Planning - Lob Cabin behind House - Carlow

Mellor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121441577#Comment_121441577

This is a bizarre mix of lies, ignorance and delusion.

“Build within the terms of planning” that is the case now. And you directly contradict it with “their plans, their business”. Pick a side.

The building standards are legislated. The spec they need to be exists in black and white. They fail that. Which is why there is no adequate warranty.

You’ve spent $50k in rent over how long? Big difference between one year and 10. Im sorry you feel like you have zero. But if you really do, how are you planning to afford a site and a cabin?

A site and a cabin is no less than a sizable house deposit. That how most people buy a first property.

Thinking fire safety is whataboutery is very sad.

Mellor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121441731#Comment_121441731

People die in car crashes while wearing a seatbelts too. Anyone that thinks that means seatbelts are pointless is, to be blunt, an idiot. That’s not how safe design and behaviour works.

I’d expect most people to grasp that seabelts reduce risk, but don’t make you invincible.

Build log cabins to a desired fire safety standard, same as houses. Simple

That is currently the law. Simple, I agree.

Show me a log cabin on the market that meets that (and other) building regs. I can wait.

I can give you examples, but they are no cheaper than traditional houses, so obviously not what you are getting at.

Have you seen the cost of new builds? 

Need a doctor’s salary to afford them!!!

Building something worth a few hundred thousand euro, costs a few hundred thousand Euro. There’s probably a whole other thread explaining that

muffler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121441574#Comment_121441574

So you claim there are lots of these going up where you live yet you can't produce any photographic evidence to back up your claim. Instead you have posted a few pics of God knows what as I can't even tell if they are just sheds or cabins and the locations of a couple of them don't even seem to be in this country. You went to great lengths in attempting to hide characteristics that would show that they are actually in Canada for example.

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121441731#Comment_121441731

I sympathise with the likes of Mellor's view on proper regulation insofar as there is a normal functioning housing for purchase & rental market. But there isn't and people will do what they need to do on the qt. This means lots of people who can't afford rentals on their own, being squeezed in with others. It means adult children living at home into their 30s & 40s. And it means people coming up with solutions like mobile homes and cabins. Ordinary citizens won't sit around and suffer whilst planners take years to approve projects, developers hold onto undeveloped sites and the state adds continuously to building regs pushing up costs etc.

Mellor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121441363#Comment_121441363

Absolutely no problem admitting I’m wrong if I’m wrong. But saying “fires haven’t happened” in no way proves anything. Building regs existing for a good reason.

Im not suggesting they are burning down left and right. But fire safety regs in general do not prevent fires. They slow the spread of fire and let people escapes. Fire alarms, fire escapes, sprinklers, fire hoses, etc.

Fire safety is only one aspect of building. Regs. Structural soundness, insulation, ventilation, etc.

Log cabins are here. Log cabins have very good build quality, electrics and plumbing installed by qualified tradesmen, at least the ones ive seen. 

The quality can vary (as your photos show). You can’t really judge the quality from a distance. Even up close, consumers doesn’t know why to look for.

But put it this, if the build quality was great, there would be certification that it meets standards and a warranty. Do they?

As much as you want to say they are impractical, they seem to be doing a job for people who have somewhere to put them. They are all over the place at this point. 

I never said they are impractical. I said they should be used appropriately, with respect for neighbours. Meet building regs, and the suppliers should stand over the build quality and offer a suitable warranty.

I find it a bit strange that consumers would oppose quality/warranties/etc.

One thing you are right on is that they are not a solution to a countrywide issue…

Now fair enough if someone planted one in a field in the middle of nowhere or threw up a few of them to rent in the garden instead of one for their kids the council might be knocking on the door. But where is that happening?

That was one of the suggesting I’m securing against. Building loads as sub-standard dwellings to rent out to people.

I never claimed it was happening. (Obviously the council would not breach building regs like that). I’m arguing against it because that was the clueless suggestion.

I’ve repeatedly said I’ve no issue with them used appropriately, as an annex to a dwelling not a standalone dwelling

Mellor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121445008#Comment_121445008

I understand the lack of availability of housing leans people to finding a means to get their own space. I think that planning departments should be more lenient with approving them.

But that’s a planning matter. how does any of that justify ignoring building standards and regulations? What building regs have been introduced that are pushing up costs?

A main purpose of the building regs is to ensure house on the market are built to last. If these cabins are the only option for some, what happens when they start falling apart.

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121445291#Comment_121445291

They'll be knocked of course. Have relative in North America, works in building trade there and says it's common for housing to be knocked and replaced. They'd look at large swathes of Dublin with sub standard housing built in late 19th/ early 20th century and wonder why the hell they haven't all been cleared and rebuilt.

thinkabouit

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121445235#Comment_121445235

you’ve no issue with them used appropriately yet spent a few days arguing with me over why they shouldn’t be done!!

Iv been saying, if used appropriately they can be a huge helping tool for people to get a roof over there head temporarily until better accommodation comes available.

muffler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121445636#Comment_121445636

You and Mellor should get a room.

thinkabouit

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121446027#Comment_121446027

In a log cabin lol

muffler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121446288#Comment_121446288

The thought had crossed my mind!

Mellor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121445636#Comment_121445636

I said that from the start. What you describe would not count as appropriate (not complaint council house for example). You need to improve your reading comprehension.

Mellor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121445311#Comment_121445311

Buildings form two centuries past would have heritage significance. But having lasted ~150 years, I think that counts as standing the test of time 😉. American is not exactly know for housing quality.

I was referring to cheap garden rooms not designed for this climate that won't see the next decade. The quality varies, as does the cost.

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121447936#Comment_121447936

Come now, there's a helluva lot of sub standard housing about that is of stone, brick and block construction. That wouldn't approach modern building regulations. The 'log cabin' now is the modern equivalent of rural & urban vernacular housing that was put up with very basic construction methods. Take too, the by now famous expansion of social housing in the 1950s/ 60s that we often hear about and politicians stating that county councils should be building these now. These were by and large simple block built constructions with the most basic windows, one toilet, a chimney with open fire, one electric light and socket in each room and that's about it. A modern 'log cabin', modular house would exceed these in terms of efficiency very easily.

Lumen

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121448653#Comment_121448653

But is a "log cabin" cheaper than conventional construction for a given level of performance? I don't think so. It's cheaper because it's worse, not because it's modular or made of timber.

It's easy to deliver any project under budget if you change all the "mandatory" requirements to "nice to have".

Which building regs specifically do you want to relax? Energy efficiency? Ventilation? Accessibility? Should we bring back septic tanks discharging into the soil and groundwater?

Mellor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121448653#Comment_121448653

Of course. Building quality a century ago was years ago pretty poor. Would be nowhere near current standards. But I never nobody suggested it was remotely close to modern standards, so I'm not sure of the relevance.

Poor buildings a century ago are a pretty poor justification to drop standards for new buildings now.

SharkMX

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121445636#Comment_121445636

Spending days trying to argue that these cabins arent being built more and more in Ireland now too. Total waste of time even reading his posts at this point. He believes what he believes and everyone else is lying to him.

dathi

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121441586#Comment_121441586

its exactly what we are talking about here the first family died tragically when their home went on fire but the second family died needlessly when the fire spread to to their home which was too close to the first and not built to regulations

thinkabouit

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121451826#Comment_121451826

Bang on, old man yells at cloud springs to mind.

But i will be looking into your example if cannot buy a house or get social housing this year.

Sick of being exploited by this **** system & paying greedy landlords mortgages and still at square one.

SharkMX

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121451979#Comment_121451979

Take a walk around your area. Despite what someone else thinks you will see lots of them. Go in and have a chat with the people living in a few of them.

MojoMaker

Interesting that from the original post, any mention of the mother in law quickly disappeared when challenged.

Separate dwelling to be snuck into the garden of a rural house so that the homeowner could get going on the private rental business and start earning.

Annoyed when shown specific planning laws which prohibit just this kind of activity, might be back to the "mother in law" yet 😂

Mellor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121451826#Comment_121451826

Where did I say they were not being built? They are, both authorised and unauthorised.

Can’t refute anything I said, so resort to making up nonsense? Says it all really.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121451979#Comment_121451979

You haven’t managed come up with any coherent responses to anything. I get that you’re frustrated at your housing situation but mindlessly insulting others makes you look ignorant.

If you’re going to the cabin route best of luck with it. Will be a challenge without a house/garden to begin with.

sprucemoose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121448754#Comment_121448754

log cabins have replaced shipping containers as the new 'solution' to providing cheap/quick buildings which satisfy the layman but those who actually know what they are talking about understand that the costs of making them habitable generally outweigh conventional methods

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121445311#Comment_121445311

as much as i take your point, building quality in NA is generally terrible and its common for houses to be knocked and replaced as they arent really constructed to last (obviously im oversimplifying it a bit)