Garda Industrial Action - someone convince me they aren't attempting a massive swindle here

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121178314#Comment_121178314

In the UK

We aren't the UK.

_Whimsical_

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121179984#Comment_121179984

Statistics on increased likelihood to violently offend among those who take advantage of vulnerable people for their own sexual gratification apply globally.

_Whimsical_

Helen McEntree on the radio atm. Says that the only alternative roster that can be implemented is one that is already agreed upon and that the current roster is not adequate and resulting is less guards on the street making us all less safe.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121180668#Comment_121180668

They’d want to give their heads a shake or just fcuk off and get a different job tbh

crying about your work life balance when you’re public servant is ridiculous. I work in food service and have a **** work/life balance cos when most people are out enjoying the weekend/holidays/bank holidays I’m in work preparing and serving the meals you’d be out enjoying..

I could sit and cry about it but if it ever gets to that stage I’m out and I’ll go work something else. I wouldn’t expect to lobby for restaurants and hotels to be closed for paddy’s day, Easter, weekends etc 😂

Killinator

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121180668#Comment_121180668

Except poor Helen is well aware that the proposed November roster was never agreed to and was a trial roster which was almost universally hated.

It's also less adequate than the current 'covid' roster and has seen speciality units and regular units alike decimated to create the 5th unit required for it to function.

The reason it became the normal roster is because like with uniforms, cameras, IT, vehicles, etc the one thing management excels at is not taking first hand experiences of Gardai on the ground into account when making any decision. It is typical that they by pure luck happened to implement the Covid roster which is near universally approved but management don't like happy Gardai so here we are again with a Commissioner actively trying to re-implement a roster that won't work (by his own admission) out of spite. But again, why would he or his top brass care, it won't be them that has to work it so it won't effect them.

_Whimsical_

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121181770#Comment_121181770

But they've said that the plan is to start immediate negotiations on a new roster, confirmed by both Entree and Harris.

In the meantime the country can't afford to be down 13000 garda hours a week, equivalent of 320 Gardai according to Harris, and it also can't afford to be propping up Garda salaries with "unsociable hours" allowances - money that could be better spent right now. I'm sure a host of other issues exist and if I saw Gardai consider action to force improvements in policing I'd totally support that, but right now with the state of law and order in some degree of disaster here it feels very much not the time to chose rostering as the hill they want to die on. The whole country would love keep Covid timetables too but realistically they do not adequately respond to the times we find ourselves in.

BlueSkyDreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121170464#Comment_121170464

Im sure the Guards have their own reasons for wanting him gone.

I am not a Guard, so I wouldnt try and speak for them.

Killinator

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121182004#Comment_121182004

The money that is gonna be saved on less unsocial hours is gonna be spent on overtime to cover the fact that there won't be enough Gardai working anymore.

BlueSkyDreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121182004#Comment_121182004

But given that there is a recruitment and retention crisis in the guards at the moment, changing a rota to require more Garda headcount on the street at any one time is surely counter productive, no?

If we are complaining about lack of Guards on the street today, implementing a rota that requires more of them to be available at any one time is only going to result in less Garda coverage out policing the streets, as long as the retention and recruitment crisis persists.

It would be logical to at least fix the recruitment and retention issue first, before changing to a roster that requires MORE guards to be available at any point in time, vs that which we currently require.

hamburgham

There isn’t a retention crisis. A tiny fraction of one per cent have resigned. This would be normal. People spend year’s training to be doctors, nurses, dentists ,vets and a small percentage drop out of the course or never practice at all. People discover that a job isn’t for them in all walks of life.

What wasn’t normal was when no one resigned from the Gardai. Statistically and given human nature, there’s no way every single Gardai enjoyed the job yet they stayed because it was so cushy and possibly no other options. This is not a situation we would want to get back to.

end of the road

100% support and solidarity with our gardai on whatever industrial action they feel they need to take.

the rostering, retention and all other issues need to be dealt with and both the minister and commissioner need to deal with them or resign and be replaced with people who will.

mikethecop

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121182955#Comment_121182955

no Garda worth his or her badge would want the support of sfira , we are trying to prevent the decline of the country not accelerate it

Killinator

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121182858#Comment_121182858

As someone in the job watching more and more people leave year on year I can tell you that there is very much a recruitment and retention crisis!

The Government's target was to have 15,000 members, but instead we are gone below 14,000 and dropping.

end of the road

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121183177#Comment_121183177

they are going to be in government eventually so you are going to have to work with them.

mikethecop

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121183199#Comment_121183199

and isnt that just the nightmare for every decent Irish person out there . however bad the county is now just wait till its run by an actual organized crime gang

BlueSkyDreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121182858#Comment_121182858

Erm....sorry to break it to you, but there is a major recruitment and retention crisis and this move by the Commissioner will make it even worse.

We have also added 700,000 people (the population of Dublin City & Limerick City combined) to the countries population since 2012 and have effectivley the same number of Guards as we did back then.

The numbers have not grown with the population at all and the attrition rate is higher than ever.

end of the road

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121183212#Comment_121183212

no, it's not and the last election result and growing voter numbers show this.

at worst the non-organised crime gang will be another FFG.

BlueSkyDreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121183267#Comment_121183267

SF are still unlikley to get in, as long as FF close ranks on them again.

SF dont have enough for a majority. Luckily.

salonfire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121182955#Comment_121182955

Pity you didn't show the same support to the Gardai your crowd terrorised, maimed and killed.

Very telling what type of person you are. Support anything to do with industrial action, not quite as supportive when people were getting blown to pieces.

end of the road

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121184290#Comment_121184290

i support all gardai who have been killed in the country, regardless of circumstance.

Marty1983

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121170339#Comment_121170339

Tell that to management of nurses and doctors who routinely cover 12 hours.

pah

Imagine, hypothetically if Drew Harris actually behaved in a manner that was supportive of the organisation in the current situation? When pressed on the matter of morale and recruitment/retention he could very easily have acknowledged there was an issue and indicated that he wanted to investigate and establish the reasons for same etc instead of flat out denying on PRIME TIME TV what the dogs on the street know.

When asked about numbers he could be tactful - we're doing the best with what we have but, yes - we need more resources etc instead of trotting out the line "We have everything we need - we are grand" He's just shooting himself in the foot really because if he came across as any bit reasonable and understanding (which he absolutely does not) then a vote of no confidence would have never happened.

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121180641#Comment_121180641

Statistically the likelihood would be far less.

Beta Ray Bill

If you're a person has a problem with a Garda working a long shift then do yourself a favour, don't ever google how long a Doctor works in A&E (Loads of people work 12 hour shifts)

If you're a person has a problem the lack of policing/amount of little scrotes knocking about, then that's a problem with the legal system not the Garda.

You've a vote coming up soon, make sure you use it :)

suvigirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121184686#Comment_121184686

Exactly, I could never understand any commissioner stating everything is great, when it clearly isnt!

Why is it that they don't come out and tell government and even the general public what is lacking/required in order to run effectively? Just makes them look like yes men for the government, what about their organisation?

pah

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121185264#Comment_121185264

It's also part of the reason that it seems personal to Drew IMO. Gardaí have said that there is a morale problem in conjunction with recruitment and retention, backed up with figures and the testimony of members who are leaving left right and centre.

Drew Harris has basically told the membership they are full of sh1t, what did he expect?

Killinator

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121185264#Comment_121185264

They are in general 'yes men' for the government. The reason for that is because for people like him it's about the jump afterwards, if he nods his head like a good boy and doesn't cause trouble he'll get rewarded with a nice cushy position after his stint with the Gardai

Strumms

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121183222#Comment_121183222

That’s a majorly important point , a huge population explosion in next to no time…Ukranian and other situations guarantee that it will continue, yet no more Gardai.….no more prison places…. A pathetic way to manage and run the country..complete derogation of responsibility by our politicians…

Stretch1432

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121180797#Comment_121180797

You only have to cook food.

A modern guard has to be three professions rolled into one . They have to break bad news, babysit prisoners, deal with tusla and be mental health profesionals. Deal with aggressive people get spit on kicked, hit verbally abused. Listening to members of the public constantly whine and moan about trivial stuff like parking or having a problem with their neighbours fence.Spend days preparing a file after arresting a person who has multiple convictions only to see thug get away with a slap on the wrist. Attend the scene of horific suicides and road traffic collisons.

They are understaffed and under resourced the population has increased by 250000 but the numbers in Ags has increased.

Its a tough, thankless job where you are dammed if you do and dammed if you dont. Management and the public are against you every step you turn .

Your job is a walk in the park compared to what guards have to do.