Question for engineering or creative minds please

Ginger83

Hi all. I have motor neurone disease and am slowly losing the use of my arms. I enjoy a pint at home and I can drink 99% of things with a straw.

The issue is when I'm having a Guinness. I can't lift it with my arms anymore and because you drink through the head it's not possible with a straw.

I was wondering if one of you guys had any ideas on something to lift a glass and tilt it? Look I'm not looking for a terminators robot arm and probably won't live long enough to invest substantial funds into it but I just want to enjoy a pint.

Thanks

Rows Grower

Try a cold pint bottle of it, there'll be no going back.

Ginger83

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121152025#Comment_121152025

Would I not have the same problem?

Will_I_Regret

If you could jimmy up some kind of glass holder and bought an Arduino with a motor. You could set something up like that.

0ea887f4a1f2ee03aabf6ec3ab9951482f9b9db9.jpeg

Hijpo

You could use a stepper motor with some kind of winch gear that winds on a length of string attached to the bottom of the holder to tip the glass. Plenty of basic downloadable arduino projects as demos for easy implementation.

Simple switch changes the direction and enables the output.

Ginger83

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121152230#Comment_121152230

Thanks for your reply. Would you have a link to a suitable project?

the_amazing_raisin

The range of movement when you drink from a glass is actually pretty complicated when you think about it

You don't pivot the glass around the middle, you pivot it around where it meets your lips so you don't pour it down your chest

So you'd want a sort of cradle to hold the pint sitting on a frame. The cradle would hang from a hinge on the top corner of the frame and that's where you drink from

Probably want it a bit lower than your head so you bend over a bit to drink it. Bit odd but easier to avoid spillages

The cradle would have a string at the bottom to lift it up and pour when your mouth is at it

You could use motors, but it'd be tricky to get the movement and controls well calibrated

A simpler solution might be to use the macro movements of your body that you still have a reasonable degree of control over

A handle that you could put your arm or foot into which pulls the string to lift the glass should be easier to control when you want to take a drink

Or perhaps a pedal like an old sewing machine table

You probably want to fine tune the size of the pulleys so a larger movement of your arm/leg moves the glass a smaller amount. Removes the need for fine motor control

Could also have an electric version rigged to a single button. Press button to lift glass, release and it drops down again. As you drink more, hold the button longer every time to tilt the glass a bit extra

Ginger83

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121152333#Comment_121152333

Yes I'm losing the finer motor movements. I can get my hands around a glass but after a lift or two it feels like lifting a bag of coal

Ginger83

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121152094#Comment_121152094

Thanks for your reply

Hijpo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121152255#Comment_121152255

https://youtu.be/SdNtf6v8AZI?si=70bbd3D06NpwVf7n

A very quick look gave me this.

Code and component links in the description as well. Stepper and driver board.

Gives an explanation on how steppers work, probably don't need to know that but could be interesting.

mickdw

You have the ability to hold a glass for a drink or two. That gives a good idea of what you movement and strength is like at the minute.

Surely for now, and to keep it as simple as possible, all you need is something to hang the glass in front of your mouth. With pivot about 1/6 down the glass. It should then take alot less strength to just tilt the glass while resting on your lips.

JIdontknow

A more simple solution could be a sort of A frame. If you sit in a chair with sides (arm chair, wheel chair, kitchen chair) a triangle shaped piece with a pivoting cup / glass holder at the top. That allows you to tilt the triangle towards your mouth (supported on the arms of the chair so your only muscle action is pulling the simple light frame towards your mouth) but ensuring the glass is upright because the holder pivots. Then something perhaps a cord or simple mechanism to pull that pulls from towards the bottom of the holder tilting the glass for you to drink.

MrMusician18

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121152549#Comment_121152549

I think this is the best solution, stepper motors and arduinos are too complicated.

A pair of A frames supporting a crossbar with a drink cradle hanging from this. Attach a string and pulley system to bring the drink to the face and another cable and pulley to rotate the drink cradle to tip the glass.

It should be possible to create this from stuff available at the likes of a woodies.

Padre_Pio

Keep it simple.

Motors and arduinos are too complicated.

Take something that'll hold a glass, like one of those flexible goose neck arms, and make something that will pivot the glass around the rim. Use a lever,or wheel you can push with your arm to actuate the pivot.

As you lean in to take a sup, you just push the lever to tilt the glass.

Now, if you did want to get fancy, I'd hack a nitrosurge into a straw, so whenever you took a drink through the straw, the nitrosurge would give you a bit of a head.

CatFromHue

How about a modified straw? One that has the end of the straw below the water line but floats so that a small hole above the water line could let some of the head in with each sip.

I'm thinking if you cut a straw in half lengthways, flatten it out so you have a long narrow rectangle and then cut that into 3 or 4 smaller pieces. You could tape 1 or 2 of these pieces towards the end of your drinking straw and fold the ends of the new attached pieces so they're perpendicular to the drinking straw. They're mini floatation devices. Then above where the waterline is pierce the straw so you've a small hole in the head of the Guinness.

Obviously there's a lot of trial and error here to get it fully functional.

I'd a quick go at it and it is possible to get something that floats and keeps the small hole above the water line. A constant diameter glass will help here too as in the one I did the floatation devices got stuck as the glass narrows towards the bottom.

lostinsuperfunk

I am thinking something like an Anglepoise lamp mechanism might work for you. It would take away the heavy work of lifting a full pint glass, you would just have to guide it and tilt it. You could replace the lamp head with a ring to sit a glass into. A full pint glass is a bit heavier than a lamp head, so if you used an actual Anglepoise I think you might have to replace the springs with stronger ones.

There is a variant of the mechanism which uses a counterweight instead of a spring which might work better (see the wiki link below). One problem is that the weight of your glass will decrease as you drink it, so it would get harder to control as it empties. It might help to use a heavier than normal glass so that the liquid makes up a smaller proportion of the overall weight of (glass plus liquid). The base might also need to have additional weight to keep it stable.

You can buy Anglepoise or similar lamps secondhand on adverts or ebay.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balanced-arm_lamp

Someone has even built a mechanism in Lego: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PcBl9cXVKaU

Mellor

Some very over compilated solutions here. Stepper motors, winches, etc.

A much simpler option would be a simple harness and pully with a counter balance. You could basically make the pint glass close to weightless so you can move it.

You shouldn't actually gulp the head with a pint of gluiness though, you'll get tiny amounts, but your mostly tilt the glass to get the black stuff underneath. When you get to the end of good pint, the head is mostly still there - and a large part of the reduction is due to bubbles bursting.

To keep it simple, I'd try it with a large gauge straw. When you stick it into the pint, you'll take up a bit of head too, Remove and reinsert every sip.

electricus

I was thinking along the same lines but with a studio microphone arm. Something like this

https://rode.com/en/accessories/stands-bars/psa1-plus

They’re counter balanced so can be moved with minimal effort and hold a 1kg mic at the same angle when articulated.

A glass might work with the right clamp, adjusted for easy tilt, maybe based on this:

Hijpo

Chap said he was losing the use of his arms, at some point he's going to need something to move the glass for him.

Small bit of difficulty now getting a stepper motor rig going will last him the duration of his illness. He could be in a situation where boom arms and A frames won't work after a week.

Not sure how people see a stepper motor and an arduino as being overly complex, they are teaching this stuff to 10 year olds. Schematics, hardware and software is all laid out.

Also, apologies for bypassing your story OP, very sorry to hear you are not well.

Andrea B.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058315239/question-for-engineering-or-creative-minds-please

Hi Ginger.

Sorry you are going through this.

I am inherently lazy, with an engineering mindset, so sometimes come up with simple solutions to allow me feed my laziness😁

When you have your pint, are you sitting at a table like that in a kitchen, with a solid chair, or couch or mobility chair/wheelchair, or other?

Is it always in the same location in home? As in, if it was a pole fixed to table/floor/ceiling/wall...

I feel that we may be looking at something with a very rigid superstructure.

I have discounted anglepoise frames, because the moments from a pint in motion and counter forces from mouth of a drinker, just seem to be a recipe for a mess.

electricus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121153167#Comment_121153167

Of course, I was suggesting the arm as a starting point for other ideas. I had a quick look and it looks like a motorised/ robotic versions of what I was thinking already exists, like this (no pricing but probably expensive):

https://www.medicalexpo.com/prod/assistive-innovations-bv/product-108105-786629.html

Hopefully the OP can find something that works.

Padre_Pio

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121153167#Comment_121153167

It's not complex to move a stepper with arduino.

But the human factors are very difficult. Tipping the glass at the right speed to get a sip, but not too much.. sometimes you want a gulp, sometimes you want a small sip. The liquid in the glass moves at different speeds depending on the tilt angle etc etc.

Andrea B.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121153531#Comment_121153531

Nice find.

If I knew someone working for Guiness/Diageo, I would flag this worthy cause as opportunity to spend some spare change on helping Ginger out.

Alongside the kit you have identified, I have no doubt that a big corporate could search for a solution.

Ginger83

Thanks for all your replies. A little more information that might help.

I have MND 8 years. I can hold my hands around a glass however I would not be able to hold a pen or toothbrush. I use an electric wheelchair so I have 2 options when having a pint. I can sit in my wheelchair at the kitchen table and see the tv or I can go to my room where I use an old laptop on my lap, my Ryanair table as I call it. I have no problems drinking liquids and I have very good head movement.

I don't think I drink enough Guinness to ask about sponsorship haha

Slightly Kwackers

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121156710#Comment_121156710

As a matter of interest how do you get the Guinness into the glass?

The care and steadiness to prevent a vesuvius would present the problem I would have thought?

I well recollect that after a heavy weeks "celebrating" in my more stupid days, not wanting to call attention to the two handed steer the pint pot to my mouth, I developed the snatch and launch approach. I didn't generally miss my mouth.

I suppose it's maybe a shade different, but nonetheless, I would find the initial filling of the glass near impossible without a degree of strength and accuracy. If I were served with a bottle and an empty glass my drinking would have been a tad hit & miss :-(

Could you already have the answer?

Ginger83

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121157445#Comment_121157445

Hi my wife normally pulls a pint for me and leaves me to watch the football etc

Some variant of this type of set-up is what’s needed, I guess.

Andrea B.

Dunno on sponsor side. They're all human too and have access to social responsibility funds...

Anyhow, thanks for extra info. Thinking PC monitor pole clamp to table as a starting point.

Would your kitchen table be able to support a g-clamp? Like it's not plastic or glass?

Ginger83

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121166281#Comment_121166281

I would say so as it's a wooden table.

the_amazing_raisin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121160856#Comment_121160856

How do you fill it? One of those taps with a hose built in maybe 🤔

the_amazing_raisin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121166281#Comment_121166281

Actually monitor arm is a great idea, could get one of the hydraulic ones so no need to tighten screws to get it to stay

They support heavy monitors all day so a pint glass if Guinness should be easy

Could also attach it to the chair, although having mobile Guinness wherever you go could be a bit too tempting 😁

Andrea B.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121170256#Comment_121170256

In fairness some other posters have suggested similar too regards anglepoise and microphone arm up above in other posts.

Just started looking at gas spring monitor arms and they would likely cover somes axes.

If we envisage a pint glass in a cradle at lip level, it needs to raise at back, with fulcrum close to and below glass rim, to be drunk from.

Ideas?

Ginger. Hate asking, but you said it is a lifting issue.

But could you envisage having strength to squeeze a rubber bulb (think blood pressure type of old) lying on a table connected to tube, to tilt glass each time?

Thinking this way, as air is a good way to dampen and absorb shakes.

Ginger83

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121170421#Comment_121170421

Hi i have very poor grip. My illness is progressive so I could lift a pint with one hand and then started needing two hands but as my arms get weaker the glass feels heavier and heavier.

Andrea B.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121170633#Comment_121170633

Ok I am sorry. I really think we can work something.

Ginger83

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121170660#Comment_121170660

It is what it is. I've lived beyond the expectancy but I'm still eating very well and I intend to enjoy food and drink while my swallowing is good 😊

the_amazing_raisin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121170660#Comment_121170660

Maybe a foot pedal instead, or a air bag that you could press an elbow down onto?

I'm thinking something that doesn't require a lot of fine motor control but still allows for precise control

Maybe even just a long handle would be enough, it's got a lot of leverage so doesn't require significant strength, and also a large movement of the handle translates to a smaller tilt of the cradle and glass, so easy to control

Ginger83

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121170881#Comment_121170881

I like your idea of the handle that doesn't require fine motor control. I don't suppose you have a sketch in your head?

the_amazing_raisin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121170954#Comment_121170954

I have it in my head but I'm afraid to put it to paper given my drawing skills 😂

I'll see what I can do tomorrow

But if you imagine something like a monitor arm with a cradle on it like @Andrea B. described, then just a long handle coming out the bottom

You put the glass in the cradle, then when you want a drink you rotate the arm to bring the glass towards your face then push the lever at the bottom to tilt the glass and take a drink

When you're done you just release the lever and the glass tilts back to vertical, and push the arm out of the way so it doesn't obstruct the TV

This is probably a good example of the kind of arm I'm speaking about

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B09963RQ6Y?ref_=cm_sw_r_apan_dp_FZ8KC2JJJA92X09E0904

The "elbow" pivots around the vertical axis, so it's fairly easy to rotate the cradle to and from you when you want a drink

funkey_monkey

@Ginger83 - there is a charity in the UK called Remap:

https://remap.org.uk/

They have a branch in Northern Ireland. They may well have encountered this before and either have something for you to purchase or to 'donate' for or get sketches for building yourself.

Maybe you should contact them? They might even know if there is an equivalent in Ireland. Or a user here could get in contact for you and build it.

How it works out and you get something sorted.

kirving

With the best will in the world to those who have suggests, messing about with Arduino's and stepper motors to generate a usable, safe device is fraught with problems. Power supplies, chargers, batteries, waterproofing, etc. Off the shelf is the only way to go.

The cheapest way to get something to tilt a glass, in my opinion would be to buy a second hand camera gimbal.

You need to be able to make at least two movements.

1) rotate the glass about it's rim which the gimbal can do, with a modified mount for the glass rather than camera. Some even have remote controls.

2) move the glass horizontally to come closer to your mouth. For this I think the best option might to be used a spring loaded, but tall pole. Like what is used on some signs to allow them to comply with the wind. It would move in an arc, yes, but would be simple, and the camera gimbal would keep the pint level as you pulled it toward you.

For a trial, you could rent a DJI gimbal from a number of different photography shops around the country. It would then need some testing, in order to position the pint correctly (ie: as neutrally buoyant as possible, while rotating about the rim)

https://www.mpb.com/en-eu/product/dji-rsc-2/sku-2087309?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=EU%7CGoogle%7CBuy%7CPmax%7CNew%7CPmax%7CAll%7CAll%7CIE%7CEN&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIzP_Owb7PgQMVSeLtCh3qkw7YEAQYASABEgLbavD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

To be honest, this is a prime time of year too, to approach any nearby engineering colleges, who I'm sure would be more than happy to help out with 3D printing, some machining, and give someone a project out of it, and importantly help others in future. Where are you based?

Ginger83

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121171905#Comment_121171905

I'm in Cavan but not too far from Meath

Capt'n Midnight

https://hackaday.com/2023/09/27/hackaday-prize-2023-an-anti-tremor-handle-with-no-electronics/

mechanical anti-tremor cup handle. see pdf pages 14-16

Another gimbal - repurposing a handheld camera stabilizing gimbal to hold a soldering iron might not hold a pint

Ginger83

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121171769#Comment_121171769

Hi i have been in touch but unfortunately they cannot help

funkey_monkey

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121185499#Comment_121185499

Did they say why - geographical reasons or they had nothing suitable?

Ginger83

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121185771#Comment_121185771

They are only in the UK but also said insurance wouldn't let them make something capable of lifting hot liquids.

Fair point

funkey_monkey

Sod that.

I hope some of the engineering minds on here can get something sorted for you.

Have you tried contacting Guinness directly?

Ginger83

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121186640#Comment_121186640

I thought someone was joking but I will email them.

funkey_monkey

Keep us updated.

Ginger83

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121186768#Comment_121186768

I have emailed Guinness and Diageo so you'd never know

Turbulent Bill

Would you consider a non nitro-headed stout (like O'Haras in bottles) as an alternative to Guinness? Might make it easier to have the pint in a fixed position, with a straw for drinking.

If your fine motor skills are degrading, I think anything that involves positioning or leveraging the pint might become very frustrating over time. Lots of spilled beer and swearing, neither due to the football! Powered options will be overly complex and still not replicate the supping-a-pint motion. Something simple like a straw might help you retain both beer and some autonomy.

Best of luck with this, really hope you find something that works for you.

Ginger83

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121195822#Comment_121195822

I would be willing to try some. MND can be incredibly frustrating.