incredible the lengths some western leaders will go to try and get Israel off the hook. Depict the ICC, the UN and many aid charities as corrupt and 'deeply biased'…..anything to get the war criminal government and its despot leader out of the frame.

zerosquared

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122161995#Comment_122161995

Putin was in China last week, a criminal wanted at the same court

Did either China or Russia or any other number of countries Putin been visiting hand him over to the court? Nope

It ain’t just Israel who ignores this court

Sudden Valley

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122164098#Comment_122164098

Yes but it does limit the countries he can travel to. All the big countries and their allies who commit anything that can be perceived as war crimes will unfortunately ignore the court, including the USA. Israel are going mad of the ICC decision for a reason. will be interesting to see what France or the UK do if the ICC judges agree with the prosecutor.

Not perfect, but better than nothing.

Sudden Valley

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122164077#Comment_122164077

I dont think we are allowed to criticize Biden on this though, as its an election year. It seems everyone in the election is going for the Pro Israeli vote RFK jr, Trump and Biden.

concerned_tenant

People often differentiate between Hamas and citizens of Gaza, but the latter have been consistently shown to have approved what happened on October 7, with more than 9 out of 10 claiming that Hamas committed no war crimes against Israelis. These are very alarming figures.

Gaza cannot expect peace if they continue to back an Islamic extremist terror organization.

A broad majority of Palestinians in the West Bank and the Gaza Strip approve of the Hamas invasion and massacre on October 7 of last year, a recent poll published by the Palestinian Center for Policy and Survey Research (PSR) shows.

The support for Hamas’ decision to launch its attack rose in the Gaza Strip (57-71%) and slightly dropped in the West Bank (82-71%) since the last PSR poll in December.

Regardless, 70% of those surveyed said they were satisfied with the role played by Hamas during the war, with 61% also approving of the role played by its Gaza leader, Yahya Sinwar.

Despite broad support for the Hamas’ attacks, 91% of the Palestinians said they did not think the terror group committed war crimes – but 94% think Israel did.

zerosquared

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122164138#Comment_122164138

If not Biden then whom? Trump would probably just nuke the Middle East and call it a “wonderful” job and pat himself on back for “solving the problem in a flash”

There are only two horses running in the presidential race, and voting for RFK or anyone else only helps Trumps chances

sock.rocker*

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122164149#Comment_122164149

It isn't 2015-2016. You can't just hypothetically say Trump would drop nukes. Point to anything in his foreign policy as president that would suggest he would just nuke the Middle East?

What he's actually known for was putting forward a peace plan for Israel / Palestine, and was attacked by Biden for it being an annexation of Gaza. Now Biden is attacking the ICC for daring to go near Israel for war crimes, as if it impossible allies to commit war crimes.

There is only one thing worse than Trump and that is a president who knows they can do anything they want and people will defend it with "but orange man".

zerosquared

Ah yes Trump will be good for Gaza

I better bookmark this post of yours as it might age very badly come 2025

sock.rocker*

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122164205#Comment_122164205

Bookmark away. Had Trump overseen the US response since October and then attacked the ICC, you'd be calling him a warmonger.

Trump made America be held to account for their actions. People didn't sugarcoat their actions. The spotlight was on how awful it all could be. Biden makes America not be held accountable whatsoever and a big part of that is people saying "well at least he's not Trump".

Sudden Valley

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122164149#Comment_122164149

I would prefer Biden but I would still criticise his approach. He his bending over backward to appease Pro Israel- minded voters but they are still more likely to vote for RFK jr or Trump anyway.

zerosquared

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122164219#Comment_122164219

The guy who started an insurrection to destroy the republic and is currently in court on a criminal trial would “hold America accountable” and whose sons made billions cosying up to Saudis

Hahahahahahha

Hahahahahahahahaha

Ha

zerosquared

And he deserves criticism but if you look higher up you can see that all it enables is quacks to use this a wedge to install Trump who would be exponentially worse given his past history

sock.rocker*

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122164247#Comment_122164247

Learn how to read.

He made America be held accountable. People criticised everything he / the US did, but with Biden, he can supply weapons to Israel and attack the ICC and European politicians and the media let it slide.

hotmail.com

The Trump fanatics don't care about Gaza, they just want to talk about Trump.

sock.rocker*

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122164270#Comment_122164270

Not a Trump fanatic. I actually want Biden to win, but it doesn't stop me thinking he's a disgusting person.

The reason Trump is being talked about is because it allows Biden do all of these things. There is no way Europe would be behaving like this if Trump was president. They wouldn't be seen to be agreeing with Trump's position if he was in support of Israel. They would be calling him a warmonger.