Is the present FF/FG/GP government the worst in the history of the state?

Sam Russell

We can cut the use of fertilizer which is required by EU regulation, so no option.

However, we can mitigate the effect by using appropriate measures at farm level. I am not a farmer so I can only assume it can be done without harming any animals or farmers.

Clo-Clo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121221160#Comment_121221160

We could also use methane as a renewable source

We should not be cutting our food source. Not because the EU or others tell us. They are already screwing farmers all over Europe

Coolcormack1979

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121219538#Comment_121219538

While Brazil increases by 24 million animals.this whole green bs will fall away like a cheap suit.I’m a farmer and am sick to my boll.. of being blamed for all of our so called climate stuff.cull the herd here but sure we’ll import all the food.greenwashing at its best like not cutting a bit of turf here but bring it in from Eastern Europe thanks to the lunatic greens in government

Sam Russell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121221436#Comment_121221436

As a farmer, do you grow your own spuds, cabbage, carrots, and supply your own milk? Do you have apple trees, or even one apple tree. Do you keep chickens? How about a few pigs?

Now there was a time when all farmers did this, or at least some of it - to keep the food costs down. Any surplus would be sold at a local market.

A poly tunnel would be a good way of diversifying production into tomatoes and strawberries - a good earner.

The 'climate stuff' is real and already changing our weather - wettest July, and hottest summer in southern Europe, with floods and fires all over the world. Have you not seen the news coverage?

Shoog

Can't say it's totally bad since the economy is doing well, but a one size fits all approach to solving systemic issue (incentivise business to solve all our problems) has been a disaster and very wasteful. As a philosophical approach to managing a country the FFG government has outlived it's usefulness

Shoog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121221386#Comment_121221386

We grow for export, cutting our herd numbers would have zero impact on our ability to feed ourself and minimal impact on the national balance sheet.

Unless you propose a policy of self sufficiency (which would be a disaster) then farming is not the issue unless you are a farmer. It is a long generation ago since farming was the backbone of the economy and we all had to bow to the will of the farming lobby.

Jack98

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121222039#Comment_121222039

We are farming at home, have planted 100s of metres of hedges over the last few years, have planted 500 trees over the past two years, we have a small traditional orchard beside the yard that many farmers would have where we keep our own few chickens for our own use and implement countless other environmental measures and practices.

What you suggest is fine in theory but small scale horticulture won’t pay the bills, help educate family members and so on it’s only pocket money at best.

Farms are businesses and until there is a real return and ample income from what you suggest there will be no major shift from farmers. Constant rhetoric of farmers all do bad is harmful for general public and farmer relations, when farmers are implementing every environmental measure forced upon them trying to do right and are constantly put down its easy to see why the likes of @roosterman71 would be annoyed.

Shoog

Let's be clear, I support farmers.

However they must do what is needed to achieve national goals and they must be adequately supported in doing so.

Jack98

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121222114#Comment_121222114

Farmers are willing to engage when they are rewarded for their loss of income, all the talk since the early 2010s was of harvest 2030 and trying to meet those goals. A lot of farmers invested significantly on the back of what governments were calling for them to do. You seem a reasonable person I’m sure you can see why farmers are annoyed if you had invested a few hundred thousand to improve your income in what ever line of work you’re in and were then told you had to maintain your same work hours for significantly reduced income you’d be quite aggrieved too wouldn’t you?

Farmers are willing to change they just want to be rewarded accordingly and so far there is no sign of this and they are feeling undervalued.

Shoog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121222155#Comment_121222155

I totally agree, its one of the worst things that this current FFG government did introducing the Harvest 2030 targets. They knew at the time they did so that they were failing to meet both biodiversity and water quality targets. They knew that Harvest 2030 would accelerate the decline in both. they effectively shafted the farming community to gain a bit of short term export earnings to dig them out of the 2008 crash which they similarly created.

It is one of the main examples of why this current government are not fit to govern.

Sam Russell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121222075#Comment_121222075

Well done for doing all that, and hope that goes well for you.

I saw a programme on RTE about owl boxes. These are put up by rural dwellers (usually farmers) to promote the spread of owls. Takes a few years before the owls find them and take up residence.

The biggest problem the one from Coynes Cross quoted was the widespread use of rat poison to control rodents, particularly rats. The result was that many owls are killed by eating the rats. What was said, was eliminating the rat poison and promoting the owls resulted in fewer rats. Result.

Another farmer said that when ploughing, he no longer sees the flock of birds looking for the worms thrown up by the plough. He presumed it was because there aren't many left in the soil. If that is so, then the permeability of the soil is reduced giving rise to flooding. Not a good situation - and likely the result of compaction of the soil due the the enormous increase in the size and weight of tractors and other farm machinery.

But do continue to do your good work. But do grow your own spuds - even just a few drills.

Jack98

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121222350#Comment_121222350

We have bird boxes on trees all around the fringes of the farmyard since the time of reps when farmers were paid for them and owl boxes in barns but it is rare you’d actually see an owl. My neigbor has owl boxes in an old castle on his land and you can see owls there every year and they’re a sight to behold beautiful birds but I think that’s more so because of less traffic around the castle I’m not sure owl boxes in farm yards may startle the owls?

I haven’t seen rat poison since I was a small child around the place we have 11 cats out around the yard at the moment and I can’t remember the last time I saw a rat or mouse around the place and for so called feral cats they are extremely friendly partly down to the milk they are getting twice a day after milking I presume.

We don’t have potato drills as the land around yard wouldn’t be suitable for growing, my parents would have grown them years ago when they were small children. They might start again when they retire but at the moment there’s no time for that. I have no problem admitting we don’t grow any of the food we consume ourselves bar an animal or two slaughtered each year for the freezer as we are dairy and beef farmers and ill let the Irish potato growers what few of them is left look after our potato needs.

Coolcormack1979

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121222039#Comment_121222039

I farm to make a living not to be a hobby farmer to sooth the concerns of Eamon Ryan and the rest of the green fanatics.

the days of yore of a farmers doing multiple types of farming are long gone.I specialise in dairying and try and do it to the best of my abilities.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121203939#Comment_121203939

I'll never forget Noonan's FG preaching a degree of fiscal restraint and being utterly decimated in the 2002 General Election. Then Irish people had the gall to claim the crash was completely and utterly not their fault 🙄

Jack98

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121222215#Comment_121222215

I agree with the first half of what you said, but the alternative government would be a whole lot worse for this country. FG/FF have certainly screwed more than a few things up but I would never ever vote for SF and I’m 24. If you are willing to put in the work Ireland is still a great country with excellent prospects you just have to have a goal, put in the work and not live beyond your means.

BlueSkyDreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121219972#Comment_121219972

Aye, but the targets will have to be hit, so the govt will make it happen one way or another.

I dont know what their approach will be. Perhaps witholding payments for non compliant farms.

Sam Russell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121222532#Comment_121222532

I would not describe growing your own produce as 'hobby farming' because home grown produce tastes better, and you know where it came from and what went into its production - plus it should be cheaper.

And certainly, you should grow it for your own satisfaction and pride - not for some perceived pressure from fanatics who are looking to save the planet. But it is clear from this summer's weather that the planet does need saving.

BlueSkyDreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121219990#Comment_121219990

Youve answered your own question there.

We domestically consume only a small amount of the beef we produce.

So cutting the herd by say 10 or 20 percent is not going to result in us needing to import beef.

The CO2 emissions we would generate by having to import beef are the same emissions you are advocating when we export 80% to 90% of our beef production.

We arent the only country that produces beef in the world and exporting high emission product will need to be cut globally, not just cut in Ireland.

Clo-Clo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121222808#Comment_121222808

We are one of the top quality meats in the World and it is a huge revenue generator in Ireland. I don't see why we need to cut the herd for ridiculous comments about CO2. We have plenty of other things to look at first

Jack98

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121222801#Comment_121222801

I’m afraid it is hobby farming though, dairy farming is the only method of farming in Ireland at the moment that would allow a person to be full time farming and earn the average industrial wage. What you describe as diversifying is great in theory but is only a viable income when it is a niche. Once multiple more than two or three small horticulture plots open in each parish the market would be saturated for that parish where as now there may be 10/20 times family farms in that parish providing families livable incomes.

Sam Russell

As a country, we import vegetables that should be grown here.

This has been made uneconomic by the behaviour of the supermarkets selling produce at below cost and expecting the Irish producers to bear the losses. The Gov should have moved to stop it but did nothing.

That is where your complaint should be directed, not at the fanatics trying to save the planet.

BlueSkyDreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121221436#Comment_121221436

It isnt just a Green policy.

Climate Targets are here to stay, whether we like it or not. If the Green Party dont get into Govt in Ireland the targets will still be there for FFG or SF to own.

In your example, its up to the Brazilian govt to manage their targets.

Just because they miss them doesnt mean we can. Thats like saying its ok to break the law because someone else did it.

We need maybe 10% of the beef that we produce. Culling the herd by 20% isnt going to impact our domestic supply at all & wouldnt require us to import beef and increase emissions that way.

BlueSkyDreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121222837#Comment_121222837

Agri is the biggest contributor to emissions and its reduction targets are actually lower than many other industries.

The sale of beef brings money in, but its also heavily subsidised through farm payments etc - so the industry is not financially self sustaining & takes a lot of money out of our economy.

We still need farming, of course & I dont think anyone is disputing that.

But we dont need as much of it as we have today and reslistically, if we maintain the same scale of farming as we have today, we are never going to hit those climate targets and that is going to cost the govt a lot of money in the future in the form of governmental fines - not to mention the climate impact.

Shoog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121222837#Comment_121222837

Because we are legally obliged to.

We do not earn huge revenues from beef, it's a drop in the ocean compared to pharma and tech earnings.

Clo-Clo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121223263#Comment_121223263

How are we legally obliged?

Pharma and tech should not mean we shut down any other operations, especially farming which historically Ireland has done.

Shoog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121222752#Comment_121222752

So your not concerned that many farmers will go bankrupt servicing the massive debts they took on to forfill the FFG policy of expanding beyond sustainable levels. If there is pain on the farmers it will be directly attributable to this government and their foolish agricultural policies

Shoog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121223291#Comment_121223291

We are legally obliged to meet emissions targets. That is both CO2 and Nitrates emissions. We miss them and the EU fines us by the day. We signed up to targets at the last COP meetings.

We should cut where it is most effective and that unfortunately is agriculture.

The reality is that agriculture has been dying for the last 30years with most farmers well over 60years of age and no one to take on the holdings. An effective consolidation and buy out scheme would be the best possible outcome and would prevent much land from effective abandonment.

Clo-Clo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121223200#Comment_121223200

The government fines are nonsense, we got told from 2019 the fines would be introduced and they never happened. Why would we pay fines? the Paris agreement is a target and yes we should work towards it but if anyone asked for a fine we should tell them in what direction to walk.

We should be looking at options with farming, like increasing trees etc to help. But shutting down and hurting agri is not an option we should look at. Especially when US companies have no allegiance to Ireland.

We should be concentrating on finally putting a public transport system in place which will provide for the current and future population. That would be a better investment.

Sam Russell

Farming is in trouble in Ireland. 600 or so potato growers, with 300 being 'large scale' growers. That is a very small number.

We import potatoes which should be a nonsense, just because 'serious' farmers see growing potatoes as 'hobby' farming. We also import carrots, and other vegetables that would grow here very well.

Why do farmers always look for subsidies?

Jack98

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121223300#Comment_121223300

It was poor advice by the government but if you don’t do your own research before taking on such big loans it’s your own problem imo. You need to stress test all big decisions before a big financial undertaking under different scenarios and not just go run for cover under the guise of the government screwed me like many Irish people like to do.

Its an unfortunate situation but all the blame can’t be placed at the governments door.